Black Coating Over Painted Wood

GacoFlex.

Not necessarily an endorsement, but this is good stuff.

Sounds like most of your criteria are met. Smooth or slightly sandy finish? Gloss? Color? [edit] Oops, in the title you say black. Is this to remain the color? I'm not sure you can get this in a dark tint.

In addition, grafitti cleans off fairly easily, and slices/deep scratches are not too hard to blend in.

^{It pains me to say KrisDel™ Corporation has the exclusive dealership on this stuff...}

I'll check it out. There's always carbon black.

Drat, KrisDel does it again.

Maybe we'd better buy them, absorb the good parts and sell off the rest at a healthy loss for tax proposes.

Our gross revenue looks like it'll top $3.00USD this tax year.

Sounds like you need a coating that is UV protected. To get the thickness you want and really good protection consider using bed liner. That stuff is bullet proffered!

0.125"? Gonna put it on with a trowel?

Exactly. More likely a wooden tongue depressor.

The plywood , although marine grade, has dried out and is shrinking.

The coating is flaking there. The additional thickness will help hide these defects. I've also got some seams that have opened up for the same reason.

So, I'll fill in the defects then come back with a thick coating of the magic goo.

All the special coatings.....

This is what I experienced: we did a coating with alkoid (oil) based industrial primer and the matching end coat. It started to crack and came off, just like yours.

Also 3 years.

A different approach we did with a good acrylic (latex) and 2 coatings with a roller: after 9 years it still looks like new.

Also google "KIWI paint" as I put this on the deck of my sail boat - same acrylic base. This is a system that can be applied very thick.

On my house I put a mix of acrylic paint, white thin set, a plasticizer to bond, (compactuna). !0 years and no problems.

I have even put it straight on painted metal. You can play with the components and go from - sandy paint to a plaster like composition.

D.

I hadn't considered acrylics, don't know why. I looked at the Kiwi web site.

I would really like to retain the black color.

Thanks.

You can use black paint, grey thin set. The plasticizer is transparent and the UV protection. I have sprayed it, painted it with a brush, applied with a stiff broom and also with putty knife and/or trowel.

I am going to use the same success product to put a coating on my parking space and driveway. This time it will be grey- blue and will be imprinted.

I make the mix in a bucket with a electric drill and mixing accessory.

We have a lot of moisture and this formula is very resistant and sticks on everything. I just try to pass some experience.

If you need pictures, I am willing to make some, so you can see the results.

D.

I would tile it....or you could use stucco....or fiberglass, with gelcoat....or you could coat it in black etched stainless steel...

Nope, nope, nope/nope and no. Photo of entire piece.↑

I'd like to retain the texture and color of the original work, to the extent practical.

Lots of wierd angles and cuts to deal with.

Thanks.

Can you raise the sculpture off the base, and rebuild a permanent base?

I could. Why would I?

Lyn, the wood being discussed here: is it the base of the artwork?

^{Doorman boldly predicts the response is "No".}

No.

See # 8.

The first pic just shows a section of split wood. The wood is an integral part of the art, and it will not be replaced, at this time.

I'm also looking for a place out of the sun, if not inside, but, it is public art, so outside will always be its home I think.

Oh, I thought we were talking about the base......Well then I think I would have to go with the bondo and paint suggestion for the surface repair....For the paint I would contact Sherwin -Williams ....

Sherwin Williams sells an elastomeric coating that can be trowelled on, but it only comes in white.

I would scrape it down, prime it with acrylic primer, use a sheetrock blade to run the elastomeric over it to smooth it out and fill in the gaps and scraped areas, then put two coats of acrylic paint over it.

Here's the rub. I don't want to disassemble the thing. I want to do it in-situ.

Artists never consider the poor slobs that have to lift/move/care for the art. The slots you see in the cast concrete base (not provided by the artist) were supposed to accommodate a fork lift or pallet jack. They don't.

The other problem is that I don't want to take it apart to do this. And I don't want to disturb the finish on the rusted metal. Another point in favor of a low/no solvent, thixotropic material. Less bleed under on the masking tape.

Nuf for now.

