Sharing Your Resources

Go with the flow, you can't help people who don't want to be helped...The best thing to do is blend in until you are in charge, then, make change slowly...Or if the company offers incentive for time/money saving ideas, pitch your ideas to management...otherwise you are just wasting your time, and risk alienating your coworkers..

Unfortunately I have been the "new guy who is smarter/has more practical sense" a few too many times to consider much of this new territory so I am not deliberately trying to rock the boat. Rather I hear the continual complaints about how and why things cant be more efficient around there so I take action to try and remedy the things they complain about.

The old computer was slow and very limited on what it could do. I took advantage of what the newer computer had to offer and even tossed in some of my personal resources to add a little extra bang in the end. I wasn't looking for praise or even a pat on the back but seeing the new system get crippled down to something worse than the old system by the 'been there done that knows everything about everything but has yet to ever back a single word up with a gainful action guy' just got to me today.

Sounds like you disregarded the social pecking order...you have to bide your time, become one with the status quo, the cream always rises to the top, it just takes time...

"Sounds like you disregarded the social pecking order..."

Perhaps but I am not sure how a pecking order is defined with a temporary floating guy and a guy who doesn't want to do anything at work being my only two other coworkers at this point. The temp is older than me but from a different company location that handles things far differently than we do here and the other guy just doesn't handle change unless he caused it which he has shown to rarely be for the better.

"the cream always rises to the top, it just takes time..."

But the heads with the most air in them rise so much quicker. Politics 101.

Mostly this comes down to us having too few people in the work force and no present management. I am the only one who has any interest in the new management position and I am biding my time toward it.

Largely I am just wondering how this will play out if I get the position in a month or two given the dumb issues I have had to deal with this week over nonsensical stuff.

I like my job and rather like the guys I work around most of the time but we need to get our act together and I am at a loss as to how to do that when my efforts get torn apart despite showing obvious gains for all of us with near zero efforts or change required on their parts other that just leaving things alone after I fixed whatever they had been complaining about.

Actually my goal is not to eliminate anyone for any reason. Rather keep who we have here and limit whom else may be sent over here as much as possible.

We are overpaid for what we do now but the upper level management seems to view us as overworked due to our present inefficiency. Raises are being negotiated now being they have came to the conclusion that to keep us here and to ever get anyone else interested in working here they need to compete with the people of our qualifications that are in extremely high demand in the oil fields which are class A CDL holders with tanker and Has-Mat endorsements with clean driving records.

If given the chance for us to from over paid and under worked to grossly overpaid and under worked who am I to try and prevent it!

I think you'll have better luck if you put it in those words to your coworkers.

Who would have a problem with being grossly overpaid and underworked.

Yep. I hit that when I went temping. I tried to do things quietly and in a non-threatening manner (hell, I wasn't stopping and they knew it).

The best was when I came in one day to find the permanent secretary and the IT woman supping coffee...and they went silent when I came in. Yiou know, tumbleweeds an' all.

Turns out the IT woman had found the templates I'd modified to make typing up forms easier. The recipients of the forms had remarked on how much easier they were to read and that's what gave it away. Anyway, she'd found 'em and deleted them.

I wasn't too bothered. I was leaving in a few weeks and I had the files saved as doc files elsewhere from when I'd been working on them!

I also got told off for modifying the SQL search she sent so I could use it the following week. Apparently, I should have waited for her to send a new one through, except she didn't and I needed the results on a Monday. Result: I entered the data and then left the search for my FT colleague.

My second temping placement several years later were far more receptive...or had I just got better at suggesting things?

Sounds like a ship.

Once it gets going, it's hard to turn it.

Make one correction at a time and only if you have laid the proper ground work.

Otherwise, take the money and shut up.

"Sounds like a ship.

Once it gets going, it's hard to turn it.

Make one correction at a time and only if you have laid the proper ground work.

Otherwise, take the money and shut up."

Its more like train. forward or backward. Side to side is very limited and can only happen with considerable force (followed by moderate wreckage to clean up afterwords.)

I am planning to start bringing my laptop to work now and running backups of everything on it when I can plus at least do my work from there as much as possible.

I might not be able to stop this train from derailing but at least I will be the one driving the cleanup truck instead of the lead engine!

