Using Car Diesel Engine as Stationary for Generator

What is it to be coupled to?

Given there are two output shafts, how is the second shaft to be disabled?

Why use an engine such as this when package gensets are available?

Given there are two output shafts, how is the second shaft to be disabled?

??

The OP is likely to power the generator from the flywheel.

I'd guess that you are thinking of the "output shafts" being the drive shafts to the wheels. No need for the transmission losses, weight, and complexity of that.

I know this is an older thread, but I actually signed up for the forum just make a to reply to it!

As it happens, I have done this -- well, almost...

I did not use a diesel engine, I used a gasoline engine out of the neighbor's 1974 Datsun (with his permission) -- as well as the radiator, the gas tank, engine mounts, muffler, and assorted gauges (tachometer, fuel, et cetera). I mounted it on a Harbor Freight 4-foot by 4-foot trailer with sides and a top; split the trailer into two compartments (engine and generator). I used motorcycle chain and a couple of sprockets to couple it up. A simple adapter mounted the smaller, driven sprocket, to the generator; some "standoffs" set up to bolt to the original flywheel in place of the clutch pressure plate, mounted the larger driving sprocket. I put a steel plate as the "floor" in the generator compartment and made some adjustable "slide mount" channels (with threaded rod for super-fine" adjustments).

On top of all of this, I put an aftermarket, diaphragm-type cruise control. Magnets bolted to the driving sprocket provided pulses for a "speed sensor." I set up the gear ratios so that the engine turns about 500 RPM "above idle" -- just enough that the Cruise Control had some "margin" to work with. Overall, the system worked excellently -- until, after 16 years, the cruise control died. In fact, I am in the middle of replacing the cruise control with an "electronic" (Rostra) unit. I found this thread while searching for additional information on how to hook up this [more complex] electronic servo cruise control unit.

The one question I particularly wanted to address was the following:

> Why use an engine such as this when package gensets are available?

There are a number of factors that lead me to do this.

1. Everything was "free" (okay, I put about $500 1998 dollars into making it work -- the cost of the trailer, the cruise control, and a 10KW generator on sale; but the engine and other "car parts" were had for "sweat equity").

2. Start up a typical 10KW generator, stand right next to it, and try to have a "normal" conversation. This unit, running at about 1150 rpm, is roughly the same noise level as the original car running just "off idle" -- you can talk or work in its vicinity -- or park it under your bedroom window and still sleep through the night -- but, be sure the window is closed against exhaust fumes lest you not wake up in the morning ;-)

3. The HP is a total overkill for the system. Whereas most "gensets" have engines sized to be just "large enough," this puppy is just loafing when the generator is fully loaded -- and it is loafing at relatively low RPM. As a result, the wear factor on the engine is practically zero. When I was a kid, we had a spray rig built on the same principle (Model A engine). It was still going strong after more than 50 years of relatively hard use with only basic (oil change & tune up) maintenance. Treated right, the engine will likely outlive the owner.

4. The unit seems to "run forever" on a tank of gas.

5. It is all complete and on a trailer. With the balance between the engine and the generator (and steel plate) it rolls and tows quite well. It takes about 30 seconds to fire it up and set the speed (well, it did before the cruise control died) and, except for the actual generator, ALL of the maintenance parts and supplies are automotive or motorcycle -- and available at NAPA, CarQuest, et cetera. As a bonus, I have a 12v accessory plug, 12 volt lights, the ability to "jump start" motor vehicles, et cetera.

6. The driven sprocket has a second sprocket attached to it. I have enough space to mount one, possibly two, more generators and daisy-chain these additional generators with more chain. If I can get the new cruise control to work, I could build this out to 20KW or 30KW (in 10KW increments) without breaking a sweat. (Technically, figuring a 20% conversion loss, it takes about 17hp to run a 10KW generator; I have 80hp at my disposal.)

7. Finally, given how much "fun" I had building it, why would one not use an engine such as this?

GA

Really interesting.

Larry, I would very much be interested in what info you have on this set up. I am in the process of trying to do this myself. I want to use the 2.0 Volkswagen motor and power about 30 kW if it's possible. I did find to use a Pierce company governor to control engine speed/load like that of cruise control(which is a good idea). I was also told to direct drive this if I use a 1800 rpm generator. I'm going to steel frame, then rubber bushing mount for vibration. I have aluminum cell to use for fuel tank. Would like to find to find a dual pass cooler to flow water through to absorb heat to send to geothermo system to heat house. Again ideas appreciated, and bounce some back at you. Thanks

I think when you priced everything out to adapt that engine and the associated head-aches to do so, it would be cheaper and more reliable to just buy a gen-set. Simplemind did a pretty good job of listing all the components needed to make it run other than one important item, a governor to maintain the load.

Thank you, so far. Your answer completes the listing of components needeed for running a car diesel on gen and quite as you point out, a governor is needeed to maintain the running speed on variations of load. But if, as we've learned from earlier answers, the complete car control electronics is to be taken in use, can't we leave the job of the governor for the allready included speed control unit, which in car usage takes care of using more power while going uphill and releases the engine to idle while running downhill, thus keeping the speed at say 60 or what ever desired?

