Cutting a Square Out of Porcelain Tile

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TILE CUTTERS

There are also electric tile saws.↓

It's stalled. I've got all the seams sealed, but other, more pressing issues keep cropping up.

I'm dealing with getting quotes on two complete refurbs and a move.

I've got everything I need to complete the job, except time.

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks.

Angus, you're going to be outta luck trying to cut a square in the middle of your tile. It's tough stuff and will require diamond drill bits in a drill press.

Can I offer you a solution?

Instead, layout your tile in such a manner so that 4 individual tile corners intersect at the center of your shower drain. Use a commercial tile cutting saw table that has a diamond encrusted circular saw blade. Make sure it is capable of "wet-cutting" and features a water well in the bottom. Remember, the Law of the 6 P's......Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Projects! So, plan ahead with paper and pencil....or better yet, layout the tile grid on AutoCAD or similar software. I did and eliminated a ton of tile waste, as well as a whole bunch of unnecessary cutting!!!!

You can either buy one or rent one. I bought mine at Lowe's to redo all of our ceramic floor tile in the kitchen and dining room......around 720 S.F. + cutting granite tiles for the kitchen countertops & backsplashes.

I'd get a tile cutter................as mentioned.

Then.....................rather than cutting a square out of the middle of the tile, I'd start at a corner and make two cuts. Why cut a square out of the middle when two sides are already cut?

Exactly! That method is what I was inferring to....

I always thought to start a tile project you star at the middle, in this case the drain and tile outward.

Thanks to all for advice: the reason for my specifying in the middle of the tile my thought was related to the shower valve on the wall. The tiling will sorround the shower valve and I was being forward looking in thinking that one 12 x 12 tile will curcumscribe the valve. The reason for this inclination is that there is no possibility of an access panel in my case so in the event of the shower valve needing to be replaced then that configuration of tile would assist the repair being implemnted.

Any thoughts onb above are welcome,

Angus

Angus

Diamond hole saw.

Or pay some tile guy to do the "one-off" cut.

I agree with Lyn. OP, a round hole is acceptable? You can rent a core drill with a vacuum base and water provision and DIY, but you may have to purchase the bit. In which case you're probably better off getting someone to do it for you. Or you can use some of the other suggestions already presented. I would only add that if you decide to cut it dry, be prepared for lots of dust and take frequent stops to let the tile cool, or you may hear an ominous pop .

For the valve, you can make a series of eight cuts with the diamond blade (grinder or tile saw) to cut an octagonal hole for a little tighter fit. It doesn't have to look pretty since it all gets covered up. Clamp the tile firmly and cut slowly, since any plow cut can kick if you're not careful. You will get some practice cutting the hole in the backer board.

Fortunately, you should be able to change the guts of the valve when it wears out without going into the wall. On most newer valves, everything pulls out the front.

Check this link for a tool that uses a diamond blade to cut tile and other hard materials. http://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/oscillating-tools.html

Thank you for suggestion,

Bujt I have that tool, but unfortunately none of the cutting wheels will work .

angus

Ohhh now I see. I had incorrectly assumed that this was for the floor drain, not the shower valve.

But I ask, why a square hole and why so big? Also, to change out a shower valve cartridge you normally don't have to remove the wall tile to do so...

Or am I all wet here, and missing something big and relevant? LOL

I say if the man wants a round hole in the middle of one tile, he should have it.

yes; usually you can repair this Delta valve from the front. But if you cannot then you can have a disaster on your hands. So why not install tiles in such a way that you should be able to access the valve and replace.

Angus

Capt: I am using Durock 1/2" backerboard on the walls: it will be coated with Redguard prior to tiling. the question reduces down to the best way of configuring the tiles to accomodate the shower valve from the point of view replacing the shower valve shower (if needed). The most obvious way of doing this job is what you suggest (cutting 4 tiles), but from the bpoint of view accomodating the possibility of replacing the shower valve is it as good an option?

Angus

Angus

Drill holes at corners then use tungsten carbide coated blade on hacksaw or coping saw to connect the holes..

http://www.5min.com/Video/How-to-Cut-a-Hole-in-Ceramic-Tile-65964867

http://www.tungstencarbidegritedge.com/products/carbide-rod-saw-blades.php

http://www.tungstencarbidegritedge.com/categories.php

Saw with blade $7

http://www.amazon.com/Mapei-152mm-Carbide-Coping-Blade/dp/B004YFALVA/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_7

Dremel 545 diamond wheel $13

http://www.amazon.com/Dremel-545D-545-Diamond-Wheel/dp/B00004UDI9/ref=sr_1_6?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1335665524&sr=1-6