This is not the set of problems that have guided you to this place in life. All the things you cite, which are obvious and second-nature to you, are simply the foundations for you to work with.

You are ultimately there to master a very human set of problems (not technical), involving communications, leadership, effectiveness, and organizational goal orientedness.

"The significant problems we face in live cannot be solved at the same level at which your co-workers, bosses, and predecessors created them." (paraphrasing Einstein)

cheers,

Chris

"You are ultimately there to master a very human set of problems (not technical), involving communications, leadership, effectiveness, and organizational goal orientedness."

I really don't consider myself their master to any degree. I understand my skill advantages and their weaknesses each of them has and so far do my best to help balance the load at work. The problem is I presently work with a hyper liberal drunk with moderate OCD and a know it all who cant shut up (who also shows a bit too much OCD inclination some days)!

The liberal drunk wants everything to be the perfect but done by anyone but him and paid for by anyone but him (including his own job duties most days) which I can work with just fine. Its the hung over in the morning and drying out at the end of the shift parts and the wildly irrational mood swings, opinions, actions, and OCD moments that I have a hard time dealing with most days.

I put several thousand plus .2 gallons of fuel in a engine one day and missed typing in the .2 on my spreadsheet report. He dam near blew a gasket over the .2 part even though he knows full well our pumping system has a daily variance of at least +-50 - 100 gallons on a 7000 gallon tanker fill and our actual final reports are sent right from the trucks computer monitoring system after every fill we log in so what ever we write down on paper has near zero end value anyway.

I know I am ranting but it feels good anyway!

life is about mastering these things... philosophically speaking.

when faced with the problems that occur when people are in discord, the stages we experience are unilaterally frustrating...

its like the 5 stages of grieving... only it is about Mastery... (I think they are closely related)

you have competence of all the technical aspects of your situation, but are frustrated by the people aspects.. so... that is your next challenge. leadership (or the fostering of) and interpersonal communications... both of which can ease the pain of working with others.

imho.

chris

Step one:passwords!

Step two:hidden files

Step three:drug tests to clean house and maybe get some sentient creatures in there.

Document everything you can, this clan will stab you in the back. Be prepared to change jobs again.

Only use the double monitors when you are there. Soon enough they will be wanting to keep up with the Joneses. Monkey see, monkey do.

This is mostly resistance to change, common in the lower intelligence types.

For the time being, it may be best to keep the computer interface looking the same as always for the dinosaurs. Make your innovations accessible only to you, but visible to others while you handle processing tasks in better ways. Eventually some of the guys will catch on.

Well one monkey that was against me yesterday turned sides already when he went to do his end of the month reports and found all the related report files missing.

I told him flat out it was not me and that I had copied the entire old computer hard drive onto the new system the other day and it had every file in it just so that we would not have this problem. He asked where it was so he could use it. It was missing of course.

Fortunately I have a second backup backup copy buried deeper in the system that wont get found. He doesn't know about it though but still when he comes in tonight the problem will be solved just the same.

Going back many years we changed from Modicon 200's to 900's. Instead of the dedicated programming panels we had these new weird desk top computer things. Every week I would take my laptop in and copy the programs and take them home, mainly so I could work on programs relaxed, all be it in my own time. No one ever took back ups of the program at work, so eventually the inevitable happened, a drive failure. The main program was OK in the PLC but two years of node annotations were lost on the PC's. it was comical to watch the guys battling on with limited information, OK there were the hand written notes, but with a breakdown they were useless.

After about a fortnight of chaos I was asked if I knew a way around the chaos, simple give me control of the PC's and I'll have it sorted tomorrow, BUT I want paying for it!

Accusations of data theft followed, but it was eventually agreed that the safest place for the data was 10 miles away from the plant on my home PC. This was in the days of DOS6. I got my pay rise.

As to being relaxed programming at home, my best bit of multi decision logic ever was written while I was drunk! Next day it took me ages to work out just what I'd been thinking about, but it worked so who cares.

As for laptop think more along the lines of a piano.

I'm printing this out and putting it on my wall so I can read it every day.

Thanks! (ga)

Chris

ditto!

Me too!

AH, you've got some great information in your note. Thanks for your insight.

The only thing I would take issue with is the last statement "If all of this is more than you want to invest, then just sit back and do what the rest of the employees do and collect a good paycheck. There is nothing really wrong with that as long as the organization is healthy and profitable."

