Will (Lack Of) Water Be Our Undoing?

Given a choice......................I think I could get along just fine without oil.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/494958-how-long-can-the-average-human-go-without-water/

Would that be "on steroids" or "off steroids"??

With sufficient energy, even the most polluted water can be made potable.

As a result conflicts resulting from water scarcity will likely be indistinguishable from conflicts over sources of cheap energy.

That sounds feasible, but I think the desperation that could potentially erupt from mass water shortages would make them quite distinguishable from fights over energy.

Water sources will not all suddenly run dry. There may be some decrease in supply in some areas but mainly the growth in demand will cause the shortfall. This means the imbalance is likely to ramp rather than step. This is likely to allow enough time for the effect to be a strong steady increase in price, rather than shock and pandemonium.

Water is necessary for farming, manufacturing, power production, and individual use; a shortage of water would also mean a shortage of food, power, and manufactured goods. Because the symptoms will be so widespread and because a shortage of water can be remedied with cheap energy resources, it may be difficult to get support framing the problem as being caused by a shortage of water... even if that is a major contributing factor.

Cheap energy resources can quickly be allocated to create clean water and the infrastructure exists for transporting large quantities of fuel worldwide. Conflicts are likely to be focused on cheap energy resources.

because a shortage of water can be remedied with cheap energy resources.

I'm not looking to get too serious here, right off the rip. But I think that statement may qualify as an oxymoron.

I'm also not trying to just paint yet another doom and gloom scenario, but I think discussions on topics like this are critical.

kramarat:

I'm not saying that cheap energy sources are likely to be developed to remedy the problem.

I'm just saying that cheap energy sources will be sought as the solution to the problem.... It is the way we have approached problems for a long time. It is the paradigm that frames our reality. Even if we are beginning to change course, this is a huge ship and it is going to take a long time for a significant change in heading.

I know, I know.

Given the fact that this is an international forum, I try to take advantage of my our access to people from around the world, throw stuff like this out there, and gather various viewpoints from around the globe as to it's significance.

Nothing heavy...................just setting up some talking points for the weekend.

"I'm also not trying to just paint yet another doom and gloom scenario..."

Isn't that your signature theme? I think you spend too much time reading believing sensationalized news stories...Why don't you spend a little time doing some real research before doing the "Chicken Little" impression?

Actually a great deal of research has already been done on this topic.

There are close to 3 billion people on earth who do not have access to clean bathing water.

Drinking water aquifers are being depleted worldwide as population over taxes resources.

I believe it is safe to say that this planet will only support a given number of people. While we arguably haven't reached that number, is has been broached in some localized spots.

There are close to 3 billion people on earth who do not have access to clean bathing water.
You HAVE to BATHE?????????Geeeee the things i learn in this forum.

So what do you think about Texas A&M?

What, don't they bathe in Texas?

His tagline.

Oh, I get it. Aggies can't spell. They can't play football, either.

Wooooooooooo Pig Sooie, Go Razorbacks.

It's "Agro-Americans" or "soil brothers" -- "Aggies" is hate speech.

But seriously, thanks for bringing up the long-neglected water problem. The biggest threat to the water supply is the plan to store CO2 underground, displacing oceans of very salty brine.

Well, I hate to bring up yet another thorny issue, but here in NC, and I think around the country, we are heading toward doing some pretty serious fracking for natural gas. At the risk of being called chicken little again, I'm not convinced that this will have no impact on our aquifers. I'm not against it......................but I think it's important that we have a clear understanding of the potential risks to water supplies before we just jump into it.

I think the perception here is that I'm a complete anti regulatory zealot. That's not true.

I'm not comfortable with proprietary blends of chemicals being pumped into the ground with no oversight. Long after the natural gas is gone, this stuff will be sitting in the ground. I say find the safe ones..................and everybody uses those same blends. Somehow I don't think it would kill their profit margin.

Well(oops), I hate to be the one to throw fuel on the fire here, but toxic waste has been traditionally pumped into the ground via injection wells for as long as I can remember....(not as dramatic as it sounds)(what day is this?)

http://water.epa.gov/type/groundwater/uic/wells_class1.cfm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injection_well

Yes, and if you keep doing what you always did, you'll keep getting what you always got. In Spades!!! More groundwater pollution, that's what you'll get.

Are you saying this is a good thing???? Let's just keep pumping the shet into the ground because that's how we've always done it???

Let's bring DDT back. Build more coal fired factories, cause they were good for the economy.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

No, I'm a proponent of plasma based destruction of all toxic and hazardous waste...and have been since the beginning of time....possibly even before....

http://www.plascon.com.au/process-overview.html

I didn't realize you had been around that long. What was it like, before the beginning of time?

Pond scum.

Plasma for destruction of toxic and hazardous waste by cracking the molecular bonds requires scalable means for coupling energy into the waste. Your example of pond scum is a good case in point. Like manure, it's hard to pyrolyze because of all the water content.

