China Supplying Both Material and Assembly Workers To The World

We're doomed to become an also ran in the world economy.

With dysfunctional idiots running the country we can only set back and wait for our certain demise.

Our senators, congressmen and about a million other lawyers and accountants can't get it right and haven't figured out yet that squeezing the last ounce of production out of the current workforce, without adequate compensation, or just shipping it overseas so that 500 kids can produce 5000 widgets to get 1,000 that will pass inspection doesn't work in the long run.

Until we learn to quit worshiping at the alter of maximized profits, at all costs, we'll continue our downfall.

The earnings gap widens every day. The millionaires are getting richer and the rest of us are deciding how long after we reach 65 that we'll have to continue to work, just to get by.

I was talking about this with a friend of mine down in Atlanta this morning, (we both lived in the Bay area for years), and the discussion turned to what the outcome, or at least our ultimate success, would have been in WWII, had all of the US manufacturing facilities and factories not been here to feed the war effort. It may well have turned out differently.

Assuming there is work, I'll be working until I die. Which I don't have a problem with. I like work. It would be nice to be able to afford to work at something I enjoy.

<...dysfunctional idiots running the country...>

In a democracy, it's the Electorate's fault for placing them in office.

Not necessarily true, it's a matter of voting for what's available, or for lack of a better term, the lesser of two evils.

We're actually a Republic, not a Democracy. The original intent was/is to have an Electoral College elect the president, not the dumbmasses. Unfortunately once we got eat up with dysfunctional idiots in Washington, it was decided (albeit unconstitutional) that the dumbmasses (you know, the ones who only watch Idol and Entertainment Tonight) would be the electorate, and the EC would be figurative. In other words we're a Republic that quacks like a Democracy and now have evolved from quacked to whacked.

All I know is that the Chinese are doing some really big stuff...............all over the world.

Even I was surprised to find out that they may be doing the bulk of the work on our much touted, "high speed rails", in the US.

Man,...I thought I was going to get some sleep tonight !

You're right Mark, guess I'll fire up the still.....it's a little cool here in Florida. Nothing like home made vodka. Can't do that with style points in China !

This line just chaps me to no end."I don't think the U.S. fabrication industry could put a project like this together,"
This one makes me understand what has gone wrong.He arrives at 7 a.m. and leaves at 11 p.m., often working seven days a week.
I think we better be worried. Yes, we can save lots of money by outsourcing to China....or we could pay our workers more than $12.00 per day, and therefore pay more for a project.
So, as I see it we have two choices:1. Pay our workers on poverty scale, so we compete in terms of mud huts and such.2. Protectionist policy which will cost more but maintain our standard of living.

I'm worried.

I made the comment on a blog the other day day that if Chinese made goods ever get associated with quality, the rest of us are finished. I didn't think it would be this soon.

Another problem I can see with this approach. If the bridge fails at some point in the future...................who gets sued? I doubt China will give a rats a$$ about any lawsuits.

Once again we will be blaming each other and paying lawyers to decide which one of us pays.

The chinese can and will build anything. Their quality control is getting better by the day, they dont have unions to worry about, safety is not a ludicrously expensive overhead, and workers are a dime a dozen. In a nut-shell: we are all screwed!

I guess if you were an optimist, you could look at it like this: thats 400 million dollars saved, that they can spend on another bridge/road/school somewhere else. (pretty unlikely though, i know)

I am purchesh elliptical gear.

This is how most of us feel about it. Maybe we can make some money selling T shirts to lawyers that say "YOU CAN'T SUE CHINA", of course we will have them made over there to maximize profits.

I understand what you're saying, but like it or not, we are living in a global economy. Obviously all things are not equal. I think it's already far too late to back pedal our way into protectionism.

While I don't have the answer, protectionism works in both directions. Without outside money coming in, we will just be swapping money with each other, with the government getting their share on every transaction, which will result in negative growth and stagnation.

The politicians saw globalization as an excellent way to get US products out into the world. I think they failed to recognize that globalization is also a two way street.

