Car Batteries

"Placing an ordinary flashlight battery in series with the car battery will enable it to start." Sounds more like a good way to start a fire... no, on second thought not a good way, but will probably start a fire anyway.

"Older cars with auto transmissions could be push started over 35 mph. Is this still true with modern cars?" Never heard that, automatics (I thought) could never be started on compression. Manual transmission, this is no trouble.

Sometime in the '60's or '70's automatic transmissions started being designed with the oil pump in the front of the transmission instead of the rear. With it in the rear, pressure and lubrication was provided and allowed the transmission to turn the engine when pushed at 30 to 35 mph.

No, No Yes, No. Early (1950 and early 60's) transmissions had 2 pumps, one in front running at engine speed, the other in back running at raod speed, so they cloud be push started. -- JHF

Sorry Lyn. Didn't see a reply to #1 so I jumped in before reading on.

Please,

No apology necessary.

We've probably all done it.

1. BANG!

2. Strangely - partly true. If the battery is actually almost fully charged but very COLD. Turning on the headlights causes the battery to warm up and may actually help to get it to supply more current to the starter. They wuld have to be on for many minutes to help.

3. True of older cars. My 1967 Humber Super Snipe with A Borg Warner 35 Auto has a rear tailshaft driven pump as well. I have actually selected neutral while travelling down a hill at about 30MPH, turned the ignirion of, turned it back on, then selected drive and it started the engine with no trouble. I've tried to push it up to speed on our downhill work carpark with no success at all - that could be my firness....

Don't know about them new modern automobiles though.

Only a few days a go.. watching TV as you do, and i can't remember which channel... they were talking about starting cars with old batteries.

The solution was a glass of red wine in the battery, leave it 30 mins and away to go!

No I did not dream it!

It was explained away that the acid in the wine would rejuvenate the charge/cells to produce power(???)

Starting batts as used in vehicles- were made with antimony-lead grids- since 1995 made with calcium alloy-lead grids- were flooded lead acid- now AGM- some- what worked with 1 type may not work with other- red wine is new one to me- but citric acid eg added to batt corrodes plates very quickly- as does over charge- really batts(starter are made to put out high power for design period- can be up to 7 years if batt not abused)-calcium alloy fail by positive plate disintegration- all else being equal- so can no longer deliver starting current- in this case, NO trick will help-except of course a booster battery- to start vehicle only! I recommend Battery University to update your knowledge - where I also comment.

WALOOB... it will intercourse the battery
Del

In 1979, a boat crew stuck at the locks at Fort Augustus, Caledonian Canal, had time pressure to get back to Inverness. The fault turned out to be low battery water level. The solution was to tip a few cups of loch water into the battery to raise the level. It got the engine turning over and started, enabling the cruise to be completed in time and incurring no hire penalties, though the battery probably wasn't much use for much longer and thereby became somebody else's problem.

So the glass of wine might be a short-term fix.

Well yes that's pretty much what I thought.. do you really want to stuff a £60 battery though? Better solution is drink the bottle glass bottle of wine and stop up she bafterys with shom dishtishtish waters from zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz <flump>
Del

Oh, dear. Del's conked out.

Spare battery, anyone?

I don't think he's conked out completely. More likely running a bit low and and needing to get jumped to get moving again.

1st medic - CLEAR!!! ZAAAP thump.

2nd medic - Hurry up and hit'em again.

1st medic - No need. Can't you see he's breathing and comin' round?

2nd medic - Sure but it was fun and I want to see him make that face again.

1st medic - Yeah, that was pretty funny. CLEAR ZAAAP, ZAAP, ZAP, buzz, click.

2nd medic - Oh bloody hell the battery is given' out. Hey do you still have the flash light in your pocket?

1st medic - No. I'm just happy to see you.

1st medic - No, I don't. I'll just use the tazzed. "Stop resisting. Stop resisting." ZAPP BUZZZZZZZZZ. Thump, thump.

Peeing into the cells would be more effective, it doesn't damage the battery, either.

Becareful of the splashing and remeber to wear your goggles so you don't burn your eyes.

That's useful to know for when there isn't any loch water available. Thanks.

My Jeep is a 98 w/5spd and without switching a fuse in the fuse box from manual to automatic it won't roll start. There is a neutral safety lockout or something. The down side of doing this is that you can crank the key with the Jeep in gear, without holding the clutch in, and it will lurch to a start.

Jeep used to ( maybe still does) call being able to start while in gear a positive feature for offroading. If you get hung up on a hill and stall it's possible to get started without rolling back, or spinning the wheels.

But for some reason Jeeps require you to have your foot on the brake to start. At least the automatic versions do.