Our value to the organization we are a part of it to provide the most effective, efficient job possible. Times may be "fat" for the company now, but the way economies and industries change that may not last for long. It is better to operate "lean" regardless of whether it seems like the industry is booming, or at least operating in a time of plenty.

A lot of the Posts talk about exercising leadership. That isn't always done from a position of authority. In fact, most of the time it isn't. People "in the trenches" many times step up and lead when the positional person won't. A leader isn't content with the status quo. He wants to see things improve and takes the necessary steps to move things in the proper direction. The tricky thing as a "newby" is to exercise great people skills and the existing dynamics to bring about change where everyone buys in.

It's unfortunate, but given the current state of the US economy and unemployment numbers, we've reached a point where being able to "bring home the bacon" often trumps risking one's job to implement changes..................even if they are good ones.

The thing is I have noticed over the years is that the less work I have had to do at a job the greater the pay that went with the position. Believe me I am quite aware that a highschool dropout could easily do my job but then I also have to admit its the highest paying regular job I have ever had so far!

Up to this point in my working life the vast majority of managers I have had to deal with were the highest paid and had the least demands placed on them both physicly and cognitivly in the companies I worked for.

Being I consider myself to be abitious toward satifying my natural lazieness it seems only fitting that I should push myself to learn the tricks to getting into a managment postion. For me its simply where the least work and highest pay aspect apeals to my lazy side even if it means substantialy dumbing myself down once I am there.

If I want to exercize my brain I can alway go online while I am at work and come to forums like this and get my IQ worked out properly! (or not)

Does this make somewhat logical sense to anyone else?

Sorry the CR4p spellchecker and editor are bugging out again.

Makes sense to me.

Things didn't work out according to that scenario for me though.

I aspired to management, not looking to be lazy, but less manual labor and I wanted to do things my way. Turned out I was expected to do the work of 3 managers, worked 12-14 hour days, and spent weekends repairing job equipment at my house.

When I left management I never turned back. I've run my own small company with one other employee, but as far as being a manager in a big company................you can have it. Nothing but sh*t bubbling up from those under you, and sh*t dropping on you from those above you.

I can understand that part as well. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on the view, around here far too many management positions tend to be held by spoiled second or third generation children of the families who own things which is largely how being a manger in this region tends to not be a hard job in most cases unless you somehow make it that way for yourself.

Given our limited supervision and very small work force along with what our last manger did/didn't do and for how long he manged to hold his job while at it is why working here appeals to me at the moment!

Granted in the long run as soon as my stocks go up or the wife gets a higher paying job than my own or my oil mineral rights pay off or any gainful combination of those happens I too will be out the door and not likely looking back with any concerns either.

Then if none of that pans out soon I would at least like to have just had the experience and record of my being a manger on my future resumes even if I never used it again.

Its just my thoughts anyway.

tcmtech, I'm not sure I agree with the laissez-faire attitude.

We can all have a tendancy to be lazy sometimes, and once in awhile that's ok, but not as a rule or way of life. That's why it is said that "most men die at 25 but wait till they're 70 to be buried." They have given up on accomplishing anything great. We feel fulfilled when we are challenged and meet that challenge and produce.

From the neck down, we're all pretty much worth minimum wage. It is what we know and can put into practice that makes us more valuable. That's why leadership pays at a higher rate than simple physical labor, typically. I know there are some occupations that are more physically inclined than mental that pay very well. But as a rule that isn't the case.

I follow that very well but so far working hard has yet to ever do more than pay the bills and get me by on just enough to live on. If going after a position at work that gives me greater pay and greater free time or resources for my personal life why shouldn't I be going after it?

I have goals and dreams like everyone else, probably more so than many, but without a way to finance those goals and dreams working myself to death is not going to do it.

I have yet to ever see a guy who works 80 hours a week at minimum wage go tearing around the lake on the weekend in his own luxury boat then go home to his mansion when he is all played out after the weekend.

Granted I will likely never own a boat or a mansion but I certainly don't want to work 80 hour weeks just to go home to my crappy 40 year old trailer house because thats all I can afford to own and keep up given my income and work schedual. I have been there and done that long enough. Its not fun, honerable, or rewarding believe me.

you just need to put pontoons on that firetruck...

nobody else would have one of them to tear around the lake in!