I disagree with protectionism as well, and as you, do not believe it will work. This understanding underscores my belief that we are already over the waterfall. Unfortunately China has already started making quality products. Many of the 100 year old manufacturers whose products I use in exotic systems have opened new factories there, The quality is every bit as good as ours and in some cases better. Most of the high pressure water fittings made in the USA that I use have a higher leakage rate than the Chinese counterpart. Our factories have seemingly scaled down quality to compete commercially.

On the other hand (and philosophically speaking), we have been living pretty good while a good bit of the world lives in mud huts with no electricity and have never made a phone call. Looks like the start of a leveling of the field (socialism on a global scale). Design......hmmm.

I've been racking my brain trying to figure out what the US produces that the rest of the world needs.

The only thing I can come up with is food. I can envision us becoming a nation of farmers and associated services within the next 20 years...........................as long as we don't discover an endangered toad, snail or field mouse on any of our farmland.

Hey Mark, I was going to write a 5,000 word essay, bashing China, but that would be counterpart. And as you said earlier, " Give credit where credit is due." For being a Communist Country, they sure have a Capitalist strategy when it comes to Economics.

One thing we do export a lot of, that's..... jobs overseas I don't know if you seen this while you were searching, America's Biggest Trade Export to China? Trash, dated March 3, 2010. It does paint a pretty trashy out-look for us. As far as Farming goes, that's always has been one of our biggest exports to the World. I have family in Iowa that's been farming the same farms for over 150yrs and about the only thing that's really changed for them is the technology they use. Add the now famed, Spotted Owl to your endangered list, it sure killed the timber industry here in Northern California. It does seem that the Endangered Species List is about the only thing that has shown any growth in this depression, oops, that's right, it's a recession, even if the unemployment is 9.1%(±) in the US.

But one might take comfort in the thought that if there is one thing that Americans still excel at producing, it's trash!! It might time for me to change occupations

Kramarat what gets produced in Australia which the world wants? Nothing apart from iron ore and coal. Australia is a high-tech, high-skill country but mineral resources account for about half of all exports!

Our Federal Treasurer (Secretary of the Treasury) Mr Swan said 'those in charge now owed it to future generations to invest sensibly the returns from the mining boom.' 'The middle class in the Asia Pacific is growing by 110 million a year, and this means opportunities for tourism, education and manufacturing,' Mr Swan said.

Problem is we don't make anything here apart from Chinese babies - unlike the 1960's.

'The (tax) system must deliver a dignified life to Australians and increase workforce participation, he said'. {Mr. Swan}

Increased workforce participation for what? So that 'we' can work at McDonald's when we're 70 because there's no other place hiring....? I don't work at Maccas - I used to work at Pizza Hut - for 6-1/2 years ! Now I work as a kitchen attendant in a staff canteen a couple of times a week - not bad for a double {Associate} degree engineer. [Mechanical-Electrical, specialising in water treatment AND alternate energy]

If there is any work it's for mine workers - I don't have the right qualifications or experience unless I want to drive the water truck or otherwise become a 'health worker'.

All of Europe, the US, Australia are in a slump. Ireland has substantially dropped corporate tax rates, which is enticing corporations to base their headquarters there, which is great for the corporate titans, the problem is, as far as I can tell, that there simply isn't enough work for the masses, which unfortunately include engineering and manufacturing positions.

I was hoping to get more posts on this thread that would help reveal the extent of Chinese influence around the globe. Much like the Bay Bridge project here though, I suspect that the general population doesn't have a clue that the Chinese are bidding on, and winning, major contracts in other countries.

I've been spending a little time every day looking around the internet. Yesterday I discovered that they are investing heavily in technological, and all kinds of other research in the UK. The UK government seems very happy with the infusion of Chinese money. The problem, I think, is that any products that stem from this technology will be made in China..............not in the UK.

