Run Your Truck on Wood Chunks

Link?

Are you talking about wood alcohol or gas vapor, like methane?

I'm all for these things too. Before I invest much time and energy into any of them, I want someone to show me how the EPA isn't a giant elephant in the room that is going to hobble or dismantle my efforts.

Since lyn's got me drinking tequila, I'm just going to say this.............There's a d*mned good reason that alternative fuels aren't flourishing right now in the US. It's freaking government intervention in everything.

Go try to set up a still in your yard to make wood alcohol and let me know how it turns out.

Not yelling at you ron, I'm just getting pretty d*mned frustrated with the inept a**holes that we've put in charge.

You and I are on a similar wave length, I am putting my efforts in online. I think you should read Thoreau'e essay "Civil Disobedience ." It is one way to force change. The EPA and other governmental agencies are unable to enforce silly and stupid laws. They pick and choose what and when to enforce rules and laws. Part of the issue is who is in power, and who is doing what. The only way to "keep" America free, as if it were, is to test the limits of our freedom. You can do it quietly and surreptitiously, or openly and blatantly. This one gentleman has put 250,000 miles on his truck He says the emissions are good. Please examine the information when you have time.

I will. I prefer to make my statements out in the open. I expect the government to tell us about their new rules and mandates in the same manner....................and explain to us in very clear speech, the reasoning behind each and every one of them.

The day I become afraid to say something out loud and out in the open, is the day that America is no longer what it once was. I intend to be very vocal and involved for as long as it is allowed.

It took me a couple of months to get a license to just make little painted signs out of my home. My county shot down my pleas completely, and basically told me tough luck. I had to get in touch with the state dept of commerce to trump the ruling here in the county. This involved hours on the phone and internet research of every stupid little law, rule and mandate.

I can't even imagine attempting to distill alcohol for home fuel use.

Lets not forget...................think about denatured alcohol. We are talking about people that would prefer to poison their citizens, than have them avoid paying taxes on consumable alcohol.

They have no interest in having individuals making their own fuel. Any alternative must be able to be properly taxed, hence the encouragement of large operations.

I would move to a county known for lax regulations. Usually one with low population density, and buy a home with a few acres off the main roads. Then you can do pretty much whatever you want in a large shed. Just don't show a lot of smoke. Stills can also be made portable. You could take it to an out of the way area, or a friends property. Not a lot of space is involved. Maybe rent part of a large shed. Make your months supply of ethanol one batch at a time. Don't look for just problems, look for solutions too. I live in the city limits on one acre, and I think I could do it if I built another garage. I would build it on a trailer though, in case I was shut down.

I could probably get away with it where I live. Running the risk of going to jail for 5 years to save on energy costs doesn't interest me. Apparently I could get a federal permit. It involves time, money, intensive record keeping, and essentially giving them permission to do pop inspections and audits, whenever they want..................again, no thanks.

I like the wood gas concept. Although for me, I think my best use of the technology, would be to have a wood gas powered generator out in the yard, rather than converting a vehicle. I can probably get unlimited wood chips.

I really agree with you! Then you could also buy an electric car, if it met your needs, or convert one. Great idea. You could also use the waste heat , as needed, for heating your home, including water. Similar to using a boiler.

It looks very feasible...........and probably not illegal. Run the wood gas tank to a small 4 cylinder engine and couple that to a generator. I don't use much electricity, but it would be nice to have a reliable backup that didn't rely on conventional fuel.

Especially if you could sell overage to the utility company. You will need batteries, and you could run it at night if quiet enough. You could use a gas air conditioner also. Maybe compress the gas for vehicles too. You will need a good passive ventilation system, but you are much more knowledgeable than I.

I'm definitely not more knowledgeable. If I ever wanted to do something, I used to go to the library.....................the internet has made just about every project under the sun doable. I'll tackle anything if I can find the pertinent information.

If you decide to do this project, send me the specs. I will calculate the air emissions for you. The other issue that you will have to make sure isn't a problem is the odor. Not that it is a problem if you design and operate the system properly. Still, there are local odor ordinances that are enforced by local codes officials. Me personally, I would be contacting by certified mail every police station, and agency that might have an interest in this if I were doing the project. I would even invite them out to observe the operation and ask for documentation (e.g. a written report) of the visit.

I make furniture out of my home to sell. I don't bother with the bureaucratic process. Many immigrants who come to this country "play ignorant" (Oh, I didn't know I needed a license). They open restaurants, run fishing boats do carpentry, etc without bothering about regulations. They do this until the law catches up to them, pay their $200 fine, get the license and meantime, they have made hundreds of thousands of dollars. They know how to survive while odds are stacked against them. I used to follow the letter of the law. What has it got me? I struggle every day to stay afloat.

BTW, during WWII, vehicles all over the world used to have a gas generator attached to their vehicle. It would burn wood and the gas that resulted could be fed into the carburettor. I even saw one about 40 years ago running in San Francisco. I think that was the time of long lines at gas stations.

