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Power-User

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Mica Band Heaters

01/01/2013 8:48 AM

i have to design a mica band heater for our industrial process involving catalytic reaction at 200 degree centigrade. the catalytic reaction requires Argon gas to be heated to this 200 temperature. the gas flows in a pipe of diameter of 8 inch . i have to design a circular mica band heater of diameter of 9 inch to fit on the pipe and its height will be 4 inch.for this 9"x4" size of my heater , how much will be the resistance of my nichrome wire on a 3 phase 400VAC system to achieve this 200 degree temperature.i will have to connect three nichrome heater elements in star fashion to be supplied by this 400VAC 3 phase system.

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Guru

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#1

Re: mica band heaters

01/01/2013 8:59 AM

I'd buy something off-the-shelf, if I were you. Then you'd know it would work.
The resistance of ni-chrome wire is between 1.0 × 10−6 to 1.5 × 10−6 Ωm.
Send pictures if you can make it work.

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Guru
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#2

Re: mica band heaters

01/01/2013 9:35 AM

You need to know the power requirements of heater to get the desired results,role of resistance will come later.Power requirement will be determine by temp gradiant req,heat losses by system,specific heat of materials used for construction,specific heat of gas,and flow rate of gas.

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Guru

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: mica band heaters

01/01/2013 3:21 PM

I give this a GA. It seems that there are a lot of people out there that don"t understand the difference between heat and temperature. This is basic thermodynamics which everyone with a minimum education in engineering or science should know.

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Guru

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#15
In reply to #4

Re: mica band heaters

01/04/2013 11:02 AM

Thank You! I have to have this discussion too often with people that I feel should fully understand this. The other one that bugs me is the difference between flow and pressure. I have guys tell me they fixed a solenoid valve that can't open against the pressure by partly closing the upstrem manual valve to "reduce the pressure".

Nurse, another round! -- JHF

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Guru
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#3

Re: Mica Band Heaters

01/01/2013 12:13 PM

I think I hear the Voice of Doom.

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#12
In reply to #3

Re: Mica Band Heaters

01/02/2013 6:16 AM

Coolyaar + 400V + homemade = DOOM!

(Was going to say death, but knowing our OP it would be some other poor schmuck).

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Guru

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#5

Re: Mica Band Heaters

01/01/2013 11:05 PM

Coolyaar,

You can heat the gas by conduction, convection, or radiation. Radiation is very ineffective for a gas and argon is a good example of this, so cancel that one out. Convection implies a turbulent flow of gas, which either means a very high rate of flow or the presence of a device in the gas stream commonly called a turbulator (think of the twisted metal plate you find inside the flue pipe inside a gas-fired water heater). Conduction is by direct contact of the gas to the pipe wall and afterwards by direct contact from one gas molecule (atom for argon) to the next. For either conduction or convection to work you need a large enough area of heated pipe for it to effectively transfer the heat to the gas as it flows through the pipe. I strongly doubt that a 9" length of pipe will be sufficient. Argon is very stable, so you can overheat a portion of it and allow mixing afterwards to transfer the extra heat to the cooler portions of the gas stream so that when it gets to where it is needed it has equilibrated at the desired temperature.

Next, you need to know the quantity (mass) of gas you are heating per unit of time (think flow rate) and its initial temperature. These numbers will give you the minimum amount of thermal energy (heat) you need to supply. However, that number will be too low because of losses from the heater and losses after the gas stream leaves the heater before it reaches the reaction location. Finally, you will need some form of control to ensure that the exiting gas stream is at the right temperature.

Simple--in appearance only. Complete information provided by you to us--nowhere near!

In all likelihood, you will end up with a heated section of pipe that is 10x to 20x its diameter, with a turbulator installed inside. This will have to be well insulated and be provided with a temperature measuring device located in the gas stream after the heater. This device would need to display or transmit the actual temperature to the operator and also control the power going to the heater.

All of this will resemble your original concept about as well as a skateboard resembles a racing bicycle.

--JMM

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Guru

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Mica Band Heaters

01/02/2013 12:04 AM

Although the 9" value given was the diameter, not the length, of the proposed heater, the rest of your answer deserves a GA.