I agree with your point.

Also, there is a big difference between leadership and managing.

As stated by AH, people are creatures of habit -- you included. Your habit is the habit of any engineer. If you can see how to improve something you try to do it. Learned behavior modifies habits (the monkey reference is good).

Most of us have found ourselves in a similar situation, whether it be a spouse, friend, or co-worker (not mutually exclusive). And I think most of us have learned that resistance to our offer to help is an indicator to leave the person (people) alone if you aren't in a position to dictate the process. It is not easy, but it is the best for everyone. You've already demonstrated skills that can help. Sooner or later, you might be approached for help/advice. But until then, just let things be and try not to stress over it... for what it's worth.

tcmtech, been there done that!

I have read the thread and others have responded with good insight.

However, reality bites ...

I guess the 'drunk' is the old hand at this work, and has made the same .2 error a while back, so looks out for it ...figures he's showing you who's smart around there....also, a pickled brain may find it difficult to select which of the two monitors is the real one....

You are obviously way too intelligent to be satisfied with the way things are done, but remember that you are hired to 'fit in' and perform tasks, and your well-intentioned attempts to refresh the workplace may be construed as WTF?? rather than thank goodness !!

You need to find another way to relieve your boredom in between tasks. Dedicating creative energy to your job is not the only way to employ a good brain.

IQ is like the common cold...no cure! You can't smart up, and you can only pretend to dumb down for so long, before that road leads to madness...(perhaps this is why he's a drunk ??).

You need to find another way to relieve your boredom in between tasks.

Not to point out the obvious..............................but CR4 is an excellent place to kill time at work.

Or eat it....anyone know if there's a CR4A group?

My name is ER and I'm a member of CR4. It's been 3 minutes since my last login

No, but I have read about a certain CR5....

It is basically human relationship problem. It is obvious that any where new comer has to face resistance from old guards. So firstly you have to develop friendship with them. You have to join the team and built up cordial relationship with all.

After being accepted you have to firstly discuss with them your suggestions with all and get approval from all. May be some of them will oppose it as it is human nature to resist changes.

You will have convince all about the change as it will be good for all and also for the organisation. After acceptance you can introduce the changes with co operation from everyone and pass on the credit to all from the team. May be this will solve your problem.

When engines bust it's a pain, computers and software; drive you mad when they won't work, pcb's are impossible, but the hardest thing to fix is people.

And anyway, if you made these improvements, and they stuck, and someone above noticed, these guys would be first in line saying 'that was my idea that was'.

cnc jim

If you take some head shrink courses you may have a chance to accept what the human mind is made of or controlled by. What you are experiencing is not necessarily good but a part of human inter reaction. Not because I am smarter than others but because I accumulated a lot of experience in different industries caused me much concern when I attempted to enlighten someone as to a particular issue. Most people try to impress those that they feel are in position of authority for their own satisfaction. This gives them some comfort zone to be banked for future interactions. These humans tend to accept seniority and shun the newly arrived out of insecurity and or incompetence real or perceived. My last 5 years on the job I just kept quiet until asked for an opinion then I was careful not to give out too much as my supervisor was fearful of any one with more (experience) or intelligence than he. Not a good way to serve a company but necessary to perform the task at hand.

Thanks for the overall advice and opinions. (And the clues to whom clearly has got all the answers but no time to hear/read the questions.)

Okay for the recap. There are only three of us here and one is a company floater since we lack enough people to do the work properly and our main office and next highest management person is literally half way across the continent so we have very limited supervision here as is.

The old drunks a pretty good guy most days now that I started keeping the fridge stocked full of bottled water that he likes and I took the second monitor off the computer.

The other fill in is on opposite shift from me now and has show that its him who keeps screwing up the computer not me. I recovered everything that had been deleted and restored everything back to proper order yesterday so the new computer is actualy better than the old one now! I also burried several full backups of all of our forms and related stuff in the main system plus the extranal backup harddrive and my personal portable hard drive plus created two full restorepoint /recovery backups for the system as a whole. No matter what disapears changes or gets reset there are backup fixs now.

Sounds like a cake walk. Relax and concentrate on getting yourself grossly overpaid.

