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Roll Forming U-Section Unequal Legs

03/05/2012 10:30 AM

Need help with roll forming u-section. I am unable to get the equal legs length despite checking the entry guide and roll pressure from both sides on several stations. What should I check or what should I do to get it right? I am a novice with roll forming any help will be appreciable

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#1

Re: Roll Forming U-Section Unequal Legs

03/05/2012 12:09 PM

You might find this useful.

http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Art-of-Using-the-Roll-Forming-Process-to-Shape-Metal&id=1149796

There have got to be ways of calculating where on the workpiece to start the bend. There are some other links there too.

Hope this will help!

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#2

Re: Roll Forming U-Section Unequal Legs

03/05/2012 12:59 PM

Disclaimer: Since you said you are new to roll-forming, I'm going to approach my response as such. Forgive me if I cover topics you are already aware of.

There are a couple potential causes for this. It could be one or a combination of the following:

First check the strip for consistent gauge across the strip-width. This mostly becomes an issue with edge-mults that are slit off the master coil. Steel is like dough with the edges becoming thinner as it is rolled out. We call it the crown. So, check your master coil for how much crown it has. The amount can be changed by specifying tighter tolerances during the coil ordering process. The reason I mention the material first is it should always be the first thing you verify when you have problems. I don't want to say "garbage in garbage out" but rather there are differences in gauge control depending on the product. HR Black for structural has more crown than P&O ran through a tempering pass. They both have their place. The key here is to make sure your strip is rolled to the tolerance needed by your mill and tooling design to make the product you need. For non-welded open profiles you need a consistent gauge across the width.

How does gauge affect the rolling process? It changes the drive point of your die pair. Roll tooling is designed with progressive profiles that ensure a constant drive point. If a roll pair profile is designed to have a drive point at the center of your roll space but you're running an edge-mult, your gauge will be thicker on one edge making the outside of your roll space the drive point. Usually this is at a different radius making the surface feet per revolution faster, or slower, at that point. Your mill starts to fight itself with each pass trying to drive the strip at a different speed. The strip reacts by pivoting off center. If each pass is independently driven you can look at your motor loadings, it help paint the picture of what is happening in your mill.

Second check your roll-pair relationships; there are three different things you're checking here... flange gaps, roll alignment to its mating roll, and overall mill alignment.

For flange gaps this ensures your top roll is parallel to your bottom roll for your driven passes and that your inboard is parallel to your outboard for your idler passes. If roll pairs are not parallel, you're forcing an unintended change in the drive point of that pass; we already talked about what that does.

For roll alignment to it's mating roll, place a straight edge across the two roll faces. If one roll is off-set from its mate, even if they are still parallel, you are forcing a change in the drive point. Depending on the profile you are making, a 0.003 offset between mating rolls will give you grief.

Overall mill alignment ensures your strip isn't going up and down hill or skewing left to right as it travels from one pass to another. While diagnosing this problem, if you see the strip starting to skew off center in a particular pass, remember, it is not necessarily that pass creating the problem and is often two passes prior.

Lets say you see the strip skewing in pass 5... pass 3 could be the one with the issue and using pass 4 as a fulcrum.

So, you've checked your strip, it's good... you've checked your mill alignment, it's good... but you're still having the problem. Start looking at your tooling and it's set-up.

Tooling should be procured from a tooling design company that has engineering horsepower and experience in designing tooling for your application. And the tooling you are using should be designed specifically for your mill, for your product profile, for your steel gauge and grade.

A set of rolls designed to make a profile using Low Carbon HR Black will not make the same profile using HSLA or Full-hard cold rolled. These materials work harden different, they elongate different, they have different tinsel and yield values, all of which required different forming progression through the mill.

Your tooling provider can confirm the tooling design you are using is suitable for what you are trying to make and they will provide a Set-Up chart that will show desired gap values for each pass and what the desired growth and reduction is per pass. Since you are making an open profile, you'll be looking at growth per pass, not so much reductions.

