China's Share in India's Engineering Business Will Affect World Trade

Limited greed to survive is OK and welcome.

That then, is not greed. Greed is the desire for the excessive accumulation of wealth with unscrupulous disregard for others' welfare.

Well, the idea of limited greed is to keep some scope for wealth accumulation by common men for personal security and to explore greater number of possibilities in the world and is perhaps good for engineers I suppose.

In India less than 8000 people have that greed money and 70% known countries wealth and perhaps much more unknown wealth and 80% people live on less than $1 per day. When our Politicians donate millions of dollars abroad then they take away that $1 from 80% and give to others and these people remain hungry for weeks / months if they at all can survive. This 80% population is for down to earth dirty labor for no money and is taxed more than 30% if they purchase food in that <1$.

If these under $1 people ask for anything then I am sure thy will get more expensive bullet in return.

Near 20% are in between and under so called limited greed and you can also call them technical labors.

This is data from our Government and anyone can get it under right to information.

Tell how much india is donating abroad per year and also howmany billion spent on nuclear bombs,armed forces,bribes,space probes,sabotage in neighbouring countries,on peoples killing force(peace keeping force-genocide)human rights violation etc

In Kashmir alone a lot of fund is wasted and lot more is spent without public knowledge. One Chief minister transferred entire state fund into his foreign account and many other may be doing just that. Right to information has failed to get any information on such thing.

I don't think India is any capable for high class war or sabotage in other country. China has already killed lots of Indian army tha they had nightmare and Primeminister went bagging to people for whatever they have to give to Government to buy arms.

As land and property in India is with poors, all rich hire Government Mafia to grab that little bit if they are not satisfied with looting tax money.

Most of the poor do not file income tax and perhaps can live unnoticed here. You can call it a heavenly life if you wish. I do give a lot of value to this as tis is freedom to some extent.

I think something going to change and thing will look different in coming years and I need more ideas people to transform India.

One reason I welcome the entir world here is that you all have something to do here and can live easily in mental satisfaction without wealth.

Do you know what they did in Srilanka from 1948 till 2009 and even thereafter?. Read the Norway's statements. People without a government becomes easy prey as no body represents them in UN. Even if there are about 50 or so UN members(muslims) USA can veto any resolution favouring Palestinians. This is the irony in Bangaladesh(east pakistan) Palestine,Chechenya,Srilanka,Ruwanda and so on.

I will not know as I did not visit Srialanka and never met anyone from there. I only know from news whatever was happening there. As politicians in south India are still having love for those involved in Rajeev Gandhi killing perhaps points to something fishy out there.

It would have been much easier for USA to turn Srilanka into Singapore like state with great business and place to visit but they did ignore all that perhaps for one single reason that there is no fuel in that country and USA is behind all places where they can find oil and gas.

India also does no have any great interest in Srilanka. In fact, Srilanka and Bangladesh, Nepal may be exploited by all. I think if Srilanka people are wise then they should take all help from China and allow them set up business there and get some ideas from Singapore Go international business center freetrade point to run the country. I don't think they need any help from India at all. After all they can fish entire Indian ocean if they wish.

I have already discussed about Srilanka and I am in their favor and I do believe that hey have potential. People in Srilanka can live great life. I have no idea about their real life but I can see thru their future. I don't mind healping those people in technology. They can very well set up free trade zone and invite entire world and learn shipping from Singapore and Korea.

Srilanka has to heal itself first now. It also have to learn to respect its citizens.

USA was looking for a "political prostitute" and a weak and crooked President J.R.Jayawardene of Srilanka became easy prey. He used the opportunity for his personal ambitions at the expense of human rights as USA and Japan and cowardly Indians provided cover. Japan recently destroyed by Tsunami,Earthquake and Nuclear accident,we wait for the other two.

Talking about those at high power which can alter civilizations is not something within my reach. You can curse them but I do not do such things either. I prefer to hold hand of someone who survived and can live free.

I just wonder that it may happen the other way out and Tsunami can simply eat away small lands in Indian Ocean and people in India need to think of giving place for those poor in need who-so-ever may be there surviving. Many civilizations moved into India and lived here. Natural peoplein this zone are Tribals, Tamils and Aryans and perhaps I am from Hybrid of tribals and Aryan from my body look. Tamils are there for over 3000 years as separte civilization and they did affect many nearby countries. They are pretty hardworking andintellegent. Conflicts do happen an these are always bitter, like what happend to many civilizations on earth at places. That it can happen in this era sure is of shame. That we cannot solve our problem as one civilization itself not any great.