WJMFIRE, I just bought, (unknown to me at the time) a counterfeit Kingston 32gb Micro SD card for <$20.00 (US) on eBay, that came out of China. The quality was great and my feeling is, it was great, because it was counterfeit to begin with. After eBay notified me 2 days after the sell, about this being counterfeit, I tried to stop the purchase, eBay would not respond back, then they removed the seller from eBay, and the seller won't respond back either. So now, I'm the, not so proud, owner of a counterfeit 32gb Kingston SD card. So, I guess you could say that their Quality has improved, even if it means coping someone else's design. BTW, their shipping time has also improved, it only took 2 weeks receive it, instead of the normal 6-8 week waiting period. So much for, Protectionism! I don't know about the rest of the world, but they do have a strangle hold on us here in the USA.

It could have been worse.................at least it works.

Me thinks the Chinese are putting a laser beam focus on improved quality. It's the logical next step in controlling the entire global economy.

They built and financed the sports stadium in Nassau, Bahamas too. As long as they accept dollars and there is silk to print new ones?

Companies emerge and rise with the professional leadership and economic understanding. Then lawiers and MBA's take over from their secondary position, and stagnation and decline ensues. The same is with countries writ large. I cringe at their mindless chantings, in or outside Congress, and regulatory agencies. Chantings, like "free trade at any price", "clean air at any price". And I like it, but not in a mindless fashion executed, when obviously not everybody plays by the same rule. Or should I say, others play with some intelligence (as in magnets), while our lawyers sit on their fat behinds and sing Omm, Omm, never mind, Omm, Omm.

One cannot replace the creative and productive with the parasitic, and expect good outcome.

Those unwilling to learn from history are bound to repeat it. There wasa time the Colonies fended off (some, selected) finished goods from the mother country, successfully. They knew, what they were doing. It is NOT rocket science.

To blame is the dogma of worldwide free trade.

This may work if salaries are equal everywhere.

But if we pay 20$ per day and others pay 20$ per week there is no real competition.

This can only end in catastrophic failure!

The cure:

put a tax on any exchange that subsidises our labor cost and increases their labor cost.

Politicians will never learn except by a big crisis.

RHABE

kinda like the old trick of pulling the tablecloth out from under dinner settings, huh? Crash, bang, Boom!! Oops, we sure screwed that one up, didn't we!!

I noticed this at the end;

"he said. "It was a disagreement between unions about which had jurisdiction and who had the right to unload a shipment."

Tempted as I am to post the "head up ..." pic, best I don't, as it would likely offend several poster above too.

Here is the company's website.

Hmmm...................current stock price is 5.49 per share. I wonder if that's in dollars?

The site is a little funny to navigate, but they've got some really big projects going on elsewhere as well. It looks like they are playing for keeps.

I've been trying to find a website that has a comprehensive list of international projects that are either in the works, or planned, that have been awarded to Chinese firms, in order to get my brain wrapped around the magnitude of this trend.

No luck so far. The Chinese, in typical fashion, do not spend a lot of time or web space bragging about their conquests.

It's all ok as long as you don't mind dealing with a country run by a bunch of gangsters.

I'm not confusing it. Of course we have an obligation to take care of those that "can't" take care of themselves. There are many factors involved, and I think we're agreeing, that much most of the current state of affairs involving China is self inflicted. Not just in the US, but Europe and Australia as well.

I disagree that the basis of free enterprise is to screw everyone else first. Corporations that behave that way don't tend to last. Are there exceptions to the rule? Sure.

We've got large corporations that have moved manufacturing to China over the years to save money and boost profits. That's one side of the coin. The Chinese have realized that they can make the stuff on their own.

On the other side of the coin, we have people that claim that they care about pollution, human rights, equal wages, etc. But it seems to stop at our shores, and they are plenty willing to do business with China.

Two sides of the same coin, with plenty of hypocrisy on each side.

We are agreeing on most things, just possibly not on how the US gets itself competitive again. To my mind it has to get comfortable with the concept of a world economy rather than one dominated by the US ^{_{(as it has been for almost a century)}}.

Borders are starting to mean less and governments have to come to grips with being administrators - rather than parochial rulers propped up via outdated jingoism.

