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How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/03/2013 1:48 PM

Regards to all. I have a 26ft motorboat that seved me well for over 20 years. I would like to make a replica but extending it by 5 to 6 feet. Any ideas?

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#1

Re: how to make a mold from a boat but longer

01/03/2013 1:50 PM

put a 5 foot swim platform on the transom

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#2

Re: how to make a mold from a boat but longer

01/03/2013 1:53 PM

Any ideas? Yeah, go see a boat guy. Trade old for new, 26' for 32'.

What are you thinking of, building your own boat? And you need help with step #1 of thousands of steps in the process?

What about a trailer? What about power?

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: how to make a mold from a boat but longer

01/03/2013 1:56 PM

we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

My post about the swim platform, we I had a fabricating shop a customer what to put a swim platform on his boat. it was a big boat.

Well I did, and when he stopped in for his next project, I asked him how it works. He said until he slows down the boat drops and the water washes over the platform. Never turns out like the picture in his mind.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: how to make a mold from a boat but longer

01/03/2013 2:11 PM

Well, a five foot swim deck would make "...a Boat but Longer". Our OP didn't spell it correctly, but you and I knew what he meant.

Now there is a mental picture!

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#5

Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/03/2013 2:49 PM

The guys that make West System resins publish a boat building magazine (often covers other things, such as bicycles, too) that always has helpful fiberglassing tips and "how-to" content. The website has sections on boat construction, repair, and restoration.

http://www.epoxyworks.com/

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#6

Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/03/2013 2:52 PM

Is it wood, fiberglass or aluminum. I'm guessing glass, if you need a mold.

Really, if you want help, paint a clear picture of the boat and your intentions.

Is there a cabin? Flotation? What does the motor weigh?

Have you ever built a boat before?

I don't think you're ready for the mold yet.

I can think of a million reasons NOT to do this.

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#7

Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/03/2013 3:04 PM
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#8
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Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/03/2013 3:12 PM

And a mold for the extension?

That's a lot of plaster. You don't need the whole boat mold.

I'd just turn the boat over make a fiberglass mold of the 6-8 feet of transition area.

Getting the angles and fit right may be a challenge.

If you're serious about this send pictures of the boat.

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#9
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Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/03/2013 3:14 PM

Its called a plug.

I worked at the shipyard and we made 12 hulls (Patrol Crafts for South African Navy.)

You first make a plug of the boat, from the plug you make the actually mold, and from the mold you make your hull.

(1) hull was reject by QA, so that made an even bakers dozen with (13), I'll get back to this.

Now, that bakers dozen, you have to realize we were set up for this and we still had over a 8% rejection. This does not include that 6 hulls that just made it, and I even question that. And all the do it yourself sites and plans do not emphasize this enough with maybe a paragraph of warnings.

The things that can happen is wrong mix, environmental, debris. which can cause delaminating, blisters and on the lines of that.

I suggest you do some research. otherwise 2 months from now, there will be a post here that starts out as the likes of this: " Good day, I have a problem......"

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#10

Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/03/2013 4:28 PM

Fun costs money, how hard do you want to laugh? I ask this question because when it comes to boats, expenditure is usually the cube of the actual budget.

As for extending the length of the hull a lot of factors fall into play depending on where the extension is. At 26' I'd suspect it is an inboard boat (I would hope it's an inboard) but if it is an Outboard powered boat then there are additional questions.

Adding a significant length(5-6' is significant) to an existing boat will change its characteristics in ways that may be detrimental to its performance. I'm not just referring to the additional weight the motor(s) have to push, but in handling and seaworthiness in general.

The start of the process would be to engage a nautical designer who will reverse engineer your boat and then do the sums to determin the best place to stretch your boat hull for best perfomace. His cad work will provide the blueprint for the mold to manufacture your new boat.

Alternatively you can strip your current boat, and use it as a plug for the 2 molds you'll need to make the new hull. Why 2 molds?

You will need to make 2 molds so that you can cut and shut sections to give you the extension in length you desire. Depending on how straight or full of compound curves your hull has will have a bearing on how many sections will need to be grafted together. The success of that process will be determined by craftmanship of the tradesmen you employ to do the job.

Cost? Bespoke boats don't come with a budget, more of an economy based on cubic dollars...

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#15
In reply to #10

Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/03/2013 11:56 PM

How true...regarding budget....one needs to be math-enabled for the numerous and necessary calculations pertaining to the design (times 10 for sailboats) and to be incapable of allowing financial math to penetrate the project!! At least from my altogether satisfactory experience.

B.O.A.T. Bring Out Another Thousand!

I am already looking for money for the next one already and the paint is hardly dry on our floating home!

