Repair Wood Chair and Table

A1:

A2:

That style makes both my knees and back hurt. Sorry, no GA.

Looks like Oak to me.
I'd say Titebond should be fine, but the best is good old fashioned hide glue available online under various names (Liberon pearl glue is one I've used)
The big advantages of hide glue are.
It can be undone with heat/humidity.
Easy to clean off any excess with hot damp cloth.
Disadvantage is it needs a heated glue pot and it stinks. A cheapo 1L deep fat fryer can be used as a heater if you put the glue in a glass jar and stand it in water which replaces the fat in the fryer (you need one which is temperature adustable, and you want to spot calibrate it at about 70 degrees C)
Here's a link to a blog entry in my Bowyers Diary where I use the stuff.
Set time is fairly short, an hour or two if the part isn't under load. Overnight will do before loading.
Del

I'll take a look at your link after I get home tonight. I guess I've never used or seen used hide glue.

Thanks,

Bruce

The wood looks like oak...I would sand the joints before glue application, as the buildup will create a gap....I like the titebond 2....Your pieces should be clamped from above and below...You don't need any dowels or biscuits, the glue is stronger than the wood nowadays...If the shape is difficult to clamp you can trace the contour on a scrap piece of wood to make a straight surface...The table or whatever surface will have to be refinished as the re-glued pieces will probably not be in perfect alignment...I like spar urethane as a topcoat finish...

Thank you for the reply.

I have joint comments in #11. The joint clean up is a little bit of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

Bruce

I'd de-bond the bad joints and use biscuit jointer to put them back together.

My concern is the amount of warpage in the wood after all these years.

I'll defer to the others as to the best glue and proceedure.

There is good news and bad news on the biscuit idea. I like the idea from a strength point of view but I don't currently have a biscuit jointer and I suspect that if I tried to use it on wood that already has curved surfaces cut on it I will probably have a big problem keeping things lined up properly.

I am lucky that there does not seem to be enough warp on any of the wood to be detected by the human eye. The distance between parts in the picture is simply a 100% joint failure with the center part of the seat falling due to gravity. As near as I can tell I have parts that will mate very well from a mechanical point of view.

Thanks,

Bruce

That's good news.

Now, it becomes a question of how much surface prep you do.

I agree that if you remove enough material to get back to virgin wood, fit might be a problem. The original surfaces were probably planed and flat.

I think that Ron's idea of some alignment "nails" is a good one.

Because I "grew up" in the aerospace industry, I'd probably use some type of epoxy adhesive.

I've got a biscuit joiner attachment that goes onto my router. I think I bought it from Sears, years ago. It's easy to use. You could probably find one somewhere; maybe Sears still sells it.

One good thing about biscuit joints is you don't have to worry much about lining them up left/right. Just mark the matching faces with pencil marks, and keep the distance of the cutter at a constant distance from the router bearing surface, so the cuts line-up up/down. The length of the cut for the biscuit isn't very critical.

ga on de-bond & biscuit cutter jointer. How many more times do you want to repeat this project in this lifetime?

I'd break all the joints down at this age and condition of things & put it back together right. The remaining joints aren't going to be that good either, most likely.

Make a gluing jig by tacking together two strips of heavy plywood scrap long enough to trace an arc of the table on, wide enough to to leave inch or so between the top of the arc & board's edge Even them up with a couple of passes on the table saw

Use the end piece from table top is the template to trace your arc. Cut it out pull the pieces apart.

Use these as jaws to grip the table top when you glue it back together and squeeze it all together with 2 or 3 door clamps while the glue cures. Either glue will hold it together 'til you don't need it anymore. The secret is a clean joint and pressure.

With any glueing job 90% of the work is in the preparation and jigging up of the parts to hold 'em in alignment.
I'm sure we've all been caught out having glued parts together with no way of supporting them while the glue goes off...mad panic looking for rubber straps, clamps passing octopus etc
Del
(make that 98% the other 2 % is mixing the glue correctly)

You might try posting this question over on some woodworking sites such as Lumberjocks or wood-on-line. Personally, I would use a resorcinol glue used in boat building It is a 2-part glue that is waterproof (not just water resistant) and is available at marine supply stores. The other thing I would try is Gorilla glue. The important thing is the joint has to be perfectly clean and have NO gaps. If you can eliminate any gaps, then almost any glue will work. I like to tap a small brad into the edge of the wood at 2 places, cut it off almost flush with the wood before applying glue. When you clamp it, the brads will keep the 2 pieces of wood from sliding apart. Any old glue will prevent the new glue from penetrating the wood fibers, so it is important to get down to clean wood.

A clean joint is my game of chicken. To look at the wood I now have 100% clean wood with a mating joint that is FAR BETTER than anything I could reproduce. If i try to clean it up with a blade then I will probably convert the chair to firewood.

I can not seen any glue on the wood. There might be a slim chance that most of the glue dried out and came off as dust. I know that from a microscopic point of view there has to be old glue there. I agree with and have a lot of respect for the "NO GAPS" comment. As long as all joints appear to the eye to be glue free then I will probably be considering all glue suggestions and using whatever glue seems best.

Thanks for the resorcinol glue and and Gorilla glue suggestions. I have not heard of resorcinol but boat glue sounds good.

Thanks,

Bruce

Check to see if this is an oily wood, see if water is absorbed by the bare wood that is showing. If it is oily, a water based glue probably won't work. You could use a two part epoxy or a solvent based glue. I think Gorilla Glue is solvent based.

"Aerolite 306 Wood Glue" is an urea-formaldehyde/acid hardener glue has been used for many years in boat building and light aircraft wood applications for its strength and dependability of bond.

Thank you,

Bruce

Yes, if you don't have large and expensive jigs, you can't hope to dowel these pieces back together, and unless you have a lot of practice and experience with a biscuit jointer, I would not recommend that either.

