Proprietary CVT Fluid

You need legal advice, not engineering advice.

A friend of mine had similar problems he had with a pickup truck with the dealership of a different foreign (to the US) vehicle manufacturer. He had the truck towed and legally parked in front of the dealership with a big sign in the back saying "This dealership does not honor warranties!" or something to that effect. This generated a different tempest of bad feelings that reached the local news services. The parent company then some how heard about the battle and stepped in. The truck was repaired at a different dealership (not for free but my friend was both satisfied and unwilling to explain). Within a year the recalcitrant dealership lost their franchise from that manufacturer. This whole saga took close to a year.

I hope that you don't have to go through this much of a nightmare but it can and has happened.

My sister resolved a warranty issue (requiring a replacement engine) only after contacting the California Bureau of Automotive Repair.

I imagine there are similar resources in other states. Other countries...?

You can put in any tranny fluid you want, it won't have any different 'specs' than any others. tranny fluid is tranny fluid, no matter what brand. I would take from what bob c said, and do something about it. They just want to rip you off, and make you think it was your fault for it.

Plus if it is chemically tested to be exactly the same, then it was definitely not because of that. If I were you, I'd do what the guy in bob c's story did. But warn them first, so they have a chance to change their mind, and just follow through with the warranty. Give them their 2 options:

1. Follow through with the warranty, and you will only spread good news about them.

or

2. You stand outside their lot, and tell people going in to look at the cars about what happened to you until the tranny is fixed.

Good luck! :)

There is no reason to be so judge-mental.

If you don't like my advice, then ignore it. I was just trying to help.. Because, really, what is the difference between tranny fluids? THEY ALL DO THE SAME THING, and people like you don't understand that, because all you're good at doing is reading labels and forum posts. No offense.

No offense taken. But you are still wrong.

Ask your local mechanic, and prove yourself wrong.

Because my car is running on a mix of 2 tranny fluids, some of what the car was sold to me with, and some meant for a Plymouth voyager. It still runs exactly the same, and It's gone through over 5,000 miles with that so far. (2001 Saturn coupe 3dr sc1). Plus when I changed the oil, I used different oil than what is intended for it. The car runs probably exactly the same as it did 10 years ago.

Did you even read the original question here? his daughters nissan transmission broke after only 1700 miles of the fluid change, my car has run almost triple that much, with no problems. Plus I mistreat mine.

The only reason the fluid would have destroyed the transmission is if they accidentally put manual transmission fluid in, or didn't put enough fluid in. Unless if there is a leak.

Or it is possible that they didn't clean the pan before putting it back up.

Basically, as long as they used automatic transmission fluid, the car wouldn't have had any problems. ESPECIALLY that early.

Hey, how is the transmission linkage on your Camaro?

I bolted the linkage back up to where it should be, but I'm not sure yet whether that was the only problem. I want to get the exhaust on before I start it up again, and take it for a test drive. The neighbors don't like how loud it is lol. Being that it's dual exhaust, and such a huge engine, It even hurts my ears while it's running!

The guy I bought it from was putting cherry bomb mufflers on. He only had one side on when I bought it, but I had to take that down.. It was not hanging right AT ALL. He was re-doing the whole exhaust, so instead of being more of an X shape, like it's supposed to be on these cars, he was setting it up to be 2 straight pipes all the way.

Thanks for asking!

No, not all transmission fluids are the same. They don't all do the same thing. The most extreme difference is the relatively sticky 90W gear oil of a 50's era manual transmission and today's highly slick but self coating fluid of a modern automatic transmission with a lock up torque converter.

I'm with Lyn on this.......tranny fluids are NOT all the same by a long shot.

Would you go to the Pharmacist and tell him just give you anything....they are really all the same anyway. Drugs are drugs after all.

No you wouldn't.......and while I'm at it...it applies to oil, antifreeze, brake fluid, power steering fluid and just about everything else.

Ok, let me put your example a different way.

you have a headache, so you go get medicine for that. There are different brands that some use a few different ingredients to take care of the headache with, right? Well of course you're going to get the stuff that you think would fit best with your headache. Although, each of them would have done the same thing, you chose that certain one. They would have all done the same thing -- like the fluids in your car. If you want transmission fluid for your 2007 Nissan, it would probably be best to use what is made specifically for it, but still.. any other transmission fluid would have done the same thing.