Is there any cuntry on earth which is not bleeding?

I am not for political discussion but a help to emerging engineer from any community and from any place on earth. I may be disregard all hurdles and extend help for anyone to survive.

One engineer from Argentina has just written to me yesterday to analyze his circuit he has designed for photodiode sensor. I think this is what I will like to do and if within my reach then I will all young people to writ to me and take help to push teir ideas.

I know that just after few years I will die and pople will put my body on fire or perhaps I may die in unknown place. What will happen to what I hve accumulated matters not for me. What matters t me is this day and that I am doing something I love to do and some small help for someon to feel happy on earth each day.

I am in business in a large engineering organisation directly in conflict with several Chinese Biggies in Indian market and I know that we can not win. The erasons are many.

a) The control of costs - Which in India is through more of free market economics.

b) The Quality - Which as on date we are not ready to compromise. Just take an example - The normal guarantee for a machine is 18 months from date of dispatch and 12 months from date of commissioning which ever is earlier.

Right? This is almost universal language for any machines (at elast the market we compete in.

Should we make a machine with the lifetime calculation of say 18 to 24 months? With proper Quality built in (to reduce dispersion) we can have a sufficiently large level of confidence that it would run through the 12 months.

It would be legally OK but would hurt our ego and we try to make one that would run for a quarter of century at least (and they are running, we have recently overhauled and upgraded 1975 machine and on the way to do a few more af pre '80s,)

Result ? We are 20 to 25% costlier.

But then we aren't ready to learn the mentality. And because of that we still have a few die-hard customers left.

We go through various cost cutting procedures but all that had never been at the cost of the functionality (or even reducing the factor of safety). So we are able to cut down the costs to only a single digit of percentage. But we are still trying trying to escape the inevitable black-hole.

Yes, if quality is something makes sense then people do pay price and competition very well knows it.

However there are many so called reputed firms who go to China and get switches for $0.2/ each and sell for $10 plus. Tyco and Vishay parts and many others are manufactured in China at less that 10% price they are sold in USA.

Shirts made in India at $1 is sold in USA for $40 easily.

It is not a matter of quality but of attitude o making money by greed and looting people in your country in the name of brand stamp.

In India we have more tax than input price on products and we never know where all this money goes. Those less than 8000 people who have 70% money decide to keep the rest below $1/ day life here. This may be slightly different in other countries but trend more likely to be the similar.

If you have technology then manufacture in India in Export Zone with zero tax and sell anywhere at your competitive price may look better alternative.

See what India looks like

http://news.in.msn.com/gallery/photoviewer.aspx?cp-documentid=5585695#image=7

I've often wondered at what point is one considered to be greedy. Surely there are people who can never make enough money. Muammar Gaddafi didn't think he had enough money yet he was the most wealthy person in the world. His problem was that he didn't know when to quit stealing from his people and retire.

And I haven't heard anyone make a reference to China and greed except for those who made copies or toxic food products. Thankfully, that is a very small part yet it concerns a great many people. This, however, is more of a question of ethics than greed.

As to short product life verses the quality of something, many things can be made to last longer but in most cases it is not a good idea. That is because the quality degrades with use for most products. Consequently, it is better to start new again so the best service (of that product) can be enjoyed. There is a practical limit as to how long something should be used. And if everything ever made lasted forever, there would be only a small amount of items manufactured. Not to mention that the design flaws would be difficult to remove with so little opportunity to make anything.

Short product life is expensive and very long product life is unproductive. The answer is somewhere in the middle.

As to China's share of business or anything else, it will be years before they feel our pain because their standards are so different. We must raise their standards to our own or lower our standards to theirs. I don't like either option. They will only be masters as long as they can keep the standards of living so different.

I can't imaging living on $1 per day except as a subsistence farmer. I am surrounded by people whose living costs are 90 to 100 times that.

Whatever you do is your character. People think that is it something different and under clean cloth everything is neat. In fact engineer's character is one's product design attitude. Money making is a dirty business not engineering.

There are so many greedy dirty people on earth and they will always be there, no matter how many God come to make this earth better. They are almost immunes to all kinds of pesticide.