Hi Lyn

I have a few questions:

1. Is it standing level? (Very important for my approach.)

2. Must it retain the timber based look, sound?

3. Is the base hollow or a solid block?

4. How much can you spend?

5. Can the artist be contacted?

I think I could protect this and avoid further deterioration for years to come. It would be worth it as far as I am concerned. You wouldn't want to do this every year that's for sure.

I'll wait for a response and then hit you with the solution. Shooting in the dark is a risky business. Not communicating with the artist would be asking for trouble, trust me on that one.

Hope all goes well, Ky.

I'll get back to you tomorrow.

You didn't say anything about the thickness of the coating so here you go:

Here is what I would do.

1. Level sculpture

2. Rough surface and clean (even drill holes)

3. Build casing from marine ply. Allow the size to be 1" larger. Include a chamfer of your choice.

4. Get the best, finest concrete money can buy and ad some 'sicaflex' (?)

5. Pour mix into cavities and maybe 1/8 up the sculpture. If I'd be the artist I would not mind an inch more ^{(up the sculpture)}. (This is where level comes in). Use a hammer drill to vibrate the side walls while pouring.

6. Remove casing but take your time. In your climate it might set faster than Murphy can interfere.

7. You can then paint the plinth with several layers of black paint of your choice.

This would be cheap and be done in a day. Any future repairs would come easy. I think any thing else would be patch work and not last very long. Bunker the cancer!

Sorry, thought this was cleared up here: #8

The wood is an integral part of the artwork, not a base.

The base is cast concrete.

My original picture was misleading in that I was trying to show a small detail of the paint peeling from the wood.

I don't like the base, but it isn't the problem.

Cheers.

Lyn, Solar Eagle might just be onto something. Your plywood base is not taking the Arizona climate. Find a wood that can take your climate au-natural, no special finishes, like teak or redwood.

Otherwise, ask your paint dealer for his best water base paint. There have been lots of advances recently, such as DTM (direct to metal) that is wonderful.

I have a set of steps that look like your plywood, peeling, splitting, etc. I power-sanded them down and am starting with black latex, then exterior splackling to fill the cracks, then another layer of black with non-skid sand sprinkled on.

Sprinkling sand onto wet paint gives it a nice stucco look. Resists abrasion and graffitti, too.

Mike took the words out of my mouth, even down to the choice of woods....

The base is the square, light green thing with the two rectangular holes upon which the sculpture rests.

Am I confused?

I'm also looking for something thick enough to bridge some 1/8" gaps in the wood joints.

Alrighty, shoot this one down.

1. Rough sand old surface.

2. Apply polyester filler, aka Bondo.

3. Sand, grind, file, etc. to fit and finish.

4. Top coat with 100% acrylic latex, such as Sherwin-Williams SuperPaint.

I've used Bondo on exterior wood repairs before and it adheres and holds up well, but it does have to be top-coated. And I used dark gray SuperPaint on my plastic shutters when they started chalking. Granted it's dark gray, not black, and this is West Tennessee (southwest exposure), not Arizona, but the paint looks better (good as when first painted) after 3 or 4 years than the shutters did at the same age.

Fire away.

I have nothing against Bondo and paint.

Problem is, the more steps involved the higher the probability is for damage of the adjacent metal parts.

I'd like to do this myself, because I don't trust anybody but me. Arrogant, I know. And I have limited time to spend on this.

I may have to farm it out, I guess.

Thanks.

This is good stuff, and you can put it on pretty darned thick.

http://www.valsparatlowes.com/en/find-the-right-product/exterior/paint/duramax-paint.html

Lyn,

Try an automotive product, undercoating comes to mind.

handyguy100,

Glad you came out to play. Must have been boring all those years, just sitting there watching.

Anyway, ormondotvos suggestion of polysulfide has got my interest, but undercoating could certainly work.

Thanks to you, both.

