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Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/20/2012 8:20 AM

I want to use acrylic sheet for daylighting instead of glass.

Is the transparency easy to be deteriorated Vs time?

Any other substitutes is better than acrylic sheet?

Thanks

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#1

Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/20/2012 8:52 AM
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#2
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Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/20/2012 9:28 AM

Beat me to it!
Polycarbonate is more scratch resistant than acrylic. I've used some as an extra layer of glazing on the fixed panes of my big double patio doors. There are double glazed anyway, but I'm hoping the extra panel and small air gap on the fixed panes will keep the house cosier in Winter.
Del

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#3

Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/20/2012 10:25 AM

Sorry boys, acrylic is the winner, hands down, for light transmittance at around 95%. (Note the title of the thread)

PC comes in at somewhere in the 80% range.

Non scratch coatings are available for acrylics.

So acrylic is better and they all degrade over time.

Use acrylic!

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#5
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Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/20/2012 10:54 AM

No shalln't.
You should see the acrylic once I've sharpened my claws on it
Del

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/20/2012 12:15 PM

Just have to have you de-clawed.

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#7
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Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/20/2012 12:20 PM

Yes, but, PC's claim to fame is not scratch resistance as much as hammer resistance.

I used to work in a lab and we played with all the transparent sheet material.

PC was tough as nails, as long as it wasn't stressed. Bend it, squirt it with MEK and it breaks. Polysulfone explodes if you do this.

They all scratch.

Still, for price, ease of use (you can scribe acrylic and break it, you don't have to saw it) and availability I'd go with acrylic.

But, I'm not a cat.

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#8
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Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/20/2012 12:53 PM

I'd say it's a toss up, depending on application. I was a little biased toward PC, because I used it to replace the side rear truck window that I busted out, while throwing firewood in my truck.

http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/203584/home_lighting/replacement_residential_skylights.html

There's some pretty tough PC out there:

http://cyrilhuzeblog.com/2010/03/26/motorcycle-windshields-material-shapes-and-sizes/

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#9
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Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/20/2012 12:59 PM

Yep, PC holds up to firewood better than acrylic, every time.

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#10
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Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/20/2012 1:06 PM

I'm sure acrylic was the best back when you were in the business...................of course, black and white television was state of the art too.

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#11
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Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/20/2012 1:21 PM

A question, wise one..............

If PC is less scratch resistant than acrylic, why not acrylic for eyeglass lenses?

Modern glasses are typically supported by pads on the bridge of the nose and by temple arms (sides) placed over the ears. CR-39 lenses are the most common plastic lenses due to their low weight, high scratch resistance, low dispersion, and low transparency to ultraviolet and infrared radiation.[citation needed] Polycarbonate and Trivex lenses are the lightest and most shatter-resistant, making them the best for impact protection.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasses

The best of both worlds:

http://www.dow.com/additives/news/2012/20120308a.htm

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#12
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Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/20/2012 1:48 PM

Well sonny,

First "CR-39 should not be confused with polycarbonate". From your citation.

I never said, "PC is less scratch resistant than acrylic,". You put words in my mouth there.

PC is used in glasses because it is tougher, as you suggest.

It IS NOT a better transmitter of light, which was the question, If I remember correctly.

CR-39 was developed for B-17 bomber fuel tank reinforcement. I was not around for that. Even I am not that old.

Just admit that you are wrong, and the old man is RIGHT, again!

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#15
In reply to #12

Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/20/2012 2:38 PM

Why does being right all the time make you so grumpy?

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#16
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Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/20/2012 2:44 PM

It's in my genes.

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#13
In reply to #3

Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/20/2012 2:09 PM

Compared with the following price:

1. Acrylics with Non scratch coatings.

2. Polycarbonate

Which one is cheaper?

Also, if for cutting, which one is easier?

Thanks

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#14
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Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/20/2012 2:36 PM

Acrylic is cheaper and easier to cut.

Not sure you even need non scratch coating, if you aren't going to wipe it to clean it.

In my town, we have 8 information kiosks with 3x4 foot acrylic windows on two sides.

Some of those sheets are 10 years old and they are still in very good shape. This is Arizona.

Use acrylic. It can be scribed and broken, you don't have to saw it. You have to cut PC with a saw.

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#19
In reply to #14

Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/21/2012 3:31 AM

My design window size will be similar as 3x4 foot and the location will not be very prone to wind.

May I use the information kiosks as a guideline? Could you help me to check the thickness of acrylic sheet?

Thanks

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#26
In reply to #19

Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/21/2012 10:10 AM

My kiosks windows are all vertical, so there's no bowing. I use 1/8 inch thick Uv stabilized acrylic.

For horizontal mounting I'd go with 1/4 inch or thicker. Or, Domed Skylights, but they are expensive.

In any case, you do not want water to pool on the skylight. so don't mount it on the horizontal without some pitch.

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#25
In reply to #14

Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/21/2012 9:59 AM

Anyone has design data for an acrylic pane or PC pane:

Pane size vs thickness vs wind load.

One more thing, is acrylic pane easier to creep for long term load than that of PC?

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#27
In reply to #25

Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/21/2012 12:25 PM

OK, acrylic ie Perspex, score and crack with the right Stanley blade and a rabbits foot, but a fine finish saw at a low angle and go steady, or order at the right size, polycarb, there is not score and crack option, same saw technique. I have heard that both pc and acrylic yellow and don't yellow. Look at pet, as mentioned, harder to break than both, non yellowing, and at 3mm, can be bent cold, and doesn't form a white line.