The original question of using car diesel on stationary purposes included another aspect concerning the possibility of using common rail diesel electronic control units. These CRD ECUs can be found on internet from several manufacturer, but can anyone tell us others how simple they are to attach into this kind of solutions? How detailed manuals are included for mounting to specific brands of diesels? Do these have some kind of governor function included?

What, are you including the Cruise Control? I guess that could work as your governor

I need to add a note; the cruise control won't be as responsive as a governor set-up

Here is what I did. I have a Izuzu Pup truck that I got from my sister inlaw. I cut the bed off and made her a nice trailer. Then I took my 25,000 watt Generator and set it on a frame I made. I welded the frame to the truck frame, then ran the drive shaft to the gen. I left everything in the truck hooked up. I installed a hand throttle that locks. I place the transmission in neutral, start the 4 cylinder diesel, and let it warm up. Once warm, I push in the clutch, and put it in gear. Then I set the hand throttle to give me 750 rpm. Now my gen is running full out as specified. I always know what is going on by checking the gauges, and if I want too, I can listen to the radio. Bye leaving the front wheels on, and welding them solid, I can tow it where ever I need it.Hope this helps you, it did me. Bob KC0VEA

Diesel engine control systems for automobiles are optimized for variable speed operation, while governors for generators are designed for constant speed independent of load. These are completely different animals. If you are willing to run out and adjust the speed of your generator every time, say, a refrigerator compressor kicks in, you can get away with this scheme. If you are only planning on using the generator to supply a constant load, say, a pump, then you could get away with this. Otherwise, the best thing to do would be rip out all of the engine controls and replace them with a conventional generator governor, which is designed to maintain a constant speed under varying load conditions.

I hear and fully understand what you are saying, but surely it would be possible to program a PIC (plus interfacing) to maintain a set speed and by adding an extra heavy flywheel, the engine will no longer change speed quite so quickly.

All the alternators (2.5MW) and generators (20,000 Amps) I ever worked on had very heavy flywheels....

What do you think?

Andy-

I am in full agreement with you. My original comment, perhaps not clearly articulated, was intended to point out that most of the electronics on a modern diesel engine are unnecessary and overly complicated for a constant-speed application. They are not needed. The basic diesel engine can be reconfigured to run properly with much simpler controls for the generator application.

One does, however, need to give some consideration to the nature of the load. Governor control for a relatively stable, single purpose load (i.e., pumping water) can be much simpler than, say, a system intended to run an air conditioner or a refrigerator or an arc welder...

If I was using a more modern setup on this pickup, I would agree with you. BUT, this truck was made in I think, 1980, and the generator is a WINCO we use in the milk barn when the power is off. It was originally designed to be run by a tractor PTO at 750 rpm. It has worked very well the few times I have had to depend on it. I normally rely on my 8000 watt inverter for my main power, which is run into a step up transformer before it reaches the main fuse box. Hope this clears everything up about my set up. Bob KC0VEA

Your 1980 pickup most likely had very little of the modern electronics found in transport applications. If one goes back in history, one of the reasons the Ford Model T was so popular, especially in rural areas, was the availability of after market power takeoff systems, which the farmer could buy from Sears (most likely the same place he bought his Model T). Were I to have the need to run a generator from an automotive diesel, I would discard all of the electronics and devise a much simpler governor (I recall one installation where the owner had his clothes line attached to his governor- he adjusted the speed of his generator by hanging more clothes on the line. Not an approach I would necessarily recommend to most).

However- 750 rpm sounds a bit low for generating purposes- higher speeds respond faster to load changes (which probably has something to do with why most commercial diesel powered plants run at 1800 rpm rather than 1200 rpm, which was standard a few years ago).

You are quite right about the generator speed being low, but what I failed to mention was the gear box mounted on the front of the Winco gen. I don`t know what the gear ratio is, but it turns at a maximum of 750 rpms, but the gen is turning much faster. I was also told by some old timers around here that is was constant speed. When I asked what that was, they said it turns the same speed to light a light bulb, or running a welder. Anyway, it has worked very well for me, and will probably continue to do so for many years to come. The constant speed is why so many farmers like it when running on a tractor pto. Bob KC0VEA

Is possible to buy a governor like "governors of america" a small one.Electronics or not those works commonly on the speed lever of the injection pump.If you do some,try don't touch its own devices, adapt your control system to the speed wire or lever!-

In India it is very common that, Ahok Leyland Truck Diesel engine is used as Standby DG set. Accelerator is fixed to give 1500 RPM; Radiator size is increased. There not much electronics in this type of engine.

I've often thought a normally aspirated VW diesel (1.6L) would make a nice standby genset power source. I would couple it to a four-pole generator so it could run at 1,800 RPM and at that speed, the engine would darn near last forever. There are no electronic controls to worry about and parts are still readily available. The 1.6L produces around 75 ft-lbf of torque at 2,000 RPM so it seems like you could easily spin a 15kW to 20kW generator. If you wanted to rev it to 3,600 RPM you could get 40kW out of it but it wouldn't last as long. The tricky part would be coupling a mechanical governator (I'll be back after the affair) to the injection pump.

Or . . .

You might be able to modify the Bosch injection pump to lower the governor RPM to 1,800 and just run it WOT after warm-up.

Good luck with your quest.