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Basic Electrical Question

12/04/2012 10:04 PM

I'm new to electrical engineering side and please help me to understand following logic.

I noticed in electrical systems(running with generator) if the load is high the withdrawing current(A) from the generator also usually high and the voltage will be lower.

but if i compare with the ohms low(V=IR), Resistance assume as load,

If the load and current high voltage should be higher also. I'm bit confuse in this logic.

Appreciate if anybody can give a proper explanation. Thanks

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#1

Re: Basic electrical question

12/04/2012 10:45 PM

Ohms law is only true with DC circuitry. You must consider the reactance and therefore the phase angle of the current created by the reactive load.

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#2

Re: Basic electrical question

12/05/2012 12:34 AM

Your misunderstanding appears to have to do with the language.

Electrical load is usually measured in amps. So "load" and "current" are often used interchangeably. When you "load" a generator, you are asking it to produce current, measured in amps.

The voltage of a generator should not change appreciably with load, because it should be accurately regulated to maintain a constant voltage.

In a poorly regulated generator, voltage will drop as load is applied.

You wrote: "Resistance assume as load,"

This is not standard wording. When one adds "load" to a generator (such as lighting 10 light bulbs instead of 5, one is reducing resistance. So, assuming 100 watt light bulbs and a generator regulated to 100 volts, then 5 light bulbs (in parallel) will present a 5 amp load to the generator. 5 amps x 100 V = 500 watts. 10 light bulbs in parallel will add load to the generator. 10 amps x 100 V = 1000 watts. The equivalent resistance of the latter would be 10 ohms. (V=IR: 100 = 10 x 10) The equivalent resistance of the former would be 20 ohms (V=IR: 100 = 5 x 20).

If English is your second language, I can see where your confusion might come from. More "resistance" means the generator does less work. Infinite resistance is an open circuit = no work = no "load".

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#3

Re: Basic Electrical Question

12/05/2012 11:05 PM

You are confusing yourself. First of all, u have to understand what is constant and what is variable. Remember the generator V(voltage) is constant and will not change as the load increases or decreases.

The reduced voltage on increasing the load, apart from other reasons can also be due to IR drop on the wires where R is constant.

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#4

Re: Basic Electrical Question

12/06/2012 4:59 AM

Voltage is the difference between two potentials and the resistance restricts the current that is trying to equalise the two.

Therefore if there is more current flowing the voltage is lower. If there is no resistance then the potentials will equalise on contact and there will be no voltage to measure.

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#5

Re: Basic Electrical Question

12/06/2012 5:28 AM

Hasantha, the system is not just a passive resistance, there is also a voltage regulator controlling the voltage out of the generator. As this is dynamic you cannot use Ohm's law.

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#6

Re: Basic Electrical Question

12/06/2012 5:58 AM

Your generator has some internal resistance and the voltage drop across that internal resistance (I X R) subtracts from the voltage the generator supplies, so you measure a lower voltage at the output of the generator when the current is higher.

When you have a higher load, the load resistance is smaller and hence it draws more current with a constant supplied voltage.

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#7

Re: Basic Electrical Question

12/06/2012 9:54 AM

See the basics of the A.C electric circuit for more details .

V=I*R this Ohm's low is used for D.C circuit only for A.C Ohm's low is V=I*impedance. in the generators if a load draws a current the voltage over the load should be stabile that is an A.V.R's working .

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#8

Re: Basic Electrical Question

12/06/2012 2:18 PM

Ohm's law applies, but if AC generator it must be written as follows: V = IZ, where Z is the total impedance (includes resistive load, inductive load, and capacitative load). Also your voltage droop is due to the internal source (Thevinin source) impedance to the load. Generally, all systems will experience droop of voltage output with high loads near the actual machine limits, however most modern machines control the extent of the voltage droop with the use of automatic voltage control circuitry that affects the excitation of the generator. Inductive impedance is related to inductance by the following: ZL = iωL. Capacitative impedance is related to capactiance by the following: ZC = 1/iωC. Resistive impedance is simply the resistance R. The total impedance is simply the sum of the parts.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Basic Electrical Question

12/07/2012 9:31 AM

The total impedance is.