It looks to me like your problem is thermal stress and ultraviolet degradation. My tendency, given your answers, is to recommend a glass or nylon fibered gelcoat in black. Before I did that, I'd scrape off the damaged parts of the finish, apply double strength copper napthenate or better still, GitRot to protect and stabilize the wood. Or CPES http://www.rotdoctor.com/products/cpes.html I'd expect maybe ten years in this blazing hot environment. My experience is boat deck refinishing latitude 24 (Key West). The black polysulphides used to set teak decking might be what you want, also. http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/35.htm /p]

Why not use truck bed liner? It is UV resistant and very tough.

a link to one I'm familiar with (I used it on our dock/boat ramp 4 years ago and it still looks new)

www.rhinolinings.com

you can also try Rustoleum Roadwarrior brush on lining. Available from Grainger p/n 6YH23. We have used this at work with good results on wood trailer decking. It is fairly easy to work with in tight areas with a brush.

Good Luck

Ahhhh just putting a "Band-Aid" on that crapped-out plywood......so do everyone a flavor and replace it with a suitable wood that will stand up to the test of time.....

The wood construction is poor for an outdoor application. The seams are oriented to allow water seepage into the joints allow internal damage. An ornamental cap, properly seated and sealed, would help and might look a little better.

Bazzer has the best idea: Granite = "The rock of the Ages".

But you have to ask yourself....is it what the artist would have wanted? What were they saying when they chose wood rather than granite? Should the whole piece be allowed to degrade quietly into the ground?

Yes, this is most likely the intent...however it has already been interrupted and corrupted, so it really doesn't matter anymore....Lyn is now the artist...

This is in response to some of the last contributors.

The name of the piece is Fragments of Support. I agree with ER that preserving the original artists essence in the piece is desireable and my goal. Thus, I will retain the wood in deferrence to the original artist.

Money is a major factor in my deciding to undertake this project. We have none. Our non-profit has been the victum of the economic hard times and contributions are nill. Our suppporting funds from the municipality have been reduced by hundreds of thousands of dollars. Staff has been cut, etc. etc.

That's why I'm considering doiing this myself.

Thanks.

I am not the owner of this art. I am the ad hoc caretaker of the 30 some peices scattered throughout my fair city. I guess I care more than anybody else about proserving this art.

I guess I care more than anybody else about proserving this art.
Good for you, with this sort of thing it's a trade off between the cost/effort and the result.
Maybe you could get a supplier to donate the coating/paint, they could use it in
publicity.
Good luck.
Del (If I was there I'd lend a paw)

Thanks for the support. And the thought time you have contributed.

But then, it's partly wood, so yew would be interested.

I just may take your idea to our paint supplier. We buy all our paint from the local Ben Moore paint store.

My comment was slightly tongue-in-cheek, knowing that you come from a "respect the artist's intent" standpoint. Sorry to hear about your NFP's troubles, sadly there's a lot of it about. All power to you for working to keep things together.

Local sponsorship is always worth a try. Do you have a local co-operative organisation? Local firms often have Charity Committees who can hand out £/$500 to worthy local causes. How about a "raise cash or lose it" article in the local paper? A volunteer drive (for some of the other jobs)? Ask the local art college tutors if they can help?

I too would come and pitch (there's a thought) in, if only to wipe Del down with turps at t'end of t'day

The artist probably didn't have any say in the plinth, It was more than likely to be a question of cost & wood was the cheapest, but like most cheap options turn out to be false economy.

Bazzer

The wood is NOT the plinth! Lyn does keep saying this....

Once again, for clarity. The black parts are wood. Note the open seam on the left side.

Never tried this myself, but I always wanted to. I had a thought once to take the white roof coating to coat tin and other types of roofing material and add a color tint to it. The coating is long lasting, thick, and weather proof. Just don't know if you can add tent to it or not? Just a thought

I was talking to a few fellow co-workers about your dilemma and one of them uses the Rustoleum Roadwarrior product on wooden playground equipment to encapsulate and protect them. Perhaps Benjamin Moore may have an equivalent?

Good Luck and Thank You, Volunteers make this world a better place to live.

I like the durability of the bed liners, but I fear they are too thin to bridge some of the gaps in the wood joints.

My thought is to get some compound with the consistency of wheel bearing grease and only have to put one coat on the piece.

I have a limited amount of time to work on this and it will be exposed to the public during my work. I'd like to get it all done in a single day.

Thanks.

WWW.plastidip.com product #f-698 looks like a possible candidate?

I know you are not interested in replacing the wood currently but you may want to consider Lignum Vitae or African Blackwood if you have no other long term solution.

