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Anonymous Poster #1

Saturated Water Properties

07/31/2012 8:56 AM

Could you tell me, why the properties of saturated water below zero degree C is not given in any properties table?

Why can't that exist?

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#1

Re: Saturated Water Properties

07/31/2012 9:35 AM

Let me see, is there anything that typically happens at or just below zero degree Celsius that just might complicate aqueous concentration levels?

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#2

Re: Saturated Water Properties

07/31/2012 9:37 AM

Hf, the specific enthalpy of water, is defined and referenced by convention to be zero at the triple point of water. At lower temperatures, the saturated water is actually a solid; the information tabulated refers to fluids only.

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#3

Re: Saturated Water Properties

07/31/2012 10:01 AM

The specific heat of ice is close to 0.50.

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#4

Re: Saturated Water Properties

07/31/2012 11:33 AM

Because ice or frozen water does not fit the definition of saturated water.

Saturated water being in steam or liquid state

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#5

Re: Saturated Water Properties

07/31/2012 2:25 PM

What properties do you have in mind? An old copy of Perry gives vapour pressure of liquid water down to -16°C and water ice down to -14°C. It doesn't say how the water is kept liquid at -16°C. Says water at -14°C has VP = 1.436mmHg, and water ice at -14°C = 1.361mmHg.

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Anonymous Poster #1
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Saturated Water Properties

08/01/2012 2:02 AM

Thank you sir, for your reply. I want to calculate the amount of water vapor present in a room of 12kPa total pressure (dry air+water vapor) with a temperature of -40dec C & RH of 100% inside a space of Volume ''V'?

For example at 25deg C with 100% RH and 100kPa Total pressure, i can find the amount of water vapor by finding partial pressure of water vapor(Pv) at 25 deg C by

Pv = RH%*partial pressure of water vapor at saturated condition(Pg) at 25 deg C

So @ 100% RH ----> Pv=Pg where Pg will be taken from Saturated water table.

And then mass of water vapour (mv) = Pv*V/(Rv*T)

Kindly help.... Thank you.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Saturated Water Properties

08/01/2012 3:23 AM

<...calculate the amount of water vapor present in a room of 12kPa total pressure (dry air+water vapor) with a temperature of -40dec C & RH of 100%...>

It's about 2/5f(a)3.

What size is the room?

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Saturated Water Properties

08/01/2012 4:47 AM

Thank you for the reply. The room volume is 10mX15mX15m

Could you explain what you've mentioned sir, "It's about 2/5f(a)3 "

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#9
In reply to #6

Re: Saturated Water Properties

08/01/2012 5:26 AM

For water vapour pressure I use formula Pv = A*exp(B*T/(T + C)) where

A = 6.109, B = 17.288, C = 237.6, T in °C, VP in mbar.

At -14°C it gives 2.07 mbar = 1.57 mmHg. Not quite the tabulated value, formula is optimised for temperature range ~ 0 - 100°C. I have values of A, B and C for other temperature ranges but not to hand. I wouldn't swear it works at very low temperature, but I don't see why it wouldn't give a reasonable figure, and if so at -40°C it gives 0.185 mbar = 0.14 mmHg.

BTW what is Rv in your formula? I make mass of water vapour, kg

Pv(bar)*V*18/22.7*273/(273 + T) = 0.39 kg for your room.

(I imagine PW Slack was having a laugh!)

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Anonymous Poster #1
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Saturated Water Properties

08/01/2012 7:01 AM

Thanks for your reply sir.

The formula i've written is the state equation of Ideal gas. i.e. m=PV/(RT). All values are for vapor and so subscript 'v'.

Rv is the Gas constant for water vapor.

I also have got one graph, which is matching with your values sir.

Thank you sir.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Saturated Water Properties

08/01/2012 1:20 PM

OK, so what do you make the vapour density and hence the mass in the room?

I don't get the units on your graph. If you multiply vertical figures by 10 it's about right (in mbar). At 20°C it's ~ 23 mbar saturated. But it says at top 10 x 103.

I can barely read the equation, but it looks like e (or it might be ρ - density?) = 461.50*Pv*(T + 273.15). Rv is about 461.5.

Density = m/V = Pv/(Rv*T) in right units of course, and using T in K or °C properly.

Incidentally, the air pressure is irrelevant, it contributes to the total pressure but doesn't affect the mass of water vapour.

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