Thermocouple Cable As Normal Cable?

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In theory because you've not specified which thermocouple cable you are considering and what will be the current running through this wire, one might be able to safely apply 230 vac to this cable. However, anyone who tries to do this in a permanent installation should get a dope slap really reconsider what they are doing before somebody gets hurt. Many individuals upon recognizing wiring as thermocouple wire will not consider this wire as having unsafe voltages applied to it. Bare thermocouple wires will be frequently found at the point "to be fused later" where a temperature measurement will be done. So casual contact with these bare wires will happen with anyone familiar with what and how a thermocouple works.

That being said, I can see applications with an isolated thermocouple module being used to measure the temperature of a 220VAC wire where both metal leads of the thermocouple are connected to a 220VAC conducting metal. In such a case wire insulation, barrier protection and proper safety labeling must be employed to keep things as safe as possible.

At the same time I see no proper use of thermocouple wire as the conductor providing the 220VAC to a load.

The insulation might not be adequate for the higher voltage.

Additionally your local electrical standards likely forbid (possibly in a vague and easy to miss way) the use of unsuitable wire for 230V single phase wiring, and thermocouple wire is not suitable for this application primarily due to the fact it is designed and insulated for extra-low loltages only.

That is NOT an engineering question.

that is an "I know absolutely nothing about basic science" statement.

yeah, go put 230 on a TC cable and watch the fireworks.

What fireworks?

You make the same mistake as the OP.

The number 230 is meaningless, without the rest of the equation, to give an idea of how much energy/power/juice/current the wire is carrying.

Finally, someone telling it like it is. Buddy, please take this comment seriously as what you are considering has the potential to cause major damage/injury/death or all three if your luck is running.

For god's sake, horses for courses. If you want to use 240Vac, single phase, then go and purchase the correct cabling, if you require something different, then go purchase that

(face palm, deep sigh)

Finally? Finally????

It's a mystery to me how some pud-knocker, who's been here almost a whole day, has it all figured out.

Please enlighten us as to the rest of our faults and short comings.

And tell us how you have arrived at your conclusions, after being given only one part of the equation. And, you didn't quote the OP correctly, either.

Do you know what an OP is?

This should be interesting.

So glad to have such a genius on this forum, not only one who considers themselves an 'old hand' but who has absolutely no idea about thermocouples or their usage, or for that matter - how long I have actually followed this forum.

Pud, looking forward to your continued "constructive" comments.

Most likely use the basic of ohms law V=E, I=current, r=ohms.

Generally speaking this wire is AWG 24 gauge and is rated max 24v....

http://www.omega.com/pptst/XC_E_TC_WIRE.html

Interesting self heating effect given the resistance of thermocouple wire:

18g copper 0.00639 ohms per foot
18g Type E 0.226 ohms per foot

Maybe there's no load at the far end?

Related to this, at 230V the T/C cable might also fail on voltage drop criteria.

Even it can be done you are creating a potential hazard.Common sense will tell you not to do it.However it can be used for a 4-20mA signal cable depending on the resistance.

Agree, the porous surface of the cloth insulation will allow arcing betwen two conductors just a couple thosandths apart from each other.

But as you say it could be used for a 4-20 mA signal, since the sending unit precisely compensates the current, no matter how much voltage drop (or added/subtracted uVolts due to thermocouple effect) there is is in the total wiring. That's the advantage of a current control signal over a voltage control signal.

Regards

the insulation between the two wires should withstand 230 Vac, but this varies from maker to maker, but most modern TC wire are PVC coated and should withstand 500 volts or more. The second aspect it current capability and the heating due to this passing current and the voltage drop on the line. Most TC wire would be OK for 1-2 amps, at most.

Why do you ask? Do you have runs of TC wire you want to run equipment on? Probably old wiring may not be up to the task. To test it, use a megger and see what you get.

In general wire made for AC is made to tolerate 20 amps or so - TC wire will not do this

Well thanks for the prompt reply...

I have meggered the cable @ 500V and found it ok.

The said cable has a run length of 25 meters and is in the control room.

The voltage of the load is 230VAC.