Right now it's more about bemoaning/squabbling over the loss of the glorious past, than thinking of working toward a new future. ^{_{(UK still suffers this 'loss of Empire' thinking)}}

Less emphasis on money ^{_{(profit/personal gain)}} and more on social solidarity ^{_{(e.g. common goals, like 'man on the moon', created)}}, would be a good start.

"Defending", as in protectionism, import duty hikes, embargoes, will only prolong the 'self deception', create poor relations, encourage circumvention and/or retaliation along with illegal trafficking. ^{_{(like prohibition spawned 'gangsters' through to the drug lords of today + FBI, DEA, etc )}}

Part of the worry is if the "Anti-China" rhetoric gets a serious hold, one might see riots and attacks on Chinese businesses and purveyors of goods in the US.

Should it come to that, then the US will suddenly find itself below 3rd world.

If there is a time for America to be rational, pragmatic and ditch the ill-informed rhetoric and political point scoring - it's now ^{_{(meaning as of the GFC lesson)}}

I don't disagree with anything you're saying, although I'm a tad surprised that anyone outside the US is not relishing in our potential downfall.

I got a hint of an answer this morning. I just need time to turn my mental movie into words.

I've had quite a lot to do with the US in my career, I quite like the people, so would not care to see them suffer.

Not so keen on the politicians, but that's the case world wide.

Totally agreed. I've been to a lot of places on the planet. Always got along with the people....................we are the same.

It's the supposed leaders that are dishonest. Always has been. Always will be.

True as it is, the people in charge seems to be misappropreating the funds allotted to them and should be held accountable. But as citizens of this nation we must realize that we are in a molting period, not unlike a chicken, and can come through with a new plume of feathers if we, not them, can look into the future. We in some ways have educated the world to a point we are now doing business with a profit idealistic people world wide. China is doing well because it has the ability, the people, the materials to supply these needs 'of the world'..But in every corner of the world is a short supply of many things of which we have an abundance, including knowledge, material, ability to create factories, shops, ideas of the future for a world oriented job market. Jobs cannot be created. Handouts supress the nation. Hands up is putting people to work..Think over the Company making chopstick in Al...Put china aside and think in term of the world marketplace..

We have a similar problem here in the UK, the last Labour government let in hundreds of thousands of immigrants, half of them from former communist block countries like Poland and Romania, these people work for a lot less than the average British man/woman, and have undercut most workers, this has left 2,500,000 people on the dole, many of them have come straight from college, and the business owners are loath to employ them, because first they have to train them up, while the foreigners who have been allowed to come here are mostly well trained in their job. It is because of this, that I expect there to be a lot of civil unrest in in the UK in the not too distant future!

Xanasax

Gentlemen: we are accustomed of measuring time referring it to our lifespan. For this reason 10 or 20 years look like an eternity when they are to come, and like "the day before" if they have already passed. History of countries turns in circles: just remember the Roman, Greek and more recently the British and French empires.... sometimes you are up.... others you are down... It is a fact that the history of contemporary China has been written yet: so many things have changed in this country in so few years, that there are a lot of things that still can happen over there, so: I would be more concerned about China if I were Chinese, rather than a citizen of any western country!

They are worried................not the citizens, but the government.

I read recently that they spend more money on defense against internal uprisings than they do on national defense.

This might hurt a little bit, so brace yourselves, but America basicly invented Capitalism and has been one of, if not the, defining nation responsible for its proliferation. So i guess as sad as it is, its now time to reap what you have sewn. Dont feel to bad though, Australia wont be to far behind you's (is that even a word?). At least you still have cheap cars......