Step #1 - Put a drop of water on the exposed surface of the wood. While waiting 30 seconds to see if the water soaks in, consider buying a biscuit jointer and practicing. Biscuits are fantastic if you do them right because you can glue into the virgin wood and often ignore the old face glue if the face is true and clean.

If the water drop soaks into the wood, go to step #7.

If the water beads or runs off go to step #2.

If the glue changes from non-visible to soft white milky goo, go to step #7

Step #2 - prepare to be frustrated with your furniture because it was probably glued with a resin-based glue that will not allow the wood fibers to expand into a water-based glue, thus killing any chance of Tite-Bond 1, 2, or 3 forming much more of a bond than arts-and-crafts hot melt.

Step #3 - find a friend with a jointer who can take off the old glue and give you flat and true clean faces to re-glue, and then go to step #7, or resolve to use epoxy because that's your only hope and go to step #4.

Step #4 - buy a simple Kregg pocket-screw jig from any of the online dealers or Lowe's for less than $40. Consider using only pocket screws and no glue if the water drop did not soak in.

Step #5 - lay out your pieces on a FLAT surface, align edges and prove to yourself that the table top is flush, and prepare to glue. If you don't have a FLAT surface, resolve to have bumpy joints, or go to straight to step #6. Drill pocket holes in the unseen-side, apply epoxy to the joint, being very careful to apply only about half what you think you should, then screw together and immediately remove all epoxy squeeze-out with an epoxy reducer like Xylene. Wear gloves and don't spill. If nothing squeezes out, then either your joints were not as perfect as you thought they were, or you did not get enough clamping pressure because you did not, or could not, use enough screws.

Step #6 - Take your re-glued table and chairs to a cabinet refinisher because the xylene you just used to remove the epoxy squeeze-out also removed all the finish along with the glue. See other poster's comments about using hide glue (comes off with hot water) for explanation of why woodworkers hate using epoxy for this very reason.

Step #7 - If the water soaked in, you have a good chance of re-gluing using titebond or other waterbased wood glue. As in step #4, drill your pocket holes, apply glue, and screw. Wipe off squeeze-out, wait 30 seconds, turn all screws 1/4 turn, wipe squeeze-out again. Wait 30 seconds. No squeeze-out? Good. Pause. Wait and Watch 2 minutes. Have hot water and rag handy. Check all around for squeeze-out. Wipe off any with damp hot rag. Don't mop the wood and let water get in the joint which will swell the fibers and push the joint open. Just wipe off the excess glue.

Step #8 - either way, buy your buddy who has the jointer a few cold ones, you most likely will need his help another day when you can't use a pocket screw and still want to have a perfectly clean and straight joint for some glue-up.

How in love with this furniture are you? If the table and chairs hold an important spot in your heart, you might want to consider having a refinisher do this for you if you don't have the tools and experience. If this is, as you describe, just Asian oily cardboard garage project stuff, then you can probably make out alright with just the screws.

Good luck, and send photos of the re-glued results.

Thank you for a great reply.

Bruce

With long strait joints like you have there I would use a biscuit jointer to fit tongues along the length & if its thick enough fit two lines ¼ way down & ¾ way down, use a good PVA adhesive and plenty of clamps, leave for 24hrs, when setting the jointer always set from the top surface, the under side isn't always as flat as the top. when re gluing joints on chairs try to clean off as much old glue as possible without affecting the joints, then use an expanding adhesive with ratchet ties to hold in place, again leave for as long as possible.

Bazzer

Others have mentioned Gorilla Glue and I give it a great thumbs up. I have found it to be better than fantastic in holding power. Follow instructions. Clean up surfaces with sanding, get everything ready, wet one surface and apply glue to opposite, do not betoo generous as Gorilla Glue activates with water and foams a bit. Clamp together and allow to set. I doubt if it will ever part again..

Good suggestions so far.

Have you considered pocket screws? Your repair would be hidden under the table or chair. KREG is a good name but ther are some cheaper ones out there. If you opt for biscuits or dowels then the joint/seam would have to be taken completely a part. Not the case with pocket screws. I would apply glue with a brush and use the pocket screws to close the joint. No other clamps needed while waiting on the glue to dry. I have been told glue would even be optional for this repair. I would still use it though.

I didn't think of pocket screws. Thanks for the suggestion.

Bruce

Another thing you might consider is: after the joint is glued up, screw on (or glue on) some metal mending plates across the joint from the bottom side. A mending plate the full length of the joint might be overkill, but I'm sure it would work.

The joint has failed because the original joinery was inadequate. You need a connector. Nowadays this is accomplished with a "bisquit joiner." However, dowels are just as good and easy to install. Your biggest problem is how to clamp. The obvious answer is pipe clamps. These will cost a few bucks - depending on how large the table is and how many you need.

To install the dowels you need a 1/2" Forstner bit and an adequate length of 1/2" dowel. You also need a set of dowel markers (pictured below.)

Drill 1/2" holes with the Forstner bit on one side, insert the dowel markers into the holes, align the joint and tap with a hammer so the points mark the other half of the joint. Then drill the other side.

I like the use of dowels, but not a biscuit joiner. I have neve been able to get a biscuit joint to line up perfectly. I gave you a GA.

The art of getting a flat joint with a biscuit jointer is to do them from the same side,ie the flattest side, & good clamps, when using sash clamps put them, one up one down,one up one down so you're pulling the wood evenly, if you clamp from one side you will find the surface will hollow out.

Bazzer

I would have used duct tape, and paint, but that is just me.

How about using a portable drill with an old fashioned wire brush. A flat brush that spins in line with the grain should help to remove some of the old glue, while not removing any significant amount of wood. Hope this helps. Send photos.