I'll come out and do it for you. I'll even donate my labor. Material will run less than $100.

Here's a list of associated fees that may come into play:

Environmental impact study $150

City permit $ 75

Hazmat containment tent with HEPA filter $650

City arts council inspection $ 75

How can you be broke?

You forgot $100.00 for hydration. That's always important here in the desert.

Have you tried eliciting the local High School and see if the Wood Shop teacher(s) and class could help you rebuild the base unit as part of a class-wide Spring project? What about the local artists in your area, or the local college(s). There must be some artists around you that would die for a chance to jump in and fix this artwork. Just think of all of the publicity for them!

Contact your local newspaper and talk to an Editor there and see if they would do an article about your artwork plight....and the need to call forth all frustrated artists to help.

Just a thought! You'd be amazed what people volunteer for these days if you don't ask for money but only time!

Yeah, just think of all the sticky coating spilled on the sidewalk and tracked all over the place by well meaning volunteers. The desirable rusty metal... gone. Blobbed over with coating and roughly cleaned, but not really well enough. This is artwork that the city proudly holds up for public display; this is troubling that so few tools are at the disposal of the caretaker tasked to continue their true character. Sign of the times, I guess.

Moosie, I'm sorry to sound so negative on this but you and I both know that there are resourceful individuals out there, craftsmen with caring and giving personalities. People, on the other hand, are selfish, self-centered ignorant blobs of goo who cannot be trusted with a potato gun. I see this project ruined by this sort of volunteerism.

They need to get a bunch of hot young chicks in bikinis, do a carwash on a Saturday for $10 a wash, and use the money to hire a pro. There might even be enough left over for lyn to buy a bottle of tequila.

***HANDS UP*** I'll help Lyn with that bottle of Tequila, okay? LOL Si Senor....

Now that's the sort of fundraiser that wouldn't occur to me....I'd have the hunks out of tops.....

Or we could pay a bunch of CR4ers to keep their kit on...

Which reminds me...still looking for 11 more for the Men of CR4 Calendar...I've decided to donate profits to Lyn's NFP for artwork upkeep. kram's already Mr June: any more volunteers??

There's a thought lyn: calendar with the artworks on? Cheap online printing available - vistaprint and others

We do have the ability to move them. Maybe we could lease them to various business owners.

The ladies at the knit shop just love the Pink Chair.

I just jumped back on here to correct my post. Of course English Rose...............................young studs in speedos for the female clientele.

Didn't mean to leave you out.

Rose, I think you can count me out to pose for your calendar.....unless you like "flab". LOL

[Hey, what can I say. I've lost 175 pounds or thereabouts in the last 2 years and still going for more! ]

Funny, kram said something similar. I plan to go for a Calendar Girls approach - with the CR4 member (she said member) completely hidden by a piece of engineering genius. Perhaps I could suggest you in those disused locks in April?

Well.................................

We are in the process of donating one of our historically significant (locally) statues to the local community college for placement in the military portion of their rose garden.

They will "accept" the statue if we pay all expenses and give the $70,000.00 bronze to them. They even wanted us to maintain it for them, after transference. I'll not be asking them for any "help".

Also, I have specific ideas about this work should be accomplished and want to do it myself. It's the nobody can do it right but me syndrome, and the fact that if it is damaged I'll have no recourse if a volunteer destroys it.

We do have volunteers who help with some of the maintenance, but nothing this complex.

Good to see you're a keen recycler....

There is a black liquid rubber coating - it is a one part, stir and apply - called Sealoflex CT. It is a modified roofing material made as a fish-safe coating for fish ponds. It is a dark gray - not a true black - but it will hold up to the elements very well and is a delight to apply. We get it by the gallon thru Coastal Pond Supply 888-pond-h2o.

You haven't said if the original artist has been contacted. How much was the artist paid for the piece? If it was expensive, the artist may be interested in helping, to keep the piece alive. Tell the artist the piece is dying, and may have to be disposed of to the dump, can't have trashy art around, can we?

As mentioned the artist was no house builder. The joints are not correct for exterior use, and the finish was not durable. This piece was either intended for inside display, or just cranked out to get the commission.

Either way, the artist is the one to decide if the piece is to survive.