CO2 could be cracked in this way, don't you think? The problem is how to couple the energy into the material magnetically or capacitively, plus maybe mechanically by shear assisted electrolysis. For example: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20090200176.pdf

Don't confuse him. He gets angry.

I do well here because I'm used to being the dumbest guy in the room. Solareagle is obviously used to being the smartest. We'll see how he fares. So far I'm not too impressed.

I've always found the information in The Wall Street Journal to be fairly reliable.

Here you go, dolt.

http://water.org/water-crisis/water-facts/water/

http://www.worldwatercouncil.org/index.php?id=25

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/world/2000/world_water_crisis/default.stm

http://ag.arizona.edu/AZWATER/awr/dec99/Feature2.htm

Now run along and find a funny picture on the internet.

"I've always found the information in The Wall Street Journal to be fairly reliable."

I don't see any links from the Wall Street Journal....

Dolt? Really? You know what they say about name calling....

While Kram looks for links to the Wall Street Journal, I can assure you desalination and other water purification technologies are alive and well....

I'm quite aware of that.

So all of the links in post #16 are coming from a bunch of bullsh*t chicken littles then, eh?

If you're not interested in the discussion simply unsubscribe.

Well I'm busy hoarding water for the upcoming war with Georgia....but every time I dig a hole to stash it, well I hit water....go figure

Coming this fall on NBC, the new reality show 'Water Wars". Thursday nights 8:00 eastern/ 7:00 central. Don't miss it.

Watch your favorite characters such solareagle fight off the pirates to protect what's his.

Hey, those pirates got big cannons dude...

We only got these things....↓

Lots of interesting links here................or more lies, if your name is solar eagle.

http://environment.about.com/od/biodiversityconservation/a/desalination.htm

http://environment.about.com/od/waterpollution/a/tap_water_probe.htm

Ironically, the worst, most chemical laden tap water in the US is in Pensacola, Fla. Drink up!!!!

Jacksonville, Fla is ninth worst.

Another liar in the comment section of the link. Silly chicken little.

Something is truly wrong with Pensacola Florida. I am from a family that grew up near Scenic Heights Elementary School since 1975. We grew up extremely healthy with no family history of cancer or illness.
Between 4 people - these are the illnesses that have occured:
2 brain tumors
1 breast cancer tumor (covered whole chest)
1 ovarian tumor
1 cancerous kidney tumor
1 missing adrenaline gland
2 missing thyroid glands

Something is seriously wrong. My prom date died from a brain tumor along with my neighborhood friend. Both were barely 30years old.

What about their dog? I don't see anything about the dog...

The poor dog was probably the first to go.

You got me on the bottled water, but I'm far from being convinced that fresh water isn't going to be a major global issue. Actually, I think it already is.

Well I agree that fresh clean water is a major global issue, in fact I think I did encourage desalination of seawater using waste heat from manufacturing several years ago....In fact suggesting development of multi-use nuclear facilities for energy production, desalination, and hydrogen production via molecular dissociation , as an interim goal, and eventually solar production of all three...I do believe we are firmly on that path today, and as resources become available we will avoid any catastrophic shortages...

I'm guessing that you're talking about primarily within the US.

This is an interesting site. Of course now that the bottled water scare has been brought into question, I don't know who these people are or if they are lying.

http://www.worldwater.org/conflict.html

Are you pretending not to know who Peter Gleick is? Well then you can do a search and see he is a science writer/researcher who takes himself too seriously and basically had some sort of meltdown trying to prove the legitimacy of global warming...He definitely has an agenda, which renders his publications as suspect...

Peter Gleick - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

yes, and the options are not many more... the investment to make it possible is the set back ( and perhaps forbidden)! I guess we have to count for now with private iniciatives and the clemency of good rulers to put a bet on such

That had to do with the geology of Florida with the coral just below the topsoil. As I understand it.

Interesting. The chemicals are leaching out of the coral?

Gee, I hope that doesn't affect any of the brewerys in Fla.

No, I believe where we in the northern states have bedrock, Florida has Coral and coral makes for a poor filtrate (actual 0, and so does bedrock, but coral is more pourous), on top of it, it has little top soil for filtering.

And because the water table is just below the surface, the watertable itself it keeps the salt water out, but when the water table drops, then the fresh water it gets contaminated from the ocean salt water. (yes, it has different mass)

I do not recall where I pick this up, I believe it was a seminar in a class I took. I'm sure there are some Floridians that can be more specific. I only repeat what I hear.......now I got to google it...............^{dam, I wish I never would have took that class}

Actually what we have instead of bedrock is carbonate rock (something we call limerock).

Thanks, It has been 20 years,

an excerpt:

Geology

The Florida peninsula is a porous plateau of karst limestone sitting atop bedrock known as the Florida Platform. The emergent portion of the platform was created during the Eocene to Oligocene as the Gulf Trough filled with silts, clays, and sands.

Gotcha......................the relatively thin layer of soil isn't adequate to filter out the water and the shallow aquifers sit on top of the rock.

Here's a good source of information for facts about Florida's water resource management...

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/water/

Gee all these links seem to trace back to EWG...