Ztotal=Zc+R. for capacitive load .----> Ζtotal=1/2∏fC +R.

Ztotal=Zl+R . for inductance load.---->Ztotal=2∏fL+R.

because Z is a vector quantum not scaler

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Basic Electrical Question

12/07/2012 9:58 AM

Yes, it is a vector impedance. You do not include anything that states or even implies a vector. You should add the imaginary unit vector of the square root of -1 (i) to these equations. As James Stewart already wrote.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Basic Electrical Question

12/07/2012 12:25 PM

Thanks for the smiley, Fred.

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#13
In reply to #10

Re: Basic Electrical Question

12/08/2012 9:26 AM

please write the complete equation of the impedance for each of the capacitive and inductance load that has the imaginary part and why you didn't .?

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Basic Electrical Question

12/08/2012 10:16 AM

I guess you do not recognize that James Stewart already wrote what you asked for by using the radians per second symbol (ω) for frequency instead of the cycles per second symbol (f). Now you should remember that these equations are only precise for ideal components. In reality the there are parasitic resistors and reactance that effect the impedance depending on the component construction and frequency of interest.

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Basic Electrical Question

12/08/2012 12:51 PM

Oops! I forgot about all the parasites. Are there any Jebusites, too?

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#16
In reply to #14

Re: Basic Electrical Question

12/09/2012 9:42 AM

Yes i do ( ω) is some thing new. on me

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#12

Re: Basic Electrical Question

12/07/2012 3:27 PM
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#17

Re: Basic Electrical Question

12/09/2012 1:13 PM

D.C. Generator also exists and no reactance is involved here[sorry!]. There are also generators without voltage regulation [ may be without rpm regulation, also].The phenomenon is simple :more load=more current that means less voltage at generator terminal due to generator internal voltage drop-as Rixter exposed. If the drive unit could overcome the load the rpm will be constant and if the excitation current will be constant-no voltage regulation-then the generator EMF will be constant so more current will be more voltage drop then less voltage at the terminals.

In order to compensate the drop one has to raise the excitation current [manual or automatic] and so to amplify the EMF.

If the Generator [synchronous a.c. generator- or induction generator] is connected with the Grid then it is provided with all necessary, of course.

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#18

Re: Basic Electrical Question

12/11/2012 12:41 AM

For record only, the impedance [written in complex-real and imaginary] it is not a "vector" but a "phasor" since vector it is a physical notion [force, field and so on] and phasor it is only a symbolic representation. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phasor

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Basic Electrical Question

12/11/2012 10:15 AM

It is strange how the younger generation thinks changing a word can change the mathematics. Technically, it is still a vector. If you don't think reactance is "physical", then attach yourself to a wire and find out!

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: Basic Electrical Question

12/11/2012 10:23 AM

You are correct, James. A phasor is not a spatial vector but a vector none the less.

I find it funny that the cited Wikipedia link says this in the very first sentence:

In physics and engineering, a phase vector, or phasor, is a representation of a sinusoidal function whose amplitude (A), frequency (ω), and phase (θ) are time-invariant.

A phasor is one type of vector.

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#21
In reply to #19

Re: Basic Electrical Question

12/11/2012 11:45 AM

Ok. I have to apologize to my remark. It was not my intention to offend somebody at all. And I am very flattered as I am considered "younger generation". I took my MS 40 years ago and -of course- I am now retired. I was electrical machine designer and manufacturer, cable designer and manufacturer, power station designer and [I don't remember now] some other. But, since I was Electrical Machine Designer I had to separate the "vector" from "phase vector" [or phasor].And that's all. Thank you for your attention!

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