I think you may have misdirected your comment, kramarat hasn't said anything about Capitalism. And as far as I know, I'm the only one that has made a comment, (#25) about Capitalism, "For being a Communist Country, they sure have a Capitalist strategy when it comes to Economics". And what you said, "This might hurt a little bit, so brace yourselves, but America basicly invented Capitalism....." You might be interested this, a little history about Capitalism. So, no America didn't invent Capitalism, even thou most of the World seems to think we did. And as far as reaping what we sown? Well, some years are real good and we can get 2 or 3 bumper crops, other years, well, maybe not so good. But, hay, that's farming, huh?

kramarat has got me interested in knowing just how big the Chinese industries have become and in what fields of manufacturing they are excelling in. It does seem that they have their tentacles inter-woven though out the World Economies and that's a good strategy on their part. I just hope they stroke the Gonads and not kick them, as that would surely result in an Economic melt down or at least drop us to our knee's

Hey dj,

I could easily write chapters bashing China too. Waste of time. Besides, bashing ourselves for making stupid decisions and squandering money is much easier. I hate it when losers get whiny.

Apparently Clarity doesn't care for capitalism. Oh well.

I still would like to know the extent of what China's up to. The bay bridge, work on bridges and tunnels for New York City, from the company web site- some major projects in Brazil, I know that they're building all over Africa, ( But the Africa projects are not contract work, that all ties in with them monopolizing metals and other raw materials for the next several decades).

Let me know if you find anything on the web. I think their influence and amount of work they're doing around the globe is probably far bigger than we can imagine.

I dug up a little more:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/13/us-highspeed-rail-china-t_n_497854.html

Massive projects inside and outside of China.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-qY_2oIdnE

http://www.internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article1883

I guess nobody will mind if I use this thread to continue compiling my list:

http://www.ameinfo.com/269871.html

http://www.ide.go.jp/English/Data/Africa_file/Manualreport/cia_10.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40565987/ns/business-going_green/t/wind-their-backs-powerful-democrats-help-chinese-energy-firm-chase-stimulus-money/

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/09/obama-warns-we-cant-let-china-dominate-solar-industry-after-they-awarded-a-chinese-firm-with-major-az-solar-contract/

Kram, I'm finding this thread quite fascinating.

A number of times in the past, I've made the comment that China has no reason to bring down the US, and in fact the opposite is true - (in response to comments pushing that 'evil commie' line)

If one looks at the formation of the industrial and economic giant, that the US became out of WWI, boosted again by WWII, Korea, there are great parallels in this 'rise of China'.

No wars involved (bar the usual skirmishes), so it's 'managed by engineers' not driven by 'political hysteria', but the cycle is not only remarkably close, but will 'settle out' in much the same 'level playing field.

We as a generation my not see the 'leveling', but it will happen. And it is in China's interest to prevent massive disparity. So Hopefully the process will occur in peace, which is probably only possible if common understanding exceeds 'political leveraging of fear'.

This thread is a positive step toward that 'common understanding'. Good job.

Thanks 34,

I personally don't think China has any interest in taking down anybody. They certainly have grasped capitalism and competition.

I'm sort of having fun muddling along and adding to my list. It's difficult to ascertain the degree of Chinese manufacturing impact even within the US, since individual states are now signing agreements with Chinese companies for varying projects.

Since many of these projects are public ones, and being paid for with both state and federal tax money, I think the, "Blame the Chinese", argument is well off the table.

If you happen across anything that they are involved in in Australia, post it here. I've been looking at Latin America this morning. This could become a full time project......................they are literally everywhere.

It's interesting to find out that a sizable portion of US "stimulus" dollars, that were intended to put America to work, are going to Chinese companies......................as quietly as possible.

I am unsure of the impact China is playing in regards to Australian manufacturing. And I am not aware of any huge civil infrastructure jobs (such as your Bay Bridge project) that have been outsourced to China to save money. It seems here in Australia that the chinese have more of a strong interest in buying up as many mining operations as they can. It almost seems as if there is a new one on the news every other week. Its probably not a bad thing for Aussie governments who are getting a very big kickback from all the mines here, but from an Australian citizens perspective, it really gives me the sh*ts. "overseas investors now own more than $2 trillion in Australian assets" This is my country, and we continue to sell it off from under the peoples feet. First it was the Japanese and now its the chinese (yeh yeh, i know, foriegn investment this, foreigh investment that.....but its the principle to me).