Steel elongates as it is worked and your tooling designer will account for this in the tooling design. Also, a you create radii, the wall will want to thin, the tooling design should account for this as well; so long as the tooling is designed for the grade and gauge you're using it for.

All the processes involved in forming steel are based in science and physics. The strip in your mill is doing exactly what you're telling it to do, the art behind the science is finding out what to tell it. It boils down to quality of the strip, mill alignment, and tooling design.

Good luck.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Roll Forming U-Section Unequal Legs

03/05/2012 1:32 PM

If that isn't a GA, I don't know what is! Very informative. Thanks!

I tried voting, but I get a notice that: You, or someone in your network (whatever that means) has done this operation too many times. Please try again tomorrow."

So, I'll vote tomorrow.

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#4
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Re: Roll Forming U-Section Unequal Legs

03/05/2012 1:49 PM

I can vote today.

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Roll Forming U-Section Unequal Legs

03/05/2012 2:48 PM

Thanks Mikerho and Lyn.

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#7
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Re: Roll Forming U-Section Unequal Legs

03/05/2012 2:53 PM

Well written, and not too technical for us novices.

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#9
In reply to #2

Re: Roll Forming U-Section Unequal Legs

03/05/2012 10:36 PM

Thanks for the info provided.

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#5

Re: Roll Forming U-Section Unequal Legs

03/05/2012 2:46 PM

Oh... two other things I forgot to mention:

Tooling wear. Usually made from D2 Tool Steel, tooling is durable but wears over time. You should have been provided profile templates with your set. Use these often to track and identify wear. Your tooling manufacturer will provide you guidance related to how much wear is acceptable and when they should be returned for regrind.

Second... I see this is your first post. Welcome to CR4, we're a diverse crowd always willing to help. Stop by often to both gain and share.

We're looking forward to your continued membership.

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#8

Re: Roll Forming U-Section Unequal Legs

03/05/2012 8:00 PM

When using the roll or press brake, I always used scrap to work out the settings and stops.

You can also start with the metal over size and trim to even the legs. When rolling half a circle for a tube, you have to cut off the flat part anyway.

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#10

Re: Roll Forming U-Section Unequal Legs

03/05/2012 11:54 PM

An excellent reply by Javahead and as was pointed out the pressure should only be sufficient to the drag the material. This M/C only had 3 driven stations.

When checking the gaps between the rollers, use a piece of copper wire and hand crank the M/C. See photos. I built this M/C 20 years ago and it has had a battering by the owner, but still produces a good part now it's been reset.

When roll forming the 2 sheets 0.4mm x 250mm colourbond strip, we had the same problem, but it was caused by the coil being stretched along one edge. This happens in the slitting process and can normally be seen as a wavy edge and is caused by the slitter rolls being badly aligned or blunt or by the take-up coils being misaligned.

As a last resort, depending on the thickness of section, putting an additional 2 adjustable rollers pressing on the edge may force the section to re-centre.

Tony

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#11

Re: Roll Forming U-Section Unequal Legs

03/06/2012 11:29 AM

I am going to answer your question supposing you are rolling U-sections through hot rolling of billets or beam blank. If not please specify what you use, coils?

First check rolls positioning, apart of measuring gaps like others have pointed very well (also with aluminium wire), check if horizontal rolls are horizontal indeed. Please check also that the gaps are maintained also under pressure, specially vertical rolls. Also, check the gaps between chocks and stand collumns, so drive is perfectly axial.

After that please ensure the edger stand/s roll/s do work on section flange tips, where they are always supposed to. If not, make them work reducing the flange height, although flange height could decrease, beacuse you could always make it grow.

I suppose you have used the positioning of horizontal and vertical guides, isn't it?, lateral misplacement is very important too.

Check the section you get as "leader pass", in terms of symetry and thicknesses, very important.

It would be very important to know the details of stands type, grooves geometry and rolls gap.

Good luck,

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Roll Forming U-Section Unequal Legs

03/07/2012 9:11 PM

Excellent point, the original poster did not clarify if they were Hot or Cold Rolling so you covered the other option.

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