Previous in Forum: Rooftop Air Conditioner   Next in Forum: Slotted Holes - Max Length
Close
Close
Close
13 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Commentator

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Central New York
Posts: 84
Good Answers: 4

Windmill Failure

11/24/2012 8:30 PM

About two years ago one of the wind farm towers, I think in the Fenner area, failed in the concrete base and fell over. From the few pictures available to the public it looked a lot like a cold joint. Does anyone know any details on this? A failure of this magnitude should have been written up in at least one journal. Thanks for any information.

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#1

Re: windmill failure

11/24/2012 8:44 PM

No information given, as usual.

Never mind.

Fenner Wind Farm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Commentator

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Central New York
Posts: 84
Good Answers: 4
#2
In reply to #1

Re: windmill failure

11/24/2012 9:23 PM

I saw the article in the dispatch about coming attractions. Thanks for the other source. I wanted more than the press release.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Earth - I think.
Posts: 2143
Good Answers: 165
#3
In reply to #2

Re: windmill failure

11/24/2012 10:40 PM

This is an international forum. Stating your country is a good beginning, then state...

__________________
TANSTAAFL (If you don't know what that means, Google it - yourself)
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Central New York
Posts: 84
Good Answers: 4
#4
In reply to #3

Re: windmill failure

11/25/2012 8:22 PM

Sorry about not being location specific. I personally am located in central New York State, USA. The windmills in question are located also in NYS south of me in an area known as Fenner. One of the units actually fell over. Available news pictures showed the tower base intact with bolts apparently attached to a layer of concrete. It looked like a rough surface still in the ground, hence my impression of a cold joint.

Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 47
Good Answers: 5
#5

Re: Windmill Failure

11/25/2012 10:57 PM

The answer appears to be "unknown" and "all of the above."

According to the article below, in Dec 2009 the wind farm operator shut down all 20 turbines while they inspected #18. By Aug 2010, neither they nor contracted inspectors had found the smoking gun.

So they poured some more concrete (always a good idea; the moment arm on a GE 1.5 MW of that vintage is 80 meters) and re-started the turbines one by one.

It wasn't written up in one of the trade rags that I read, North American Windpower, but then again, it was not likely to have been.

http://www.wind-watch.org/news/2010/08/13/fenner-turbines-power-up-while-cause-of-collapse-remains-unknown/

__________________
There's ALWAYS another plan.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1601
Good Answers: 58
#6

Re: Windmill Failure

11/26/2012 8:47 AM

I worked for an aerospace company that erected many antenna poles in Alaska. To make a long story short, these poles kept falling down even though their design strength exceeded all published engineering specifications. It took years of study in top universities to uncover a new failure mechanism. I am not aware of this data being published. Many of the failure mechanisms that have been studied and documented for military programs don't make it into text books and aren't well known. It's unnerving to find that although best practices were employed in the design and manufacture of an item, nature still can find a way to defeat us.

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Windmill Failure

11/26/2012 9:54 AM

So did the "gumbo" melt in Alaska, allowing the tower(s) to fall? I would expect that a large moment (high wind pressure in a prevailing direction) over time could conceivably produce enough pressure in permafrost to pressure melt the soil(mud), and allow miscule shift(s), and in the end weaken the resistance to toppling.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Nuclear Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Louisville, OH
Posts: 1925
Good Answers: 36
#11
In reply to #6

Re: Windmill Failure

01/13/2013 10:46 PM

So, what was that failure mechanism? Years ago I worked for a company that made round tubular poles for street lighting (I actually worked in transmission tower division, not street lighting.) For the smaller poles there was a phenomenon called vortex shedding. Vortices came alternately off opposite sides of the pole; if the frequency happened to match the resonant frequency of the pole, it would vibrate badly, even to destruction. This typically happened at low wind speeds. Could it be happening to the larger towers?

__________________
Lehman57
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1601
Good Answers: 58
#13
In reply to #11

Re: Windmill Failure

01/14/2013 8:31 AM

I don't recall the failure mechanism, and the failures were attributed to vortex shedding, but in this case, the vortex action was assisted by unusual ice build-up on the round poles. I do remember that whole fields of poles would be leveled when these conditions occurred.

Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Central New York
Posts: 84
Good Answers: 4
#8

Re: Windmill Failure

11/28/2012 8:45 PM

According to published reports today, the failed unit is being replaced with a newer, more efficient, bigger,65 feet taller, unit. The blade and hub went on yesterday. Thanks all for your input.

Register to Reply
Power-User
Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 287
Good Answers: 27
#9

Re: Windmill Failure

01/13/2013 10:05 AM

Situations such as this are often due to fatigue failure of the bolts.

Most tower foundation bolts are tensioned rather than torqued. Nevertheless, in either situation, there is rarely, if ever, a bolt preload verification step specified in the erection procedure. As a result, nobody actually knows how "tight" the bolts are. The safety and reliability of the turbine is thus left unknown.

It just baffles the mind when authorities accept "guesses" as to the residual bolt preload in critical fasteners such as these

__________________
Best regards, HeviiGuy
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1601
Good Answers: 58
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Windmill Failure

01/13/2013 10:50 AM

The failures described in #6 were traced to unusual weather conditions. A combination of temperature, precipitation, and wind, turned the supporting structure into an airfoil and resulted in amplified stresses that not even perfectly tensioned bolts could have survived.

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Nuclear Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Louisville, OH
Posts: 1925
Good Answers: 36
#12
In reply to #9

Re: Windmill Failure

01/13/2013 10:52 PM

With the high tension transmission towers I worked with years ago, my impression (I didn't work in the field with installation) was that the nuts were tightened by "turn-of-the-nut" method, perhaps using sledge wrenches. There was a leveling nut under the base plate, which meant that the part of the anchor rod between the nuts was tensioned, but from the leveling nut into the foundation was not. Most of ours were 2.25" high strength (I don't remember the yield for sure, but maybe 104 ksi.)

__________________
Lehman57
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 13 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

BoltIntegrity (1); d_entrepreneur (1); James Stewart (1); Kilowatt0 (1); Lehman57 (2); lyn (1); walt (3); welderman (3)

Previous in Forum: Rooftop Air Conditioner   Next in Forum: Slotted Holes - Max Length

Advertisement