Kind of like the government selling off Telstra (our national telecomunications provider) or Queensland Rail Then they have the nerve to make a big show about the fact that all aussie citiizens will have the oppurtunity to buy shares in the company. Why the hell should we have to buy shares in something we already owned, every Australian payed the taxes to fund them in the first place.....ludicrous! Its like they are screwing us twice!

Not sure if you have this in the U.S. but check out this link and take a look at all the things that we consume that are either foreign owned or manufactured.

http://www.ethical.org.au/downloads/

As for China, you can just google chinese mining in australia, and you will find an endless list:

http://news.businessweek.com/article.asp?documentKey=1376-LSIHSN6JIJV801-456H966O41M2DM0AMHAQTPMH4V

http://news.yahoo.com/yancoal-293m-deal-australian-mine-023512251.html

http://www.citicpacificmining.com/en/

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/business/chinas-38bn-push-into-our-resources-boom/story-e6frede3-1226034223601

They seem pretty keen on our farms to for some reason, which is probably even more scary. "More than $9 billion of prized agricultural assets have been sold to offshore interests in the past two years alone."

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/business/foreign-farm-raiders-buy-9bn-of-aussie/story-e6frfm1i-1225953501132#ixzz1Zr1NTeNz

http://www.abc.net.au/landline/content/2010/s2976751.htm

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/chinese-government-buying-up-our-farms/story-e6freuzr-1225881085302

WOW!!!!!!!

Thanks for the input clarity. This is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. I was hoping to find an online repository of everything China is involved in globally, but I don't think it exists. These deals are made one at a time, and it's happening all over.

It would be great to get some of our other members to chip in some information on this growing list.........................and yes, I would say it is scary.

Great post. I never would have known they were buying up farmland in Australia and New Zealand. Now I wonder if it's happening here also.

No worries Kramarat.

And id say its happening everywhere.

Probably more-so here though, due to geographical proximaty to China, our governments lack of forsight and lax stance on the matter, and the fact that the Chinese already have sunstantial financial investment commitments in this country.

Hi clarity,

What started as an infrastructure question has become a lot bigger. I also found a $100,000,000 US bridge project in Alaska that is slated to built by the Chinese.

The list of projects around the world that involve the Chinese is starting to look endless. Just compiling a list for the UK is looking impossible.

http://www.ukti.gov.uk/uktihome/news/123568.html

This is just the tip of the iceberg. They are also financing much of the research at the UK's Academy of Sciences, as well as buying up stock in British companies.

Hey kramarat, don't know if you've seen this or not. Just interesting reading about all the chest thumping going on between the US and China.

Another bad idea on the part of the US. Once these high tariffs are imposed, (which I don't think will happen), Who do you suppose will be the ones paying the cost?

It will be us..................the US citizens.

It's like our leaders are playing russian roulette with our economy. But instead of having one bullet in the chamber, all chambers are loaded except one.

Another little piece of the puzzle. It includes some insight as to why it's so difficult to get to the bottom of what's really going on.

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2010/07/tracking-chinese-investment-western-hemisphere-now-top-target

I did. He sites The Heritage Foundation a lot. All I know, is that there are a lot more people than me wondering what's happening.

I thought this was gonna be a quick easy thread. NOT!! The Chinese are definitely not transparent, and like I mentioned, they don't tend to boast of their conquests.

Yeah Right Mark, Ha, ha, you see what you started now? I never really paid that much attention to China until now. And now, it's starting to look a little scary, it seems like they have quit a bit of financial clout through out the World. Kinda like what I said back on #27, "I just hope they stroke the Gonads and not kick them, as that would surely result in an Economic melt down or at least drop us to our knee's." I'm going try and spend more time on researching tomorrow, hopefully I won't have the interruptions that I've had in the last few days! Just curious, do the Chinese have a Mafia here in the States? ^{_{We all might be in trouble!}}

I know what you mean by a twisted sense of humor, my ex-wife used to work at the front desk of a prominent Hotel in Denver,Colorado and on two separate occasions she had guys check in, one with the name of Harry Beaver III, not the first, nor second, but the THIRD! And, the another one, who was Oriental, named Long Dong, that's no joke, she called me both times laughing so hard I couldn't understand her!

