Previous in Forum: Swing Bender - Folding Steel Plate   Next in Forum: silensor
Close
Close
Close
6 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 393
Good Answers: 21

P.E. Welding

04/21/2007 4:16 AM

I have experience of both butt welding and E.F. welding of polyethelene. In the past we have butt welded our bigger pipes of aprox 250-315mm but now we are about to start a new build and the company is very keen on electrofusion.

They see it as an easy option and because we wont need to hire in a contractor or a butt welding machine they see it as cost cutting.

However I spoke to an "expert" from Norway who strongly advised butt welding saying that E.F. joints don't have the same longevity as butt welds. These pipes once installed, will be in place for at least 25 years. I have seen E.F. joints which were done at least 10 years ago and they seem fine. Is this guy just trying to score a contract or does he have a point?

P.S. The pipes will be layed over ground carrying raw sea water. Temperature range of water about 8 degrees celcius and temperature change of where I am is only about 20 degrees celcius. Pipes will be subject to very little vibration and will be in the order of 100m runs.

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru
Hobbies - HAM Radio - New Member United Kingdom - Big Ben - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Altair 8800 - New Member Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3968
Good Answers: 120
#1

Re: P.E. Welding

04/21/2007 11:34 PM

The woods are alive with links.

On the surface they will be easy to fix. Any risk of freezing?

Drill down into thses and see what you find. Some reports on comparing the two.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=electrofusion+%2Bpolyethylene

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22butt+welding%22+%2Belectrofusion+%2Bpolyethylene&btnG=Search

__________________
Per Ardua Ad Astra
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Systems Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Model Rocketry - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Long.92E,Lat.26N
Posts: 1336
Good Answers: 14
#2

Re: P.E. Welding

04/22/2007 2:07 PM

Do you mean Ultrasonic high-frequency-- and call it E.F?

And do you mean 'Heat to almost melting and Upset-Press' what you call "Butt Weld".

If so you need to read this and further>>>>:

The welding characteristics of a 67 kHz ultrasonic plastic welding system using fundamenta! and higher-resonance-frequency vibrations were studied and compared with those of the 27 kHz and 40 kHz systems. At high frequency, welding characteristics were improved due to the larger vibration loss of plastic materials. The 67 kHz welding tip vibrates at a maximum velocity of more than 2.3 m/s (peak-to-zero value) at a fundamental resonance frequency and there me several higher resonance frequencies up to 94 kHz whose vibration velocities are more than one-fourth that of the fundamental frequency. The welding characteristics of lapped 1.0-mm-thick polypropylene sheets were measured for the cases where the vibration system was driven using combined driving voltages of both fundamental and higher resonance frequencies. The welded area and weld strength increased when fundamental and higher resonance frequencies were driven simultaneously. The welding characteristics of the 67 kHz ultrasonic plastic welding system were improved significantly compared with those of 27 kHz and 40 kHz welding systems by driving fundamental and higher resonance frequencies simultaneously

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 393
Good Answers: 21
#4
In reply to #2

Re: P.E. Welding

04/24/2007 3:55 AM

Thanks for the info but I meant electrofusion for E.F. I did mention this at the end of the first paragraph. Butt welding is the only phrase I have ever known for the type of welding I was talking about. This is done by melting the two ends of the pipe and pressing together. Because polyethelene is a thermoplastic it welds together. This is done either by a computerised machine or with hydraulic clamps and charts telling you the pressure and time for welding.

Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Gillette, Wyoming USA
Posts: 19
#3

Re: P.E. Welding

04/22/2007 11:55 PM

I have been involved in the installation of literally hundreds of miles PE pipe for use in low pressure natural gas transmission and water transport. I definately recommend using butt welds and not electrofusion. The cost of the electrofuse collars is very high...also the automated machine to do it right is quite expensive in itself. The electrofuse joint usually takes 2-4 times longer than an butt weld and is not able to be visually checked for quality like the butt weld.

__________________
There are three kinds of people in this world...those who are good at math and those who aren't.
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#5

Re: P.E. Welding

08/22/2007 6:46 AM

Both butt welding and E/F welding will give the same system lifetimes if carried out correctly. Generally butt fusion is used for long straight pipe runs and if Automatic Butt Fusion is used there is very little operator input, therefore the consistancy and quality of the weld is high. Electrofusion is generally used for repairs, "in trench" work, connections at the end of pipe runs (flanges etc). Electrofusion relies more on operator skill as the joint preperation is a manual process, scraping, alignment, etc.

If you are using 6 or 12 metre sticks, suggest you stick with butt fusion, if you are using coils the E/F joints are easier and the equipment requirement is smaller.

Register to Reply
Participant

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1
#6
In reply to #5

Re: P.E. Welding

08/22/2007 6:58 AM

Sorry forgot to register on my last response, if you have any other questions about EF or BF let me know.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 6 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (1); aurizon (1); MACA (1); MUKULMAHANT (1); sheffield lad (1); WyoPatriot (1)

Previous in Forum: Swing Bender - Folding Steel Plate   Next in Forum: silensor

Advertisement