CAn i do it nonow

Not yet. You still haven't addressed the questions about amps versus wire size, nor voltage drop.

The maximum ampere drawn would be 2A and wire size is 16AWG.

What location in the world is this installation? It's just that CR4 readers need to stay well away from it for their own safety....

No you cannot. Just run another cable.

16 gauge wire, lets say 100 foot, .15 ohms per foot = 15 ohms.

this will have thicker insulation, so it will take the voltage. It will not pass any insurance or code rules, so in case of fire or other damage, you will be dismissed without notice on the spot. This can be called laziness or expediency?

I assume you want to do this because the wire is there, so no need to run new wire.

Well, now you know the risks.

I*I*R = 2*2*15 = 60 watts.

230 volts *2A = 460 watts, or 13% of energy wasted.

No not ever.

Finally got the right answer - the simple one.

NO

Do not use this type of cable with 230V

No you shouldn't ever do that, and why on earth would you want to ?

These cable cores are made from different and very specific alloys (Ni-Cr and Cu-Ni) and are mighty expensive compared to copper cable.

If you have surplus, I'm sure some industry close to you will gladly exchange for an equal length (or even double the length) of standard copper wire.

Well, there's no way that such an installation would pass periodic inspection under British Standard 7671. Do it that way, and one risks being very unpopular with the facility's fire insurance company.

The conductors are of dissimilar metals. As will be the connection points. This will cause a voltage drop across the connection. With the higher voltage the drop maybe enough to burn the wire off.

Robot2012, The cable may take any volatge level, but depending on the amperage the insulation may not be enough and the cable will burn it.

Also before asking things like this be sure that you are already versed in the matter, else a lot of people who could help you will assume you are not smart and will direct their efforts elsewhere.

It just a big mistake to use the thermocouple in a line with 230vac as electromotive force.it just an overheated in your wall or any of your house.We have standards for that provided by the industries.Here in the philippines we use lumix wire as our standard for 230vac.

Standards exist to help the reader to follow established best practice in the area covered by the standard. To deviate from the standard is at best abstruse and at worst criminal, depending upon outcome.

Evidence that an installation is compliant with a published standard is a substantial defence of the installer's actions in most jurisdictions.

This thread really needs to be put to bed.

Cable used with a thermocouple is specifically designed to be used with a specific series of thermocouples - each with slightly diffeent requirements. It is expensive stuff.

The cable is not rated, designed for, nor intended to be used with a voltage and more so 230VAC. It is not intended to carry more than the few mA from a thermcouple circuit.

Any cable must be protected by a fuse or MCB so the obvious stumbling block would be the protection of a suitable device.

An electrical engineer would not do something as daft as is being suggested. Using an incorrect cable like this is totally against the IEE wiring regulations and although these are not regulatory you find that by non compliance you are prosecuted under the Electricity at Work / HSE.

Have you considered brick laying rather than electrical engineering???

Have you considered brick laying rather than electrical engineering???

Not a good idea! Someone may have to live in one of these homes.

In technology, we need to accept other idea not to neglect it.Cause we have different experience in our field.Very important is make your self humble and knowledgeable that can be imparted to other.And may contribute knowledge to other and make their lives.If we are experts, but actually we are not own our lives.We don't know tomorrow will be our travel to internal lives.That we cannot came back anymore where we start.This world not displace you but exactly remember you always.Remember Steve Jobs...

Nope - don't agree.

In technology we need to consider all ideas. Often from a seemingly silly suggestion a good solution can be determined.

We need to realise that the ideas of non skilled persons are oftn not blinkered by what the technical person can see as a contraint.

It is important though to realise that many things have been designed for a specific purpose. They have special properties and are dangerous when used by the uninstructed or skilled.

A person who cannot swim knows not to jump into deep water and yet there are many who consider themselve experts in electrical matters who through there own lack of knowledge would happily endanger those around them.

It takes many years to learn about electrical engineering and the clever experienced engineers are happy to admit there is probably still more they don't know.

I dont agree also, all they need is to educate them also to the technology that they need same to you also before that you have no skilled and acquired by your educator.It will became dangerous if they use it in wrong purpose.