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Active Contributor

Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 23
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Need a Lot of Hot Water!!!

08/15/2011 3:59 PM

Presently the water is being heated with steam. There are two applications

800 GPM

400 GPM

Temperature rise 35 - 190 deg F

The steam system is in poor repair and a new boiler is needed. In order to keep down the size of the boiler(s), the plant would like to take these two applications off of the potential load so a smaller boiler(s) can be purchased. The job is presently being accomplished by two large hot water storage tanks heated by steam. The steam comes from a very inefficient boiler plant that would be dismantled. It is over a mile away from the application and the steam main would need to be re insulated, so the new boilers will be placed closer to the application. We are considering a more "instantaneous" solution.

These loads will not be part of the new boiler-house. I've looked at direct fired heaters, but will probably need several for each application. I've considered a hot water boiler, but I don't think this is the right application for it as the water is completely utilized by the process and not recirculated. Real estate is a problem as well. If the storage tanks are kept in play, we can spread the load out over time, but the tanks are leaky and the sparging is inefficient. The room for the solution would be recovered by removing the tanks, but if we can't remove the tanks...

Any ideas on possible ways to do this?

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#1

Re: Need a Lot of Hot Water!!!

08/15/2011 8:09 PM

How about a few of these?

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Commentator

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#2

Re: Need a Lot of Hot Water!!!

08/15/2011 11:06 PM

Do the processes fluctuate in the need (flow) for hot water? The first thing that comes to mind is a series (probably several series) of tankless gas-fired water heaters. They are available for commercial applications up to about 15 GPM/unit. Though to economize with your temp rise I would look to preheating the incoming water to at least ambient temp before running through the heaters (160°F rise is a lot). If you have good sunlight available you might also consider solar to do some of the preheating. The footprint of something like this should be smaller than what you have now.

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Guru

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#3

Re: Need a Lot of Hot Water!!!

08/16/2011 6:19 AM

For instantaneous supply: 800gpm and Delta temp of 155°F will require somewhere near 18 MW of power (Steam or electric). This is big and diificult to handle without a storage tank. An 18MW boiler is Big!

Therefore, If the flow requirement is not continuous (24hrs a day), then a smaller boiler (to be sized according to the usage...) could be used but you will require a storage tank (size also depends on the flow requirement etc.)

from compacness point of view, maybe you could look at Electrode Boilers(!?).

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Guru

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#4

Re: Need a Lot of Hot Water!!!

08/16/2011 8:35 AM

This might work: http://www.thermaxindia.com/Packaged-Boilers/Hot-Water-Generator/Aquamatic.aspx

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#5

Re: Need a Lot of Hot Water!!!

08/16/2011 11:16 AM

I considered the Armstrong units, and they are not off the table, but I'd need 7 of largest ones to cover both applications and I'm not certain there is enough room for all of that. In addition, they publish an outlet temperature of 185. I've been told they can be "tweeked" to deliver 190, but if they can deliver 190, then why not publish 190? If it's outside the comfort zone, then I have performance concerns.

Presently the applications are being handled by a 20,000 gallon tank and about 10,000 gallon tank. This gives about 25 minutes of stoarge and drives the heat requirement down to 2,680,000 BTU/hr, which is much easier to deal with. We might be stuck with the tanks.

Thanks for supplying brain power. The load has to go somewhere, I fear. I needed to make sure I wasn't missing the invention of some exothermic, self-perpetuating energy source. I'll lay this out for the plant and see which devil they wish to pay.

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Need a Lot of Hot Water!!!

08/16/2011 11:46 AM

Actually both processes are for rinse water so it's once through and done.

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#10
In reply to #7

Re: Need a Lot of Hot Water!!!

08/17/2011 12:30 AM

Do you have one big process/rinse station, or are there several? If you have several then a tankless series at/near each station would a viable option. In addition to the solar, you have a real opportunity to recapture that wasted heat and you can preheat the incoming water with it - I think if it is done right you can get close to room temp. resulting in a big savings no matter what your heating application.

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#6

Re: Need a Lot of Hot Water!!!

08/16/2011 11:34 AM

Well, obviously you have a big problem with heat losses, and that would be a very important task in order to make your process profitable and support future investment in new equipment.

We have a very little information about your plant processes, I mean, you are using hot water to heat "something", but at the end of the process, must of the processes or the products must to be cooled and there are heat to recover. So, this could be an interesting oportunity to have or improve a heat recovery system.

But as I said, depends on the process an the product....

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#8

Re: Need a Lot of Hot Water!!!

08/16/2011 3:39 PM

Not sure where you are located but have you considered using solar for pre-heating coupled with large storage capacity as a means to reduce your instantaneous heat demand?

I installed a solar recovery system up in Northern Arizona and was able to reach water temperatures of 205 F with a mean average of 160 F. The only real issue we had was that during overcast and/or stormy days the collection panels were reduced to 30% efficiency and we had to offset the heat loss with standby, redundant heating units. The overall operational savings was 43% with a payback in 5 years.

Today's "Green" energy incentives might make it enticing to say the least.

Do you have access to any "waste" heat left over from any on-site process that you could tap with a heat exchanger? (equipment cooling, boiler exhaust, turbine or jet engine exhaust,etc.)

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Participant

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#9

Re: Need a Lot of Hot Water!!!

08/16/2011 5:46 PM

My suggestion is that you look at the products manufactured by Gasmaster Industries their website is www.gasamster.ca . They manufacture boilers and water heater upto 12 million btu/hr input. Their water heaters are instantenous and you will not require storage tanks. According to my load calculation you need a total input of 64 million btu/hr. This company also manufactures 8 million btu/hr boilers and water heaters. This will reduce the number of units you need to install to 6 or 8 units depending on the model you select.Their heat exchanger is made entirely of 316L stainless steel and their efficiencies can go as high as 99.8%. Their units are really compact and will sovle your real estate issue.

For the smaller application you will need 3 or 4 units max.I hope this helps. If you need to contact them you can call them on <phone number removed> or email at

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