Previous in Forum: China Supplying Both Material and Assembly Workers To The World   Next in Forum: Painting a Koken Barber Chair
Close
Close
Close
7 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Associate

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 43
Good Answers: 2

Questions Related to the Thermo-Siphon Principle

09/26/2011 1:47 PM

I am planning to supplement a pool heater with Solar Heat. I would appreciate any input to help me avoid potential pitfalls.

Background:

A. 3000-gallon above-ground pool

B. One or more collection panels on 3/12 south-facing roof (center of panel(s) ~70" above water surface)

C. Open system. Both cool water inlet (with check valve) and warm water outlet positioned below water surface.

Q1. Can the collector(s) be above the pool, or must they be below?

Q2. At what elevation should the cool water inlet and warm water outlet be, relative to the water surface?

Q3. Can I get by without a storage tank (warm water flow directly into pool from collector)?

Any other tips/suggestions appreciated.

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 8006
Good Answers: 286
#1

Re: Questions Related to the Thermo-Siphon principle

09/26/2011 4:22 PM

Q1. The heat source (collector) cannot be above the heat sink (pool) and still drive natural circulation.

Q2. Cool water inlet should be as low as possible. The warm water return should be just below the lowest normal water level.

Q3. You should not need a storage tank.

..

Using smooth large diameter piping with few turns (and no sharp turns), natural circulation could be set up with with the collector beside your above ground pool.

__________________
Eternal vigilance is the price of knowledge. - George Santayana
Register to Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#2

Re: Questions Related to the Thermo-Siphon Principle

09/26/2011 10:10 PM

All of the thermosiphon systems I have seen agree with that description: heat exchange tubes below reservoir liquid level. However, you still might be able to find info on the "Cricket" system. It had a "high" solar collector surmounted by a small reservoir, with some kind of "geysering" scheme to drive water to and from a larger tank below (such as the pool). I don't know how well it worked, though.

Alternatively, if a small circulating pump can be allowed, you could pump from the pool up to the roortop collector, and then drain back to the pool. Solar PV might work to drive the pump.

Good luck, and please keep us posted.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Atchison Village
Posts: 383
Good Answers: 39
#3

Re: Questions Related to the Thermo-Siphon Principle

09/26/2011 11:22 PM

Your 3000 gallon pool has no pump? Is this a swimming pool for humans? How do you filter it? Normal plastic tube direct thermal panels need fairly good circulation, using the diagonal feed in bottom on one side, exhaust from top on other side. Multiple panels can be treated as one panel with bottom and top manifolds.

__________________
Align culture with nature...
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1753
Good Answers: 59
#4

Re: Questions Related to the Thermo-Siphon Principle

09/27/2011 1:01 AM

Solar heater works, for a long time. Thermosiphon feeding it in an elevated position works "in theory", does not in real life. Water has dissolved gas in it. As gas lifted, its pressure drops, gas separates and breaks the thermosiphon action.

Elevated solar heaters all have a feeding pump for this reason. Now, if you have a properly oriented slope below your pool....

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 17996
Good Answers: 200
#5

Re: Questions Related to the Thermo-Siphon Principle

09/27/2011 3:30 AM

I had a friend in the UK about 40 years ago that heated his (below ground) pool up from start of April through to the end of October by simply running the water over his tin roofed garage, after painting it black first.

The only changes he ever made was to cover it in with glass and added an extra rain collector.....then he could run it even when it rained.....but not at night!

The only energy it used was a very small 12 volt water pump, that could even be solar driven nowadays....

As a DIY enthusiast, he had everything just laying around except for the 22mm piping. He used copper if I remember correctly, but today I would use plastic.....

Yours being above ground, you would need even less energy to pump.....

__________________
"What others say about you reveals more about them, than it does you." Anon.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Where the sun sets on OZ
Posts: 1381
Good Answers: 28
#6

Re: Questions Related to the Thermo-Siphon Principle

09/27/2011 6:58 AM

try here http://www.supremeheating.com.au/

or here http://www.directpoolsupplies.com.au/category181_1.htm

As you will see a simple blanket on the pool will do some heating as well as keep out leaves.

multi channel black plastic pipe "thrown" on the roof that works in conjunction with the filter pump is another way. both are in the links.

__________________
Where's the KaBoom? There should be a KaBoom!
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 43
Good Answers: 2
#7

Re: Questions Related to the Thermo-Siphon Principle

09/27/2011 1:02 PM

Rather than composing six individual responses, I'll just respond to each of you in this single post (hope that doesn't violate the rules or protocol).

truth is not a compromise - Thanks for your thorough answers to my questions. This is exactly what I needed to get started.

Tornado - I have read about the cricket elsewhere, but I feel like it's more than I want to invest in time and effort (and $$?) - plus, it's copper (see below). But I appreciate your suggestion. Now that I have some design parameters, I plan to sketch this up and repost for a final critique.

ormondotvos - Yes, I have a circulation pump through the filter, but it's only rated for 10.5' of head at 110 watts. I'd question whether it would have sufficient reserve to filter the water AND push heated water out of the collector.

leveles - I guess you're saying what I suspected - i.e. that entrained air in the incoming water can serve to degrade the vacuum in the feed line, resulting in an interruption of flow into the collector. I guess that's why it's been suggested that a small pump pushing water into the collector would allow me to go with the roof-mount option.

Andy German - Yes, PVC would be used, as the chlorine in the water will react with any copper in the system.

JIMRAT - I do have a thermal blanket (basically bubble-wrap), but it's just an insulator, not an enhancer, since the pool is inside a small out-building and only gets limited sunlight through side windows.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 7 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Andy Germany (1); JIMRAT (1); leveles (1); ormondotvos (1); RSquirrel (1); Tornado (1); truth is not a compromise (1)

Previous in Forum: China Supplying Both Material and Assembly Workers To The World   Next in Forum: Painting a Koken Barber Chair

Advertisement