Century Drill and Tool 80412 Tapcon Masonry Drill Bit, 3/16-Inch $7.50

http://www.amazon.com/Century-80412-Tapcon-Masonry-16-Inch/dp/B004UUAIT4/ref=sr_1_6?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1335665799&sr=1-6

I bought the Dremel diamond blade and i tried it on a ceramic tile I have. I think this will work on ceramic tile but it is difficult. So I do not think it will work on 3/8" porcelain. The diameter of the blade is only 1 1/2" and one could do much better with a bigger blade (like the 3 " blade used with the Dremel Sawmax product). I am trying to get by with the Dremel I have. I think on ceramic tile to drill a hold at the corners of the square and then use the Dremel with the Diamond blade would work. The coping saw is of interest provided it is is for tile, not wood. I will study the link you provide.

I looked for a diamond cutting disc for my 4 1/2' grinder, but I did not see one in Home Depot here. So far for sure it seems that the Rotozip with a cutting bit would do the job on ceramic and porcelain.

Angus.

Surprised you can't find a diamond disc, they are very common and cheap round here, can you look on Ebay?

fretsaw will work but v slow and hard to control, being thin and round the line won't be straight,

cnc

Don't just use a tile cutter. You need to use a drill bit suitable for tiles or glass (I have also successfully used masonry drill bits), then feed a tile saw blade (round section) through this hole, and saw out the square hole.

It is very likely your tile saw handle/holder will not have the reach to cut from the middle of the tile. If this is the case then cut the tile in half with a good tile cutter, and use a tile saw to cut the 2 1/4" notch in each half.

A 6 1/2" coping saw will reach easily...

http://www.amazon.com/Irwin-2014400-ProTouch-2-Inch-Coping/dp/B000B3AR04

SolarEagle might be implying that you could fit a tile-saw blade into the coping saw handle. I believe dimensions and fixings are the same, so this could well be possible. Either way, suitable tile saws like this are available anyway.

<sigh>

Well, it was fun while it lasted.

Ya know, it seems to be simple discussions where these "other than kind and gentle" comments manifest themselves.

As SavvyExacta recently reminded us, "It's just water in a microwave - OK."

I cut a 550mm dia hole in ceramic tile. In the end I drilled round the perimeter with a 6mm diamond and finished off with a diamond grinder. Major dust and NOISE.

What a pain when the concealed shower valve needs replacing and you didn't plan doing it so soon. Is a mistake I made. The access I left in a similar situationto yours, well at the time Ithought a round hole was going to be ok, but it's not. Maybe at the time Iwas in plumbing mode,and I could see how it would be done. Now I can't be bothered to work it out. I am going to fit a bar-type external valve, but I can recess the whole thing into the wall, so its not sticking out.

Good luck with the project.

cnc jim

I have used a rotozip with the tile cutting bit in the past. The biggest problems I ran into were keeping the tool at the proper angle, and snapping bits (moving too fast or slow). The next time I have to do it; I would buy two or three bits (expecting to break at least one), make sure I kept everything damp to keep the dust down, and not rush.

From Sleepy.

We had a contractor build 3 bathrooms for us.

All used the same tiles but in different configurations and the tiler used a different pattern on each of the 3 floors, all used the same floor tiles with again, identical border tiles placed in the floor tiles for the pattern. It is his trademark.

The first two were relatively straightforward but when he did the third room he used a central small square border tile inside the middle of each large Floor Tile. I can only assume that each Tile was cut using a wet Rod saw with a large Coping Saw - I did not hear a machine going for these cuts. He was also extremely reluctant to give up any of his trade secrets! It is the way that I would have done it if I had been doing it. There was also very little wastage.

Sleepy

If its a wall tile You can use a roto zip with carbide cutter. If its floor tile You will need a diamond blade to cut it. I use a 4 1/2 inch angle grinder with diamond blade to cut.

oilcan13

I have have used an air grinder with a carbide bit and trimmed some ceramic floor tiles. Just let some water run on it. Another thought might be to use a decorative border tile right through the shower valve location. Carry the pattern around the shower, or room. If the border tile is composed of smaller tiles held in place by mesh, the cutout becomes easy. And, if you buy a spare decorative tile, if replacing the valve becomes necessary, the job will again become easier.

Now this is a good idea! There are mesh border tiles that are 12". So one decorative tile would be placed with center of this tile conciding with the the center of the valve. I would like to use 12" to give plently of room if a repair did become necesary.