Let's look at our own built-in inefficiencies. They drive up the price of constructions and program. And that - naturally - invite bidders in, who working internally under quite different rules, can profitably undercut the locals.

I recently had the "privilege" of experiencing the replacement of some highway overpass "bridges" in my neighborhood. The fastest was done in some 6 months, the slowest took around 15 months. Most days I passed by crews were working. What? I could not always tell. But, they broke up concrete, replaced rebar by hand, recast concrete by hand, etc..... How quaint, how medieval, how low tech..

There is another way. Not even new. Multistory parking garages are built quickly, economically from prestressed, precast standard modules. Fast, low labor, economical, known qualities not even achievable by handwork.

Standardized and modular brings down costs at least by two on average, by four in the worst case.

There are always reasons, when outdated practices remain in use. In this case it is local politics everywhere, in granting the rebuilding contacts. Granting it to the right person working the right way, earns the guy, who "brought home the bacon" brownie points for putting so many people to work, and some extensive campaign donations for his reelection. A much slimmed down standard contract has not much room for either. Hence it is in bad odor in contacting / labor / grantor circles.

But, lifting head out of local mud, and looking around, there is a significant risk in continuing as usual. The contracts look rich for the plucking from the outside. When (mind it, not if) it happens, all the locals are locked out, and cry into their beer. For something largely their own making in collusion.

There is a larger example. I describe the outline as I recall. A californian is invited to provide the exact details.. A few years ago an earthquake broke an overpass on Los Angeles's main highway. The state's highway department estimated 2-3 years repair time. The city council, desperate, provided the contract to an outside builder (Red ???). In 6 months time it was fixed. The contractor received an extra large sum for early completion. His remark: If it would have been his modular design, it would have taken 3 months maximum.

When we are a largely guilty party, it does not pay to blame others first.

-----------------------------------------------------------

There is an economic law at work here, "the seen and the unseen" (Bastiat). It is not new, nor complicated. Look it up!

leveles, your comment is right on. Here in Australia, the Federal Government announced yesterday (Wed Oct 6, 2011) that 'local' companies should have better/more involvement in 'the mining boom'. As you say 'the contracts look rich for the plucking from the outside'.

I would imagine that IF they involve coal or iron ore going to Xinhua there is a caveat in the contract specifying the use of materials fabricated in China. [my conspiracy theory !] The amount of 'local' involvement is then limited to the purchase and shipment of said materials. So 'all the locals are locked out, and cry into their beer.'

One more example came to mind, long after finishing the previous note. All acts in this play are already finished, not in dispute.

WWII was finished, with the US steel industry intact, with old technology, management, labor, government relations intact, prevar = old, unchanged.

Much of the rest of the world's industry and society was smashed up. We were comfortable, they needed to rework everything from ground up. In 20 years their steel mills run rings around US's old steel mills, and Pittsburgh turned into the rust belt. Not with less steel iobs, but with total unemployment. Isn't that great for allaround sticking the head into the mud?!?

In sharp contrast, specialty steel mills fluorish in the US. They, obviously, make it fine on their own. Competing fine with external suppliers. So does the US agriculture, the largest (?) single export area. Agriculture - a known low tech area - competing on its own? Except it is not low tech. The "low tech" farmer uses GPS based sophisticated software for land use, applications, harvesting. He rides in an airconditioned tractor with all the comforts he needs for a long workday. He is a long way from his grandfather walking the plow behind two oxen.

Dale Carnegie may be the devil incarnate to many. But, there is a lesson to be learned there. He has driven a periodic "constructive destruction" in his steel mills. It was intensely painful. It has driven the cost of production down over 10fold, making the industry competitive and fluorishing for generation. Until stagnation set in again.

Ir was done, and can be done, successfully. Tho, not with the quality of leadership provided by foggy bottom.