It's reaching the point where trying to play by the rules is incomprehensible. It's difficult to even find out what the rules are. I was in a wholesale club the other day and the guy at the cigarette counter had a $1200 bill....................he paid cash in $1s and $5s. I asked the guy in front of me, what the hell? And he told me that these guys fly completely under the radar................they have little stores, they are illegal, and they pay no taxes. Meanwhile, I'm paying about 45% between SS, state and federal taxes.

Go ahead and sell your furniture. If you get caught you go to a country club with free healthcare. It could be worse.

Actually its legal to have your own still to make your own alcohols up to a surprisingly large volume for personal use.

As long as you are not selling it you are legally allowed to distill what ever you want within reason( I cant find my book that says exact amount but I think its a few thousand gallons) no permits required providing your local zoning laws allow for the fires, mechanical systems, and what related to the operation of the still of course.

As a last resort it doesn't hurt to read up on the laws that relate to what you are planing to do either. The powers that be tend to put fairly large loop holes in said laws but you have to be willing to actually do the work to read and find them first of course. Just going by what the foil hat guy on the street corner says in not the best source of info on whats actually legal or illegal in pretty much every situation yet oddly the general public seems to be more willing to go by his less than correct opinion Vs checking to actually see what the official books truly say in print.

Then again don't ask don't tell and don't draw attention to yourself unless asked works quite well in most areas too.

Good advice. Alcohol Can Be a Gas is an excellent reference on making your own alcohol, and running your vehicle on it. No taste testing allowed.

I'm in North Carolina. I'll check into it, but I'm almost positive that Jim Crow is alive and well here. These laws don't disappear.

Jim Crow laws were invented by democrats to prevent black people from doing well............................keeping them in their place. They are still in effect, and now apply to everyone. They enforce them when they feel like it.

I'll do some research before I jam my foot completely in my mouth, and report back.

"

Biofuels Industry Development Grants

The North Carolina Green Business Fund (Fund) provides grants to private businesses with fewer than 100 employees, nonprofit organizations, local governments, and state agencies to encourage the expansion of small and medium sized businesses and to help grow a green economy. One of the Fund's priority areas is the development of the biofuels industry in the state. The North Carolina Department of Commerce may make grants available to maximize development, production, distribution, retail infrastructure, and consumer purchase of biofuels, including grants to enhance biofuels workforce development. (Reference North Carolina General Statutes 143B-437.4)"

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/laws/laws/NC

It ain't happening in NC. Not without spending thousands in paperwork BS.

You're fortunate to live in a state that hasn't caved in to stupidity. I hope you can keep it that way.

"Taxpayers who construct, purchase, or lease renewable energy property are eligible for a tax credit equal to 35% of the cost of the property. Renewable energy property includes equipment that uses renewable biomass resources to produce ethanol, methanol, biodiesel, or methane produced from anaerobic biogas, using agricultural and animal waste or garbage; and related devices for converting, conditioning, and storing the liquid fuels and gas produced with the biomass equipment. The taxpayer must take the credit in five equal installments beginning with the taxable year in which the property is placed into service. There is a maximum credit amount of $2.5 million per installation, which applies to renewable energy property placed in service for any purpose other than residential. Property must be placed into service before January 1, 2016. (ReferenceNorth Carolina General Statutes 105-129.15 and 105-129.16A)"

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/laws/laws/NC

which applies to renewable energy property placed in service for any purpose other than residential.

Doesn't do me much good does it? Thanks for making my point.

Small scale alternative fuel production is particularly well suited for home use....................as you've pointed out, it's not allowed.

He is talking about getting a tax credit, not for personal use. Do you want to sell fuel? That is a different bag of worms.

No I don't want to sell it.

Deleted

You are confusing the making of alcoholic beverages by the fermentation process, i.e. beer and wine, with distilled alcohol.

In the United States you ARE allowed to produce something like 100 gallons/year of beer or wine for personal consumption. To legally produce distilled spirits in the United States requires permits/licences form the Department of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives.

Other countries, e.g. New Zealand, allow distillation of spirit's for personal consumption. Sadly; not the United States.

The federal government allows home brewed ethanol with a simple? permit. alcoholcanbeagas.com offers a lot of information. I am not aware of any state laws that overrule this process, but there may be a lot of officials that would assume it is illegal. The ethanol cannot be consumed by humans however, or you could lose your still. Local laws could probably be found to shut you down, if you have assholes for local officials, or the neighbors are jealous. I doubt any special laws address wood chunk engines, aside from the emissions. Alcohol production is a lot more practical, but you have to have a source of appropriate vegetation or whatever to make it with. If you raise animals you could also use methane. The site has books on small and large methane production, with how to build the equipment.

Byproduct is a lot of charcoal? Run a bar-b-que on the side!

I think MEN had a blurb on a bus running on wood gas back in the late 70s also. Not a new technology, just one that needs a lot of time and space to utilize.

I heard they run powerplants by woodgas known as Dendro power.