1 & 2: Don't try it at home!

Your post is so full of misinformation as to be another joke, or crock.

what's wrong with my post??? Why can't you be explicit rather than maligning my posts as off side?? In fact your present post is off topic having nothing in substance

Never mind.

You are entittled to your opinion just as the rest of us are.

Please Lyn...be explicit

Nothing to add.

As with most threads here, this one has taken on a life of its own. There are many divergent opinions, some right, some not so right.

It's up to the OP, not me, to determine the validity/usefullness of the information provided here, regardless of my opinion.

Lyn, I have to agree with you. You are among the few who actually reads a post and makes comments accordingly. Others seem to ignore whe wording of the OP and go of on a different track. Some of the replies here were a direct response to the question, while others were telling me how much the cost of tea is in China. This indicates to me that some don't bother to read rhe thread completely or just don't comprehend the question being asked. I try to express myself clearly.

Agreed, and thanks.

If only there were an easy way to separate the wheat from the chaff.

1/1...you can 'jump-start' any weak battery by connecting another battery temporarily to it until the car starts.

Do you mean another car battery?

Preferably Yes.

I think there might be some misunderstanding about the flashlight battery as it is stated. An ordinary flashlight battery today can mean anything from AAA to D here in the USA depending on who you talk to. All having around 1.25 volts and the amps available are so small they are measured in mAh. But "over the years" cars used to be 6V and so were flashlights if it was intended to refer to the lanterns using 6V batteries. I was born in the 70's and we had several of these around the house and a 6v car. Again the amps are small but there is not a definition here for "weak". So it might be possible to be just close enough to starting that it could work. Like say a dome light left on for a long period. In that case the car battery is not corroded and dying it is just weak. I am not an EE so this is just an uneducated guess.

You are right, normal flashlight battery doesn't have enough current to augment the weak battery. However, some rechargeable flash/emergency lights

are equipped with multiple batteries in a row and might help but I have not tried them ....no need, in fact. In my opinion It's better to buy a new battery rather than waste time struggling with a weak battery...

I am not sure about auto transmission cars being able to be pushed or pulled but in the late 70's my brother's Mercs won't budge after catching 'fever' on a bridge! Normally, auto transmission cars are not push-startable!

All covered.........

''Did You Know.....

from the horse's mouth!

A battery's job is to store electricity. We all know this much about them. Not everyone knows that if a battery (which doesn't hold a full charge) is (continuously used) in a vehicle, it will likely shorten the life of both the starter and alternator (this includes any battery used to jump start a vehicle). The starter doesn't have adequate power for starting, and the alternator is constantly trying to charge a battery which cannot accept a full charge.

Heavy Duty (thicker gauge) cables and clamps improve jump starting performance greatly.

The quality of the connections to the battery is important. Without good contact, the battery cannot receive or deliver electricity effectively.
If the battery to be boosted is either too hot or too cold, heating or cooling it closer to ideal temperatures will improve boosting performance
This is also the case with the engine to be started. A very cold or very hot engine may be harder to start.

WARNING- Never flood a hot engine with cold water as you may cause serious damage. Badly corroded battery terminal connections can cause sparks. Batteries can explode if gases from within are ignited by a spark or flame. Always exercise caution. It is a wise practice to wear protective glasses when working with batteries.
A battery can lose its charge from being dirty. (Electricity 'leaks' across the dirt and oil, which is present on the case of a dirty battery, from one terminal to the other. This will discharge the battery).
Slow charging is better than fast charging.
If jump starting does not work, your battery may be absorbing too much of the electrical current needed to start your car. You can also try removing (just for a moment), the negative cable end from the battery and connecting the battery jump starter to the now disconnected cable end. This reduces the draw of the dead battery on the starting job. Immediately upon starting the negative cable should be returned to its connected position on the negative battery post. Leaving the negative battery cable disconnected may increase the possibility of damage to your alternator, so do not forget to reconnect it after starting

Some drivers report using a liquid to 'help' the electricity more efficiently travel from the battery through the cable connections to the starter. If a liquid which can conduct electricity, is poured on the connections between the battery and the cables, it may help start some vehicles which didn't start even with the help of a powerful jump starter. It might temporarily improve the connections enough to make a difference. I do not recommend this practice without first consulting with a knowledgeable advisor.''

Battery State of Charge - (at approx 85 degrees Fahrenheit)

12.70v . . . . . . . . . . 100%
12.48v . . . . . . . . . . 75%
12.25v . . . . . . . . . . 50%
12.05v . . . . . . . . . . 25%
11.90v . . . . . . . . . . 0%

About Jump Starters...