Right now I am wondering how that would look if use all the way arounnd. Usually decorative border tiles are used ~3-4" in height not 12"

Angus

http://www.homedepot.com/Flooring-Floor-Tile-Wall-Tile-Tile-Ceramic-Tile-Accents-Borders-Trims/h_d1/N-5yc1vZargcZ1z11cvk/R-100678974/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051

This is a decorative strip of smaller tiles that I was thinking of. The sizes and designs are almost limitless.

thanks Bob! I understand your point, but to do a repair surely needs more space than 4" high. You need room to work to access the valve ares and replace if necessary

Angus

I just stuck that size in there because you said 4.5x4.5. There are many sizes available.

thanks Bo: in the event of a repiar being necessary at a later date then I do think that more space space would be necessary to gain access to the valve.

I would want to have a 12" by 12" available so that I could have good acccess. I am not sure how that would look. Also I am not sure that smaller tiles would be easier to remove. I will be using 2 coats of Redguard on the Durock backerboard pior to tiling. I would approach removeal of an installed tile by aligning a chisel with the cement line attaching the tile to the Redguard surface and hitting the chisel with a hammer sideways to prise the tile off.

Angus

Just hang a picture over the hole on the other side of the wall.

There is no access possible on theb other side of the wall: there is another bathroom there.

Angus

Sir,

Use a wet tile saw and place the tile upside down on its table. Cut the square from the back side, by raising the tile up to the spinning blade. Each cut will be oversize on the back side, where it will not matter. On the front side, the four cuts will form a near-perfect square. If you make a practice cut on a scrap piece, you can find out how deep and how far to overcut so the front side is cut to the spot you desire. If the cut is a little short, it will not matter because the small amount left over at the corners can easily be chipped off since their thickness is so small.

Porcelain tile is very hard, so many of the posts regarding rod saws, etc. are worthless. The method I have described is the one I have used for this type of work, and it worked for me (60x60cm square tiles, 1cm thick). Standard carbide drills are usually not hard enough to drill through porcelain tiles (I destroyed two bits on a single hole, then went to my vendor and discussed the problem with them--came home with a more expensive bit that did 14 holes before wearing out).

Thanks GURU: This is a good idea . I have small wet saw with a new blade. I will have to remove the guide that sits over the blade. Unfortunately the retaining screw is rusted in place so I have applied some WD 40 to see if I can liberate the guide. If I can then I will certainly try this. Wish I had used grease on the screw at an earlier date.

Angus

A carbide rod blade will cut porcelain tile...The key to making drill bits last is to keep them wet...I keep a small container of water nearby and stop frequently and wet the bit, cooling it down...

Dear Solar Eagle: Are you saying that carbide rods will cut 3/8" porcelain but you have to keep the rods wet like you do with bits?

Angus

It looks like he's saying keep the drill bit cool, not the rod. I have put those rods in a scrollsaw, using plug parts as grips on the rods, you could use pieces of the electrical connectors - chocolate box type i think they are called, BUT I am not sure I cut porcelain tiles with it. Tiles, yes, porcelain, i would have to check.. but the rods really wave about. I had to put lots of pressure on, and it seemed to want to find it's own way most of the time.

Cnc jim

It's all been said, but there are some neat pics here. Masking tape to stop 'skittering', and stop any glaze from fracturing to hell, will help.

Having wasted umpteen tiles myself (and that's with just a clean cut across), I'd be very interested if you could post a result as to how you get on. Patience seems to win the day for me - forget power tools and resign yourself to some very laborious 'scratching' thru it. Layout to avoid the problem would be best, but that's probably the last thing you want to hear right now.

Following digestion of above comments I may consider my tile selction. The 3/8" porcelain tile may be too difficult to work with. It is an outstanding tile though. I am looking for 12 x 12" tiles (1/4" thick) options that will be easy to work with. So far I have tried HD and Lowes but have not seen anything.

Angus

The big box stores carry the most popular products in tile only. Do a search for tile wholesalers in your area. In Miami, there are too many tile distributors between two exits on the 826, or 836 expressway to visit them all in a single day. I don't think I could cover them all in two days.

Just get looking. Good luck.

May I ask why you need to cut a square for a shower drain? If the drain is in fact circular, all manner of problems arise filling in the corners. I'd suggest a diamond spin saw, cut the circle, caulking for a waterproof seal, leaving enough room to pull the drain if needed, until that need arises, if ever. I speak from long experience! Water leaks are not our friend! The worst was a poorly done plumbing job, some years later I had to completely reconstruct the whole end of my house...many more examples...Easy to fix, but if we let it go... here comes the vermin, mold, insurance rates up, property value down, worst, our homes not safe!...There are some wonderful products available now! Good luck!

hello and welcome to the forum ohyppest1, and thanks for the insight into the perils of a leak.

If you have a peep at the foregoing posts, you will see it is an access panel for a shower mixer we are trying to sort out. You would think there would be a commercial product wouldn't you, like the turf or pave manholes?

cnc jim

Water jets and diamond drill are good for porcelain tile. I'm sure both will work.