"That's because the EWG has a history of passing shady "science" off as solid facts. Their main talent isn't research, it's duping reporters into credulously transcribing their "findings." A nonprofit organization that has learned how to turn public panic into a stream of hefty donations, the Environmental Working Group has no problem ginning up outrage that causes families needless worry and does incalculable damage to honest industries. Hyperbole, it seems, is big business - last year the EWG raised more than $6 million."

http://activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/o/113-environmental-working-group

Good catch! I didn't realize they were a bunch of left wing radicals.......................of course they're going to stretch the truth or outright lie. They can't help it.

Man, I looked for other sources, and it looks like this group of lefty radicals has friends in the main stream media. Never mind the bottled water story. I guess you found a real lie. Good job.

With the UN involved, it's quite possible that you are right. This could all be a leftist scare tactic. Look how far they took the global warming hoax. Still at it too.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27185076/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition/t/your-pure-bottled-water-has-contaminants-too/

Why can't they be like we are, perfect in every way. (Bye Bye Birdie)

Soooo many lies solar eagle.........................who do you suppose is behind them?

http://www.ewg.org/reports/BottledWater/Bottled-Water-Quality-Investigation

You don't think there may be a connection between EWG and water filter manufacturers do you? Just askin'?

Many,Many year ago, the preacher Oral Roberts bought a little two room house and we tried our best to dig him a water well and keep hitting oil. nasty stuff to try to drink...

Not if you're the tin man....

On my original link look on the upper left.....................directly under Market Watch.

There is a Great Lakes Compact. And currently on the upper lakes some communities what to increase the water level, where the cost would range from ? to $8 billion. I thought if $8 billion was the high end, I thought that number was quite low.

Of course downstream to the lower great lakes will of course suffer with lower levels.

Yes, there are some dry south/southwest states that are eyeing up the plentiful Great Lakes.

I've got a buddy that lives just north of Atlanta that talks about water wars between Georgia and Florida...................maybe Alabama too.

I also have a brother in southwest New Mexico with a small farm. Water and water rights are serious business there.

I believe there are major water issues going on in the central valley of California also.

If I recall correctly, I think I read something about the entire American southwest experiencing potential water problems in the not too distant future. I was always amazed at the degree of water waste in Vegas.

There has always been water right issues in the southwest.

I also have a brother in southwest New Mexico with a small farm. Water and water rights are serious business there.

I believe they no longer can pull more out from the Colorado River.

Back in the early 90's, Coca-Cola want to make a water bottling plant in the great lakes area. The Great Lakes Compact basically stopped them........at the time, because the amount of water usage was phoeminal.

I'm pretty sure they are not even allowed to catch rain water where he lives.

Clever camouflage techniques to avoid arrest for rain water capture...

So is Solar Eagle now promoted out of the "dolt" category?

For the moment. Although this is the second one of my threads that he has attempted to derail. I have to consider anyone that shines light on liberal lies, a friend though.

Would that be the thread where you didn't want to allow the disabled vets into public pools?

Our problem is actually Global Filling. More people require more food , goods and water.

"Never do today what you can put of off until tomorrow - Student motto"

As long as Sun shines, there would be no dearth of water on earth. It is another thing that we cannot properly use this precious liquid, and go on blaming every one else.

While solar power is stupendous, our inability to use it at will is the cause of all our problems. If even 2/6000 th of Solar energy falling on the earth's surface could be directly converted to electricity, we will have double the availability of energy and with that versatile source, making potable water would be the least of the problems, what with 4/5ths of the earth's surface of water (May be brine), conversion to potable would be very easy with RO, desalination with distillation etc., already developed to a nicety.

Let us be optimistic, my dear forum members.

There's certainly no shortage of urine here. This is one of the longest pi$$in contests I've seem in a while.

Shucks, it beats a weekend of nothing but one star wonders for threads.

There's certainly no shortage of urine here.
BEER??????

I'll agree with solareagle that some of the links on here are run by people that have nothing but political motivations, but if you dig below the message, most of these have actual facts at the base. Some of the numbers are pretty staggering.

The numbers of kids that die in developing nations every year due to issues related to water is unconscionable.

You can't spin your gullibility into having some accidental wisdom...Nobody is arguing that lack of infrastructure and education, coupled with political instability, has created problems for people in 3rd world countries...and those problems are certainly not confined to drinking water...

It's not just 3rd world countries either.

Being on a well, it's something I think about. We had two drought summers in a row here........................to the point where a couple of primary reservoirs became mud puddles.

If my well goes dry, my property becomes worthess. Not sure why you want to turn the thread into something more than a discussion about current and future water needs, and how they will be addressed......................................but what the hell, as long as we're having fun I guess.

You do seem to be prone to exaggeration...If you're concerned about your water supply why don't you just do something about it...If you want a worry free life, you may have set your goals a little high to begin with eh?

If the water's poison, what difference does it make where it's stored?

At least you won't be thirsty.....

Yet another brilliant answer..............................maybe I can get a grant to build one.

Why not..

http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/wr/wrgp/wscg.html