But fixing. Don't go round with a drill and screw it down every 100mm, unless your temperature never fluctuates. It will crack when things warm up or cool down. Best way is allow some expansion room, and hang it from the top, so it stays vertical. the bus shelters may be done like this, with a gasket around. Glue a strip say 15mm deep on the top, hook it over a similar strip on your window, trap it with a frame. Thickness, 3 or 5mm are the standard, 5mm would kill it 3mm would do it.

cnc jim

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#32
In reply to #3

Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/23/2012 4:36 AM

Agreed, GA.

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#4

Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/20/2012 10:42 AM

You may want to look UV PETG. It clarity is close to acrylic and is more durable.

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#17

Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/20/2012 4:27 PM

Polycarbonate yellows as it ages, esp. due to the UV in sunlight. Acrylic does not.

The initial clarity is about the same. Polycarbonate is tougher, and less likely to chip, but it is also softer and more prone to scratching - though you can get both coated with a thin anti-scratch layer.

Here's a more thorough comparison:

http://www.hydrosight.com/technology/polycarbonate_vs_acrylic.php

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#18
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Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/20/2012 10:35 PM

Polycarbonate yellows as it ages, esp. due to the UV in sunlight. Acrylic does not.I will accept that you have experience in this and are correctly remembering it as so. In my experience the opposite is true. UNLESS you had the uv protected Acrylic and i didn't. And i had uv protected PC where you didn't. I don't know which part of the world the OP is in but here in OZ the UV is extreme and unprotected sheeting lasts no more than a couple of years.

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#20

Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/21/2012 6:24 AM

I find it interesting that there are 2 materials presently under consideration as alternatives to glass and each material has at least one "good answer" vote. I vote for polycarbonate because of its superior impact resistance and resistance to stress cracking.

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#21
In reply to #20

Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/21/2012 8:24 AM

The piece of PC I bought to replace my truck window, is guaranteed against yellowing or cracking, for 10 years. Throwing big chunks of wood at it though, would probably void the warranty.

When I found that motorcycle windshields were made from PC, I was convinced. Those see a lot of sunlight.

Don't tell Lyn he's wrong.

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#22
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Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/21/2012 9:08 AM

And motorcycle helmets (the cheaper kind) are made from Polycarbonate. Not from acrylic. The visors are all made out of polycarbonate, specifically lexan They scratch, but don't break. Shards from a shattering face shield would be bad.

I don't like acrylic if I have to drill a hole and screw it onto something. It always breaks out. Otherwise, as a window pane drop in replacement, I have used both, and they both seem to work.

They all scratch.

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#24
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Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/21/2012 9:34 AM

It'll be interesting to see how the Dow anti-scratch additive works out.

You're right. They all scratch.

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#30
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Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/22/2012 5:03 AM

To drill holes in acrylic 'sharpen' your drill bit to have 0 deg. clearance at the cutting edge.

Jim

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#34
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Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/25/2012 2:35 PM

And melt your way through? Last time I made holes in acrylic, thats what I did...only I used a hot nail. The melt formed a re-enforce ridge around the hole which seemed to help. Perspex cracks theoretically can be stopped with "stop drill holes", but in practice, I have seen perspex windscreens with dozens of stop drill holes following the cracks...which means that the stop drill holes didn't really work.

Lexan works better....and is mil spec for replacing aircraft windows. On unpressurized aircraft. In non-critical applications.

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#35
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Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/26/2012 7:59 AM

It actually doesn't melt its way through. I guess the plastic deforms/compresses enough to allow the edge to cut. To drill brass we sharpen the edge to a 0 deg rake as i am sure you know but i am talking about the clearance. By having no clearance angle the drill can't bite and 'screw' itself in giving greater control. I used the same drill to drill through thin sheet metal without it grabbing. I say the same drill because it is quite hard to sharpen just right, so i only have two, 5mm and 1/4". While i am on the subject i found also that putting countersunk screws into acrylic causes stress cracks around the holes. I tried counterbored holes for cap screws but found the same result after some time had passed. Now put acrylic into a frame of some kind. This structure has aluminium glazing bars to hold the Acrylic.

Jim

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#36
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Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/26/2012 10:04 AM

You know...I never thought about it. As important as my drill bits are to my job, I just grab them as I need them. Never thought about a zero rake angle for brass on a drill bit, but of course I set it up for that on the lathe. Five minutes on google shows me that the habits of 35 years are defective. Who knew! I mean...how many people would think to change the rake angle of a two dollar drill bit? Or would even be prepared to do such an odd thing. Maybe I can just clean up some masonry bits and have them in the shop for the odd time I do brass.

I never thought about the zero clearance angle either. Or near zero for sheet metal. But that might be because the metal I drill is considered pretty heavy for sheet metal.

So you CAN show an old dog new tricks. Now I know HOW to do it right, and there will be no excuse to settle for second best. Thanks.

(Now to set up a jig....)

Oh, and I totally agree with you about the "don't countersink the holes in acrylic". The countersink acts as a wedge which will simply split the plastic.

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#23

Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/21/2012 9:28 AM

Still growing weed?

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#28

Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/21/2012 3:19 PM

Get some of this. I believe the coating is considered to be an acrylic. Everyone gets to be right, and you get the best product available.

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23753&catid=704

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#29

Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/22/2012 3:09 AM

One important point that needs to be considered:

  • If one throws something hard and heavy at glass it will break. This feature may be beneficial in order to form an easy escape route in the unlikely event of a fire developing within the building.

...which is why glass forms part of the Building Regulations for domestic premises in the UK.

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#31
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Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/22/2012 7:12 AM

Good point PW! I'd hate to see the guy fit his house with indestructible windows, and not be able to get out in a fire.

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#33
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Re: Transparency of Acrylic Sheet

10/23/2012 9:39 PM

I find it hard to imagine somebody trying to escape from a house fire through a skylight...

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