At to-day's cost of crude oil $150 per barrel has made common man most suffering person. This has resulted in rise in cost of transportation, cooking gas LPG,Industry, power, etc. Many of the countries are economically affected by such an high rise of crude.

Many Governments are offering subsidiaries for petrol, diesel, fertilisers etc. Which has affected overall economic growth and spending on social services provided by the Govts. Now where is the hype created for Iran, about Nuclear Plants? Was it just to increase the price of the crude oil?.

With forth coming of elections in U.S we have to be prepared for such shocks.Elections means more funds which are to burdened on the common man.

Regardless of what alternate fuel we use, the fed will always get involved. Present gasosine taxes go toward highway maintenance and new construction. The fed would be losing revenue. Maybe we can register all our vehicles as "farm" vehicles

autobloggreen.com has a new article on the Denver Zoo's efforts to capture methane from all its poo. I recently read another article about a VW in Germany that runs on human sourced methane. VW also now sells vans that run on CNG or petrol. They are not sold in the USA. Wonder why?

Petrol is gasoline, right? We have those...

We also have CNG in the states but mostly in fleet sales...think city vehicles and buses (The US mostly uses it to heat our homes). The low energy per unit value of CNG has kept it down as a motor vehicle fuel. Natural gas contains approximately 1,030 BTU per cubic foot and propane contains 2,490 BTU per cubic foot, gasoline is in the neghborhood of 120,000 BTU per gallon. I know that is over-simplification, but you get the idea...it's ballpark. The amounts needed to maintain the distance between fill-ups would take up too much space in the average vehicle and would be seen as a nuisance. The tanks for gaseous fuels are also much heavier than for gas and diesel, so there goes more mileage. Propane in my state...Washington...was around two dollars a gallon when I had my 300 gallon tank last filled...so there is definitely info to compare but it nearly all balances out...except for the space issue.

Americans, apparently, also want speed and distance with their efficiency. The diesels that offer both are prohibitively expensive to get them into the market...another factor altogether.

I like the gasifier systems from a technological standpoint as well...I just don't think people want all of that tankage and gee-gaws stuck all over their nice new Porsches or SUV's. I would also wonder where people are going to get all of that wood from...logging and land management practices have changed dramatically over the last 20-30 years. Lord knows where we will be with that in another 20 (or when the oil runs out). Plus...people who use wood or wood-based products for heating will be out in the cold if the price of wood skyrockets just to fuel our vehicles. A cord of wood has gone up over 400% in my state over the last 20 years alone...sounds a lot like gasoline, doesn't it?

Methane is interesting...I would think we have enough crap in America.

"I would think we have enough crap in America."

Of course. We have Congress. My brother used to say that the reason Washington, DC is usually about 10 degrees warmer than its suburbs is all the hot air rising from C(r)apital Hill.

You mention creating a shortage of firewood. There is no shortage of natural gas, so using firewood shouldn't be an issue except for those who have it freely available and want to use it. Trimming trees on a few acres of land is enough to supply firewood for a small landowner. You don't cut down the trees, you just "pollard" certain types of trees. This allows the tree to continue growing with all of its root system intact. Pollarding is common in Europe, and you see people carrying loads of branches to burn. It maximizes firewood productivity. Branches are much easier to collect than logs, need no splitting, and can easily be cut up into any length desired. I have an electric pruner that does just that. I rarely use it because natural gas is so cheap. CNG can be shipped in containers just as LPG is.

Some trees grow fast and branches could be harvested every 2 or 3 months and used for power generation. One of them is gilic.....(do not remember well)

I cannot get nearly enough branches to heat my home through the winter and I would imagine others in the northern parts of the US would have the same issue. that would require a culture change where I would have a house 1/3 or 1/2 the size I currently have. I only heat about 1/3 during the day anyway, and less at night. I went through a cord of wood already and I normally use electric. My branches large enough to burn at a decent rate went looong ago. Most folks in the Pacific Northwest don't bother with pollarding...we take the whole tree and re-plant...and before any green weenies get all upset...we have more acreage of green in Washington (which I can speak to) now than we have had at any other time in recent history...unless you go back to when logging started.

Here again, I am burning wood straight...which is more inefficient than many other methods and more damaging to the atmosphere. CNG must come from new sources whic are non-renewable and possibly damaging to the environment (fracking--still waiting for all that to settle).

It's true CNG is cheap...but is it right? Oil was very cheap at one time, wasn't it?

One of the most obvious sources of energy, (among other things), that we should be looking at, is hemp. Unfortunately, in the US, arcane laws make the cultivation of hemp, (despite the fact that it is useless as an adulterant), illegal.

Yet another instance in which we claim to be serious about saving the planet, alternative energy production, global warming, etc., and simultaneously hobble ourselves with with the idiocy that festers and grows in Washington.

It's one of the fastest growing and most productive plants on the planet, and yet we refuse to utilize it because someone might try to smoke it. If they did smoke it, they would probably only get a headache, and be very disappointed.

Emissions better than an entire power plant?