And this does apply with oil, brake fluid, and power steering. Maybe antifreeze too, but I don't really know much about that.

We're not talking about the marketing brand differences between a Mobil, Castrol or Valvoline version of ATF or Dextron transmission fluid. We're talking about the difference between ATF, Mercon, SP-III and Dextron. These difference can affect seal integrity, the amount of fluid that reaches different crevices, the amount and size of debris that will be suspended and how hydrophobic the fluid will be.

No....you aren't getting it kevin12340. They are drastically different. Not simply having slightly different additives. To the point using the wrong one in the wrong transmission WILL most certainly cause a failure, not maybe, not possibly, but most definately. Its not at all like compairing headache medicine.

You don't run 0W40 in a '69 corvette, you don't put 20W50 in a Rolls Royce Turbine. You don't put oil for gasolene engines in a diesel engine.

Put the wrong brake fluid type in your car and you will find yourself without brakes. Put the wrong antifreeze in the car you will find yourself walking.

No it HAS to be the right type.....any other transmission fluid type will NOT do the job.

Types are not brands.

But you can continue to believe as you wish.....Transmission shops can use the extra work. Just don't blame anyone else when the transmission fails when you do it.

Word of advice......don't ever buy an older British car (or anything of any real value). Buy something disposible with no collector value.

You won't understand until you try it. Go buy yourself a $400 car, change all the fluids, put in the wrong fluid for each one, and tell me you're sorry for wasting my time on this thread.

The vehicle in question, is not a $400 POS. it is his daughter's 2007 new car that was maintained "by the book" until this failure.

You could put dog crap into a manual transmission and drive 1700 miles. What are you trying to say here?

Do you think that a company like Valvoline (for example) wants to have to market 10 different transmission fluids? Each one is marketed because there is nothing else that is usable in certain applications. Synthetic ATF will work in a 91 Camaro with a 700R4, but there is a chance that the owner of that car will not want to pay the price for synthetic, so they must market Dextron for that owner, or chance loosing that lucrative market.

Well 1700 miles is pretty far, I don't think dog crap would last much longer than 5 miles. (10 if you're lucky, but I don't know where you'll get 4 - 5 quarts of dog crap anyways).

None of you are seeing my point, though. Of course it's BETTER to use what your car calls for, but using the wrong transmission fluid won't wreck your transmission, using regular oil after synthetic has already been used won't damage your engine, the wrong power steering fluid won't destroy your power steering, the wrong brake fluid won't stop your brakes from working. Antifreeze is the only fluid that I think you should put the right type in for.

NO! You are the one who refuses to see our point. CR4 is an engineering community. A shade tree mechanic's experience is nothing more than an anecdotal amusing story that proves nothing but that one can be lucky. You have no understanding of a sound, scientific mechanical or chemical analysis of any system.

You are wrong and embarrassing in your death grip on ignorance.

I could say the same thing to you, but it would probably come in simpler words.

Now I see your point. Yes you can put any old fluid in your master cylinder. The old wife's tale about petroleum products swelling rubber brake products is just hog wash.

Well, You take a $400 car and turn it into scrap value. I on the other hand have been been riding a $50 motocycle I bought 20 years ago.....for the last 20 years. And I can sell it now pretty easily for $4,000-$5,000 Dollars. I on the other hand put the right fluids in it. Not the wrong ones. And I haven't done much more than one paint job, a few cable changes and brake relines, tuneups, and tire changes in all that time.

Hey, that was not me in posts 1 and 2, it was Lyn. Just because we went to different schools together people always get us confused.

Actually it was redfred, I didn't realize that haha. Oops!

i'm sure nissan has an air tight case. proprrietary fluids are always called for under any car manufacturers warrentty conditions. jiffy lube would be considered the experts as far as using the correct fluids. when it doubt, sue everyone involved.

If a proprietary fluid is call for by the warranty the warrantor can not charge for it under the Magnanimous-Moss act unless it is stated in the warranty. They can not void your warranty by you having your work done somewhere else(tie-in clause). Just as long as you can prove the proper scheduled was followed.

It all comes down to just what is in the warranty. That is your contract. NOT verbal as a service manager that says its so.

It come down to the manager is trying to make money for the shop every warranty job will cost the shop money cause manufacture only pays on scale. Where consumer pays labor, parts, overhead of shop, etc.