If you have no funds, do like I just did on my steps that look exactly the same. Power sand, prime, paint. That's what the artist did.

Given your time constraints, maybe the best fix is to

1. Smooth sides and edges the best you can

2. Mask off the metal and apply a black caulk to the edges with putty knife or tongue depressor. You could use acrylic latex (DAP Alex Plus comes in black), polyurethane (SikaFlex is avail in black), or silicone (DAP Silicone comes in black). I put silicone last because, although it may be the most durable, I find it very hard to tool smoothly. Your experience may differ.

3. Paint flat sides with black acrylic latex paint

Good luck regardless of what you do.

In the simplest form, what you propose is what I would do, except I'd use something with the consistency of grease.

Thick enough to stay where I put it, even on a vertical wall. I'd put this on the entire surface, like plaster.

You have replaced the wood with marine ply, so far so good. The standards for marine ply refer to the bonding agent and the presence, or rather the absence of cavities in the intervening plys. The species of timber used is not prescribed and as such many 'marine plys' are made with hoop pine. As it is a pine it will shrink and expand with the seasons. In my part of the world the timber on my racks can go down to 1% moisture and up to 15%. So i paint my structures with an oil modified acrylic that lasts for 12 years or more in temperatures up to 45 deg C. This type of paint stretches with the timber much more than any other.

Brands are Dulux, Taubmans, British Paints, Solver, Wattyl....

I would warn against any sort of thick coating as in my experience there ends up being a separation between the wood and the coating which allows the water to push the coating off with so called 'hydro static pressure,' resulting in blisters.

I would also avoid filling the gaps in the corners; a hard filler will cause the boards to break their fasteners when the wood expands again. A soft filler will extrude and make a rough rubbery looking edge when the wood expands. Again the voice of experience.

The advantage for you is that the job is as simple as painting. After you have removed all the old paint that is ( which you would have to do in any case ).

I hope this helps and remember the KISS principle

Jim

I would think of the following:

1) Black roofing sealer or paint

2) Latex Driveway coating (non-filler type)

3) Black Bottom Paint-specifically designed for wood hulls rather than fiberglass hulls

All 3 tend to be thicker than your normal paint and weather proof to a good degree and somewhat flexible by make-up.

Well,

I struck out at the paint store. They have nothing in a black and suggested I patch and then paint.

You should have sent the robot. He wouldn't have taken that for an answer.

You have replaced the wood in a previous upgrade; how long ago was that? This thing sort of sounds like it is (or is becoming) a maintenance headache.

I am wondering if the roof cement idea has merit, but I can see some maintenance issues for your successor with that.

Next time I will send the robot, with instructions to take no prisoners!

Anyway, I've decided to abandon the one setp approach in favor of using a black polyurethane caulk to seal the cracks and that will give me time to explore other paint options.

Besides, I have bigger problems. Theives have begun to steal the bronze letters that are attached to some of our permanent sculpture bases around town. These are about half pound each and can be sold readily to scrap dealers.

Now's when I really wish I had that robot and could equip him with a phaser set to.............well, you get the message.

Stealing your letters!, Why those knuckle-draggin' mouth-breathin' window-lickers!

This calls for the early release of the LynDoor™ Defense Technologies newest autonomous assault device. We call it Say Hello To My Little Friend:

We tested these on the film RoboCop. We had to rework the agression subroutines down a few notches and we reduced the ammunition reserve to 8,000 rounds, but these should still be effective in your application. I have placed a promotional order for you, so you should see three of these in about two weeks.

I should probably ask you: These ridiculously overfirepowered clumsy cartoonish enforcers with extremely poor decision-making abilities and even worse aim wandering the streets of your beloved city isn't a problem for you, is it?

[edit] You could prolly send one of these to the paint store. Take no prisoners is already burned into the chipset, and I can't figure out how to get rid of it.

Great! Just what I needed.

I'll put two of them on night patrol and program the other one to hunt down and annihilate a couple of rude, over-bearing shop owners (Not property owners) who think that they purchased the keys to the city when they signed the lease for their piddly little shops.

_{I'm still working on the hostile takeover of that other company who tries to compete with us.}

I have purchased a black PU sealer in a caulking tube.