Since argon is inert, if this tube contains only argon, it would be much more efficient to have the heater as a spiral coil inside the tube. Again, since the argon is inert, it can't be the catalyst, but only a source of heat to increase a reaction rate without contaminating the reactants. In my very limited experience, an 8" diameter pipe would indicate a huge amount of argon, unless the flow rate is extremely low. In that case, it would make sense to heat the argon in a coil of much smaller diameter tubing and expand the diameter just prior to the reaction vessel.

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Guru
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#6

Re: Mica Band Heaters

01/01/2013 11:36 PM

In in-pipe immersion heater would be a better design, unless something prevents it.

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Guru
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#9
In reply to #6

Re: Mica Band Heaters

01/02/2013 1:49 AM

Yes,and it would be much better if its twisted honeycomb in-pipe heater

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Guru

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#8

Re: Mica Band Heaters

01/02/2013 12:30 AM

The more I think about it, the more questions are coming up.

Is it a quartz tube? Then it can have linear heaters arranged around it, then reflective and glassfibre insulation. I do not believe, the reaction section can also be the heating section. Too many variables.

How precise and even have to be the catalist temperature be, at what flow?

Do you have the money and the years to develop, if it is a precision thing?

Buy the darn thing, if you can specify it at all, and go on producing your thing.

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#10

Re: Mica Band Heaters

01/02/2013 3:56 AM

In order to calculate the approximate heating power required, and from it determine the details of the heating coil, one needs to know, among other things:

  • The inlet temperature of the argon gas
  • The inlet pressure of the argon gas
  • The flowrate of the argon gas
  • The length of the pipe
  • The size of the assembly downstream
  • The level of insulation of the entire assembly, including whatever is downstream
  • The mass and composition of the materials downstream

Also of value to the design would be:

  • The position of the temperature sensor from which the temperature measurement is to be made, relative to the heater coil
  • The mode of operation of the control circuit - is it on/off? PID three-term? Something else?
  • The width of the tolerance band - 200degC +/- what?

Could the argon be raised to the correct temperature somewhere else and stored at that temperature, and then introduced to the catalytic process down this particular pipe, thereby avoiding the need to design such a thing?

Why is the pipe so large? Is the argon coming from cylinders, or somewhere else?

Argon has very little chemistry. Can the argon be introduced just once, and then maintained at 200degC inside the whatever-it-is-downstream while the reaction materials are introduced and the products discharged?

Can whatever-it-is-downstream be converted to some sort of continuous process?

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#11

Re: Mica Band Heaters

01/02/2013 5:26 AM

When you have done all the calculations, multiply your power output by 2 and then control the heater by a temperature controller with a three phase thyristor circuit triggering at zero crossover and a sensor reading the downstream gas temperature. The power feed set-up you describe will not deliver a controlled temperature.

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#13

Re: Mica Band Heaters

01/02/2013 10:08 AM

We purchase our band heaters from www.imscompany.com. They are cost effective and reliable. This method of heating gas however, is not very efficient. I suggest you install gas heaters inside the pipe. That way you will avoid wasting power required to heat the pipe and the gas external to the pipe.

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#14

Re: Mica Band Heaters

01/02/2013 1:29 PM

Lots of good data here, you need to do some calculations on what it is you need.

For what it is worth, this sounds to me like you are going to need two heaters. One to heat and maintain temperature in your reaction vessel and another one to preheat the argon as it flows into the reaction vessel.

The food industry uses such pre-heaters for modified atmosphere packaging systems. I have used these on horizontal flow wrappers in the cheese industry. The gas (a mixture of CO2 and Nitrogen) the gas flow was heated before being injected into the package.

Here is a link to a heater...

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Participant

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#16

Re: Mica Band Heaters

05/29/2019 6:29 AM

Why don't you buy a refurbished system, open it and study what instruments and equipment they are using?

This will make you have complete knowledge of the system. Yagi electricals is one of the websites which you can use to make the purchase of used electrical supplies at cheap rates.

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