If the green fluid is really the same, just dye it red....why do they need to know?

I believe the original Nissan fluid is green the aftermarket is red.

Oops, but same difference.

Where is Tenneesse?

Tornado, Tennessee is due east of Arkansas._{as if you did not know} I live a slingshot throw from the mountains and a stones throw from the lakes in east Tn. Nice place to live. _{most of the time.}

Though red and green, I guess you could mix them up if colorblind. Or mix them together and get an ugly color.

this is true. When I replaced 6 quarts of the red with green, the fluid was still red. Red trumps green.

Wait. Whaat? Then how did Nissan know that it wasn't theirs?

Nevermind, I had it backwards.

If you mix those you will get brown

Why don't you try contacting the area manufacturer's service representative. The warranty book should have a detailed procedure outlined in the back for dealing with disputes. Be sure to have the documentation for the fluid that is in question. If the product container has a statement on it that states that it meets the manufacturer's standard XXX-123, than the manufacturer will have to either honor the warranty, or dispute the fluid manufacturer's claim.

I would suggest that you sit and try to read the warranty book supplied with your daughter's car and then act according to the information contained in it. You may also be covered for a rented vehicle for the time you are without a vehicle after a reasonable period of time.

Tranny fluids are not all the same. My S-10 manual has 2 different 5 speeds transmissions used, based on which engine you ordered. Each one uses a different fluid. One version recommends ATF, while the other one uses something strange. I think it was called synchro fluid. Not even the old 85-140 multi grade gear oil. On something as unique as a CVT, that is a Constantly Variable Transmission, The control of slippage has to be very critical. That is why there is so much of an issue over the type of fluid used.

Hi Sloopster3

Is your daughter following this? She might get a good laugh out of it

Can some moderator please come along and get rid of both of these dueling users?

CR4 ADMIN: Edited Post

Abuse/Attack: This post was edited because it was an attack on another user. Please review the CR4 Site FAQ and the CR4 Rules of Conduct.

I see what you're saying, and you explained that very well. Although I still doubt that if someone were to use the wrong fluid, it would shorten the life of the transmission. More-so the life of the fluid, and slightly the life of the transmission. Of course it shouldn't be done on purpose, but if it were an accident, then you wouldn't necessarily have anything to worry about.

OK, here we have what I think is the discrepancy in communication. You are making the reasonable point that a brief exposure of a transmission to the wrong grade fluid in a pinch will likely not make significant damage. Until this posting you've not made this clear. I and I believe most of us here will say that this is a plausible position but not necessarily true for all transmissions and fluid chemistries. I am particularly circumspect of this being true for a CVT, but these transmissions are so new to passenger vehicles here and operate so differently than a traditional automatic transmission that I won't presume what will happen. However, leaving the wrong fluid in a transmission (particularly all of it being wrong) until something dies (the scenario I and most of us thought you were advocating), will make something die sooner rather than later.

To the best of my knowledge, Ford Motor Company was the last to use asbestos in the friction materials of their automatic transmissions. For this reason the world was blessed with type A and type F automatic transmission fluid. The Ford motor company people told us that type A fluid would dissolve the friction material in their transmissions. Dextron was supposed to be usable in place of either fluid, but by then, there were so few transmissions that were still using the asbestos friction materials in them, that any shortcomings in Dextron would have been few. But back when automatics were in their infancy, there were different fluids. Using one or two quarts in a system that relies on 12 quarts would not make a dramatic difference, but using twelve quarts of the wrong fluid sure will.

The OP did not proclaim to have added a quart of the wrong fluid, he had all of it changed. And the CVT is still in its infancy in over the road vehicles. The friction point of the belt inside it is very critical to the car accelerating under load. What do you think would happen if you got oil on the clutch disc of a car with a manual transmission? What about getting water water in the brake drums of a car with drum brakes?

If the belt in that CVT is allowed to slip by an additional ten percent, the car will act just like a slipping clutch, and rev up too high. That additional high speed slipping will just wear out the belt, or the "pulleys" that it is designed to grab.

Instead of trying to defend your stand on the post, try to think what additional friction, or reduced friction in that PARTICULAR transmission would do. In one case, it would slip too much to be drivable, and in the other case, it would bite too much and bog down the engine, or possibly stall the engine out.