You're wasting your talents working with people who don't appreciate you and see you as a threat. The best career advice I ever got was try to work with people as smart or smarter than you. Unfortunately that is really hard to do, since most companies are run by politics and who-you-know. In a long career I've had two great bosses, both of them highly evolved and who challenged me to be excellent. I was never happier.

Someone mentioned the cream rising to the top; in my experience sh*t floats.

GA, SSCpal. Looking back, the times I enjoyed the most was when I was challenged to excel and produce a top quality project. Once a job got stagnant, I got bored and left.

I hated jobs working for petty little people who had no brains. There is too much fun to be had exercising my talent to waste it in a dead end.

You can probably tell I am 'short' in my current job, looking to the future. It never scared me to job hunt or try something new.

Incompetence and jealousy are a toxic mix, especially in old drunks like you are dealing with, but the world was ever thus. Since you have lots of time to kill in a boring (union?) job, I suggest you read Tacitus' "Annals of Imperial Rome." You're not the first to be punished for success.

We hear lots of talk about how much we need "innovation," but the reality is that the innovator is challenging the old way of doing things, and can expect rejection and worse from the guardians of the status quo. Believe me, it happens here on CR4 as well.

Consider the example of Prometheus, the first inventor, whom the king of the gods, Zeus, chained to a rock for giving fire to humans (cf. Aeschylus, "Prometheus Bound").

I have almost never had a boss who worked as hard as I did. Most of them sat in their office and smoked and BS'd with their peers.

One project my fellow engineers and I were working 18 hour days, going home at 3am for a few hours sleep and then back at it at 8am. The boss left at 5pm daily. Now get this: the twit was so clueless he called us all into his office one day and very seriously intoned we were going to have to work until 9pm to catch up! We all sat stunned until I, being the joker of the bunch, said "thank god, now we can get some rest." My mates died laughing and the boss just looked puzzled.

Great advice from AH #20 and Artsmith #25. Ha, it sounds like a civil service job, under-worked, overpaid, and inefficient.

Once (or before) you get to be manager, get a copy of the book: The 33 Strategies of War by Robert Greene. Greene uses Sun Tzu and The Art of War as his model but makes the book applicable to everyday life. It has very appropriate applications for business and I think you would enjoy it as a manual for running a business. When a serpent first raises his head, cut it off. Excellent book with good advice. Just make sure others don't think of you as the serpent. A manager must be ruthless when needed. Sorry, I ran a business for nearly 4 decades and the mistakes I made were being too nice when it called for a firm hand.

Good point of view when used in the proper place and time but unfortunately I think everyone here has been in one or more positions in their working lives where the serpents made it into the managers positions and thusly beheaded every golden goose that came along out of a false perception of a threat that was never there to begin with.

I learned well from the few good managers I had who were successful and well liked in how they handled things however I learned far more from watching the bad ones do what they did and got known for best both are lessons well learned that I hope to never loose site of.

At this point I am not so concerned about the ladder climbing mostly just on ways to make our jobs easier for everyone while keeping any new snakes out of our chicken coop.

Oh ya I just got informed that we all got a hourly pay raise that works out to around 19+% gross this week.

Get otta here, you scab!

No more sympathy from me.

If you are ever in the area the wife and I will take you out for dinner. ( and it wont be the McDonald's drive through now either.)

As the starting subject of my thread implied I like sharing my resources regardless of what they may be with those who can appreciate them. Even if just letting someone drive my old firetruck is enough for them!

Don't worry, I'll remember that. Although I hardly ever go north of Brookings, SD.

And, I want lobster, baked potato, salad with ranch and corn on the cob. Pitcher of margaritas would be good, too. To start.

Hey, did someone mention a pitcher of Margaritas?

I think I'll start that road trip to Minot ND after all.......and diner is on me and the Mrs. BTW.

Maybe best to come the week after Easter as Mrs. Moosie will be jetting off to Ireland to visit her mums, and her Aunts, Uncles and cousins.

Yowsers, freedom for a week! The Moose is Loose! ahahaha

(dang, no "Moose Gifs" on the icon idiot board....such a bummer)

I hear a new book coming.... Chicken Coop for the Soul!

Interesting, what other types of environment do you have there? Union, age of people (how long they worked there is a better way of putting it), educational.