I will patch the seams and cracks.

Yup, Lyn, copper, aluminum, and brass theft is all the rage, worldwide. Everybody is ducking responsibility.

The buyers claim total ignorance of any theft, and buy anything that comes through the door, no questions asked.

The cops can't be bothered to catch petty criminals. Interferes with donut time.

The courts don't want to prosecute, the jails are full.

To sell gold, photo ID is required. The law needs to be increased to include copper, aluminum, and brass. Until this is done, the thieves have free run

It's going to be up to the citizens to raise holy hell to the lawmakers to get this fixed.

From what I see, we property owners are sheep to be shorn. We obviously have more than we need, and the poor hapless druggies need to make a living, right?

There used to be a rubberized primer used in conjunction with a rubberized top coat that was used for motorhome and mobile home roofs. Very stretchy and resilient. I think it was from Snow (Sno) Coat. I don't know how UV resistant the primer would be or if there is an elastomeric rubberized coating available in black. Another option might be to apply a couple layer of fibreglass cloth and resin over the wood. A gel coat over that might last quite a while. It might chalk after a while but recoating would be easy.

Resin is too messy. I must be VERY careful to not get anything on the metal, because cleaning it will alter the appearance.

I'm leaning toward some type of Hypalon^® coating, although I understand that DuPont quit making it two years ago.

I have purchased a black polyurethane for crack sealing, which I will do next week.

How about ferrocementing the whole structure??

Neatly cover up the whole structure with fine metal gauze and then smooth it down with cement mortar mixed with black ebony pigment or dye.Then if needed you can finish off with any polymer to withstand weather

Get the artist's permission, load it in the back of your truck, bring it to the next Burning Man event, pour flammable liquid on it, light it on fire, drink several shots of tequila with your bride and dance under the moonlight.

Nope,

I'm gonna save it. I've decided to seal the major cracks next week.

Speaking of tequila, my friend from California just came to town and gave me a bottle of Don Julio, Real. $330.00 USD/bottle. I didn't realize booze could cost that much.

I appreciate the fact that he goes to the store and buys it himself, as much as the cost.

I'll post B & A pictures.

I hope you mean pictures of you before the expensive tequila, and after pictures of you with your ass in the air and your head in the toilet.

Can I come with some thermite?

I'll build a plinth for whatever is left

I got invited to burning man one time. Skipped it. I wasn't afraid to go...................................I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to leave.

Come on up. Love to have you.

We have a little celebration each July 4th here in the USA.

We light some stuff on fire then. We try not to burn holes in the street.

try this out!

To Blacken Wood

''Presto magazine (sometimes called Presto Musical Times) was published in Chicago from circa 1888 to 1903. The following article was first printed in the October 14, 1897 issue. It is reprinted for your edification; we accept no responsibility for damages real or consequential. MIH

M. Konick, in the British Journal of Photography, suggests the following method of blackening wood, which has the advantage of resisting acids and alkalies:

A Cuprice cloride, 75 parts Sodium chlorate, 67 parts Water, 1000 parts B Aniline hydrochlorate, 150 parts Water, 1000 parts

Paint the wood with A and a short time after with B, and remove with a damp cloth the yellow powder that forms. Repeat this operation every day till the desired color is obtained, and then rub the wood with vaselin or linseed oil. By using potassium bichromate instead of the soda salt, a good black color is obtained at once.''

http://www.mugwumps.com/blacken.html

Or,

Ebonizing

Black is Beautiful

http://www.egcc.biz/workshop/e/ebonising.htm

Today, I began scraping the joints that will be resealed.

Tomorrow the scaling paint will be removed.

On Friday, I'll seal them.

Next week, I'll apply the top coat.

Post 44 "I'd like to get it all done in a single day." Scope inflation? Sounds like one of my little projects.

Reality smacked me in the face. Some of the seams are over 1/8 (.125) inch wide.

I opened them up today and decided that a single material solution may be a dream.

I'll use the PU caulk for seams and some crack filling, then a flexible spray coat over that after it's cured.

I want a high build final coating as that's more the original texture/look of the original coating.

Cheers.

So kind! - it would be rude not to now!

So Lyn...how'd it go? Pictures!!!!!