I do not think China can penetrate the same way as it has done in developed countries. Indian Traders have been buying cheaper lower-end products for Indian consumption and general feeling of people about anything Chinese - "Cheap but limited life!" Good work by Indian Traders !!

Secondly China is good for mass production items mainly. Engineering Industry has many items which are not mass produced and such items will always be competitive with Chinese. BUT

what we are missing out is that NOW labor intensive mass production items can be made cheaper in India , than in China. The need is for loosening FDI and reducing approval processes for new Industry. Indians can zoom past Chinese, with lower manufacturing cost. Entire eastern India has labor cost of $100 a month, without food and dormitory. In China similar labor will cost $200+, plus food and dormitory.

Lastly the train picture is absolutely misleading.It can happen only during a religious festivals, particularly where labor force working elsewhere wants to return home. I can post similar picture of China during start of Chinese New Year.

In India industry is not aggressive in spite of all types of freedom enjoyed by people and very cheap education, cheap mobility, cheap food and cheap housing. There were only few names that have reached very high from grass root.

While high interest and high tax and corrupt system can be blamed for lethargy and low output, I think Indian people do not have great attitude to be their own master an to look for highest goal within their life time. They all look very satisfied with peanuts and are insensitive to abuses. We do have some daredevils but they are very limited and look like aliens.

Educating minds here is worst than carving a stone..

Now that India is openly employing foreign origin people, and life is cheap here, unemployed abroad can easily come here and get paid for whatever they may know. We are so populated, that their presence will never be noticed.

China created the in house Market first, to bring in FDI and mostly from Chinese origin initially. Where is market creation in India? Only large scale infrastructure creation can generate market. This is not happening. For mass production,one needs either an innovative product or FDI needing mass produced product at cheaper cost.

India is not alone when it comes to people who do not have the attitude to be their own master. I think every culture has this problem. People tend to be very lazy, especially if they do not have much education. After all, how can they want something they know nothing about?

We sometimes classify people as having 1 of 4 types of personalities. The daredevils you mentioned are generally type A. They are the most aggressive and are big risk takers. Yet, many times they succeed when others wouldn't try. I'm not an expert on the subject, but it seems there are a lot of type D people who always just do enough to stay alive. There are many theories on why those people exist. But I think the most significant impact is pre-natal health and early development.

Most people are a product of their environment. And if they are ignorant of other options, then they have no cares about improvement. Television has helped this in many ways as has the computer. Still, it is a surprise to many when you tell them they could do better.

How does one create the desire for improvement, but without greed?

"Greed" is when 'gain', or 'reward', or 'return on effort', gets out of hand.

USA saw this in Wall Street and now everyone pays for the sins of a 'clever' few.

It is quite easy to encourage return on effort by seeing that the return is forthcoming. Rob people of that and they 'give up'. Then you can call them 'lazy' and wanting 'handouts'.

It is a little harder though to curb greed in those who 'have enough' but want 'more'.

People like Steve Jobs, who annual salary at Apple was $1 (as he had enough from investments to live comfortably) are the minority.

Making his attitude the benchmark and 'fair reward' the social duty, may be a better way than lionizing 'obscene wealth' and 'clever rip-offs'.

I agree. I am working for zero salary right now for last 12 years as I do have little Pension coming from Government, which is enough to survive and run a big establishment by paying others. People with idea often work in this manner and to reach to this level almost entire life's experience helps as there remains no more greed or just a little greed to remain active.

I get several calls each day from China from marketing women who somehow wants to sell something or the other so far. Almost everyone in China is business man/woman. I hardly get few calls from locals in India and almost near zero calls from USA. In fact I get messages like this one from USA and I like these.

Thu 11/10/2011 5:39 PM

Dr Tiwari,

I am sorry about the performance but yes, in some ways it is difficult to quote due to US export controls on our equipment. Our representatives will discuss your purchase directly with you.

Regards

Nigel Paylor

CR4 Admin - phone number removed

From the CR4 Rules: Do not post phone numbers or email addresses. The CR4 Admin will delete all phone numbers and email addresses posted in threads or comments. You can share this information via the CR4 internal messaging system.

www.ortec-online.com

Thanks for correcting the error.

I agree that such communications are not to be made public and only reference can be made. It was a mistake and I realized it later on after posting it. I normally strictly follow this and I do consider that each Country has sovereign rights to take decisions they like and their companies have to follow the instructions of their Government without fail.

Thank you.