''Battery jump starters work by using a self contained battery to provide electricity temporarily to start and run a vehicle or provide power to an electrical device. Connections are made through cables with clamps at the ends(some units have additional connections options for various popular devices like ipods, phones, TV). The starter jumper may be temporarily used in place of a battery in an emergency in some cases.''

Jump Start Kit...

Battery Jump Starter Product Features

* Includes on/off switch for safety, built-in work/emergency light, charging level/battery indicator gauge, AC/DC power cord for charging in vehicle
* Heavy-duty impact-resistant polyethylene case with rubber base
* 74 inch 4-gauge PVC coated cables that remain flexible in extreme cold temperatures
http://www.squidoo.com/battery-jump-starters#module133514021

Not wanting to start a contest here but here goes anyway.

New battery - yep great idea if your not stranded as I think that is what is being implied

Push start older automatic tranny - seen it done never tried personally

battery stores electricity - yep thought it was kinda common knowledge

Bad battery shortens life of starter -suppose makes sense as Low volts = high amps

Shorter life of alternator - dunno

Heavier cables for jump starting - yep spend the extra they are worth it

battery connections - yep they are important too

Cooling battery or heating it - never tried

Cold or hot engine hard to start- yep I agree

Cold water hot engine - thermal shock and cracking - yep

Safety glasses - yep been there when a battery exploded. very bad situation

Slow vs fast charge - heard argued both ways no clue which is better

Disconnecting battery to jump start - I wont try that on a new car - tends to fry sensitive electrical stuff and I can't move as fast as electricity AC or DC

Liquid to help conduct electricity - never tried - a few taps with the back of a buck knife worked though

Facts on jumper boxes - they only work if they are charged. Bought one for daughter to keep in her trunk because it also had an air pump on it. She never checked it to make sure it was charged. Dead when she needed it. Dad should have checked it but outta sight outta mind. My fault.

<<<<<<<<<<<<New battery - yep great idea if your not stranded as I think that is what is being implied>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Many years ago, on my visit to New Castle I got stranded- my rented car having a breakdown. I left the car there ,just rang up the rent-a-car company and they sent me another vehicle. Supposedly that had been my car I would have tried to get help failing which I would have called the lifter, had a cold beer and off!

For jeez I wouldn't travel on the highway with a car in poor condition. That will not only risk my life but also pose risk to others. Buying a new battery for you seems to be the best choice.

I would say that putting the current necessary to start most cars through a D cell would not be pretty...

THAT may be fun to try...I'll let you know...maybe I can get it to blow up in my face!

PLEASE do think I was suggesting that. I just wanted to throw out the possibility that this bit of information might have originated way back when other voltages were more common.

Don't try this at home. I am not even a paid professional.

I liked your analogy to the 6V...it sounds quite plausible.

I try to injure myself all of the time...and nobody pays me anything...not even attention!

I think Mazhur's description is very detailed. From personal experience, pushing a car with automatic transmission just to start will not work..

If battery terminals show sign of buildup, pouring coke also helps (phasphoric acid)

Just remembered where this story may have originated- YES we did use a dry cell or 2 to start a car- BUT the cell/s were applied in series to the ignition coil + terms. Makes sense- & yes- used to work. A starter batt with a dead cell will only deliver nom 10v- under starter load- coil volts say 8v- not enough- though engine may turn over- the addition of an extra 1.5-3v to coil terminal made all the difference! And quick disconnect once engine was running! There was even a circuit from a electronics mag (Aussie). The circuit was popular in areas where winter snow was an occurrence( you all know that batts at lower temps can not deliver full power)- also a kettle of boiling water poured over a cold car batt used to work wonders!.

That's useful to know ， the auto is many oil ~

Thanks for that LJ- new one to me- but makes sense- I will keep in mind & try- I run pre 1985 vehicles- this is possible on them. And NO- we are not better off- my std car gets 38mpg- coasting down hills I get 50mpg- 1978 vintage!. And I can fix it myself!(as I would if I had latest whizbang anyway!) BUT a lot simpler!.(And cheaper!).

Thanks for a great story.

Very interesting! Another post mentioned pull starting a boat. Don't see why not. When I was racing single engine boats and working on the pit crew for twins, the drivers always said if one engine started, as soon as the boat planed off the second engine would light without ever hitting the start button. JHF -- P.S. I, too, question if we are better off. My parents '47 Stupidbaker flat head 6, 3 speed OD, got 33 MPG up and down the Topanga hills in the late 40's and early 50's. By today's standards that was a BIG car. Life peaked at the pop top beer can and twist off beer bottle cap.