Micro or Mini by Definition

Don't understand where "PV" comes into this discussion :-S Are you just asking about hydro?

Sorry forgot the original discussion began when someone asked about possible power from a PV installation and it was suggested a micro hydro install would make more sense. However with possibly 50 kW of power being called for that changes the picture and existing micro hydro equipment tend to be rated at 2 - 5 kW. That brings up the question of where to find suitable equipment. Now you need to know how to describe it when looking for suppliers.

Yes. It will be a system consisting of Solar PV power production to pump water (Hydropower) to a height, and use the static head created to draw power at will. This could be a stand alone system or connected to grid, as per requirement.

How economical it would be compared to a battery storage of power is, what I am not able to come to a conclusion. For example, the life of a battery is supposed to be 2 or 3 years, whereas a rotary equipment such as motor or pump or turbine would have a much longer life, provided the bearings etc., are attended to on a regular basis. Moreover, the same turbine (As I understand) could be used for generation of power, as well as pumping water to a height, thus economising on the capital equipment.

By using this system near a reservoir, the first part (Of pumping water using solar power) would be easy, and the existing hydro power generating infra structure could be used.

Do we need such definitions at all? (Dividing lines would be arbitrary.) Why not just state the size of the prospective installation?

Some description seems called for when searching for possible vendors. Otherwise I ended up with listings for megawatt sized equipment.

I admit I am not especially good at defining search terms when googling for vendors.

I don't find any distinction between micro and mini, both seem to apply to small off-grid systems...

"One of the many definitions for micro hydropower is: hydro systems up till a rated capacity of approximately 300 kW capacity. The limit is set to 300 kW because this is about the maximum size for most stand alone hydro systems not connected to the grid, and suitable for "run-of-the-river" installations."

http://www.microhydropower.net/

Thank you SolarEagle!

I don't know how you do it but you always seem to find the right website.

Much obliged.

Micro or mini are relative. When we can talk of a 1000 watt or less, it should be called a mini.

Unfortunately, such turbines are not easily locatable. I for one, would like to have a 100 watt solar panel connected to a 100 watt DC motor that could double up as a generator, that would pump water into an overhead tank, from where it could be drawn back into the sump, to attend to needs, when sun is off-line (So to say).

Actually, a totally stand alone system could be developed using a solar powered pump and a turbine, so that the battery could be totally eliminated.

Hello everybody:

In the absence of a consensus, it is widely accepted the following classification of the hydropower plants in the basis of their installed capacity:

Pico hydropower plant (PHP) ----> 100 W to 1 kW

Nano (NHP) --------- > 1kW to 10 kW

Micro (MHP) --------- > 10 kW to 100 kW

Mini (Mini HP) ------ > 100 kW to 1 MW

Small (SHP) --------- > 1 MW to 10 MW

I'm not arguing about your classifications, but it can be dangerous to make statements like "it is widely accepted that ..." without citing sources.

Hello everybody:

JohnDG, here are some of the sources:

1. "Micro-Hydropower Systems: A Buyer's Guide" by Natural Resources Canada.

2. "Guide on How to Develop a Small Hydropower Plant" by ESHA European Small Hydropower Association. 2004.

3. "Micro Hydro Power. Resource Assessment Handbook" by Dilip Singh, 2009. Prepared for the APCTT Asian and Pacific Centre for Transfer of Technology.

Cool.

Hey Nav.......here's a good site for what you're looking for. Canyon Turbines in Washington State might be of some help in steering you in the right direction. Some serious run of river stuff happening out your way.

Thanks! its a bit bigger than what I was looking for but not by much. Good Ideas!

If you're thinking about sinking one in your creek forget it. Provincial and Federal regs are draconian about water usage.

Some years back I actually went to the expense to put a low head turbine into a creek that runs not far from my house. I was unceremoniously reminded that any use of established waterways requires environmental impact studies....and that was the easy part.

Yes. Waterways, creeks, rivers etc., are National Property anywhere and they cannot be interfered with.

But if you have your own stand-alone system where you use water from a sump (Your own) into an overhead tank (Your very own) I do not think any official could take an objection (May be the structural stability and its possible impact in case the overhead tank bursts or something apart).

In any case such systems should be tried, may be in a Government institition, to record the economy versus battery storage.

Pumping to a tank in the roof in unlikely to be practical.

1 tonne of water pumped to 10m represents 98,000 Joules. That'd give you 27.2 Watt-hours, assuming you could recover it with 100% efficiency.

There are power generation facilities in the US that use a similar type of technology BUT they have an energy source strong enough to re-fill the reservoirs ie a small creek with just enough head to drive a pump. These facilities generate power during peak periods of the day and shut down at night to allow the pumps to refill the reservoir.

Unfortunately a stand alone system such as you propose that are without any power source would invariably be working only to re-charge the batteries..........to run the pump....to refill the reservoir........and nothing else.

Thanks for your knowledgeable comments.

These facilities for refilling the reservoirs work with fossil fuel generated power during non-peak periods of utilisation. When such facilities are economical (Otherwise they would not survive), then why not a stand alone application of a few hundred watts - definitely not a megawatt level- should not be economical? Batteries, per se, are good, but their life span is hardly two/three years, and need replacement. Any rotary device, be it a pump, turbine or generator has much longer life and hence this proposal.

It will be very nice of you readers, to let me know suppliers of say 100/200watt turbine/generator, which could be used during evening hours, and keep on pumping water to the overhead tank during day light hours with say a 200 watt PV Panel. I am not thinking of running a refrigerator.Air conditioner etc. I am simply interested in a pedestal; fan of abut 22 watts and a couple of LED lamps each of 5/6 watts only.

You'd still be looking at getting at least^[1] 1 tonne (1,000 litres) of water 10m above the turbine to get the fan and lights running for one hour. I hope you have a tall house with a strong roof.

[1] ... and probably quite a lot more - depending on the turbine & generator efficiency.

Yes this I am aware of. However where use of boats is permitted there is a loophole. My initial interest was on behalf of someone not in Canada so different rules apply. Mind you some places get even sillier. I recall reading about a car lot sales outlet where the state shut them down for collecting rainwater without a permit. The state claimed it had rights even to rain water once it hit the ground.

The story ran in GRIST magazine.

I just got a letter telling me to disconnect my downspout or else. I guess they forgot that rural areas don't have sewer drains like they do in the city.

I'm just waiting for the 'or else' to happen.