I sure would like to see a naval architecture "section" on CR4. There is a lot of marine engineering that only gets looked at in a "by-the-way" fashion here.

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#18
In reply to #10

Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/04/2013 12:44 AM

"A boat is a hole in the water where you pour your money."

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#25
In reply to #10

Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/04/2013 1:30 AM

Great line! Its kind of like a Jeep, which stands for 'Just Empty Every Pocket'! Now if Jeep just made a boat, then we could sell one, and pay off our national debt!

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#11

Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/03/2013 6:12 PM

There is software programs out there for amateur boat builders, can't say which is best but here's a free one....

http://boatarchitect.com/products.html

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#16
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Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/04/2013 12:29 AM

Hi Solar Eagle:

I had a look at that software (the demo only) up to the point where the demo locked-up. It looks "useable", and it sure beats MS paint! The user would have to be well-versed in marine design to be useful with it. Some knowledge is required going-in with software like that. The common reads to get started are Chapelle, Skeene and Mate(that letter 'e' should have an acute accent).

The student should also have "OPINIONS", because naval architecture is a mix of science and opinion. I suspect that this may be true in some other elements of engineering, given that CR4 sees a lot of 'opinion' from engineers. Unlike some kinds of engineering, one needs an opinion to progresssss in marine design.

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#12

Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/03/2013 10:09 PM

A mould making from something works. But longer is not a mould. You will need to model it to the desired length:

1. Is the hull a water displacement type or a planing one?

2. Who will make stability and flexibility studies?

Start with this. I have built many boats. This was the first one:

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#13
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Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/03/2013 10:21 PM

As phoenix 911 said a swimming platform.(one of the cheapest solutions)

Question is: do you need a longer water line? - only important with displacement hulls for more economy or you want more living space?

The boat on the picture has been designed for a long water line: The platform and also the bulb contribute to that. The inboard engine is a DAF 145 HP - top speed 14 knots, fuel: 7 liter/hour @ 11 knots.

Type Holland Cruiser - Steel Hull.

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#14

Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/03/2013 11:38 PM

When I was younger my dad and I added a 4 foot "tank" to our 24 foot cruiser, while increasing the beam with sponsons and raising the sheerline, thus increasing the bow overhang. the resultant 30 footer was an improvement on the factory boat in every way.Be fearless and do it!

As for the mold question, you should bear in mind that if you are proposing to create a female mold from the existing hull, you are pursuing this the expensive way!

My avatar in this forum is a picture of my sixty footer, at home on the Saint John river in New Brunswick. She started life as a 46 foot Northumberland fishing boat. The increase in waterline length, and the clean exit line at the buttocks allow this boat to max at 12 knots on its Detroit 4-71 diesel with 119 hp.

She was a 10 knot boat before the extension, and ran a 6-71 of 180 horsepower in that iteration. Waterline length is GOOD! Swim platforms are simply for bragging rights.

What is the construction of your boat?

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#17

Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/04/2013 12:34 AM

Cut it in two at a point where the lines are closely parallel to the longitudinal axis, and insert a straight section to match. Adjust the joint location and details as necessary to maintain structural continuity and convenience of internal compartments.

I realize that's abstract, but at least it's a fairly common method with steel or aluminum boats.

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#19
In reply to #17

Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/04/2013 12:52 AM

and with wood construction too!

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#20

Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/04/2013 12:53 AM

Thanks to all for your comments/advice. What i am really after is to find the simplest way to extend any fiberglass boat hull, (applying to both planing and semi-displacement hulls), with the goal of achieving mainly more space, (so a platform at the transom is not an option.) And the reason for that is to be able to make different model sizes for a particular model, say from a 24 footer to a 29 footer to a 33 footer, (width change will not be addressed at this point so as not to complicate issues further),and not having to make plugs or multiple molds, at least not initially, untill these "prototypes" are tested for different criteria. Yes i appreciate all the concerns regarding costing, flexibility and stability studies, charachteristics bieng changed that would affect performance, safety, handling, seaworthiness ..etc. In this initial step, i am trying to keep all parameters constant and only changing one criteria, which is the length, further more, at this point i am trying to find the most cost effective and simplest way to extend a boat, only from a technical point of view. As mentioned above all the other important points will be dealt with later, with hopefully competent naval architects and engineers, and other related proffessionals involved. lyn's post#8 and tornado's post #17, are close to what i had in mind, but trying to find a way to make it all in one piece is the challenge,(rather than multiple sections grafted together), and again, getting the lines and angles and fit right will be also be a challenge.

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#21

Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/04/2013 1:07 AM

Trade it in for a larger one, we have 30ft and 36ft in stock. Safe yourself from making the molding processes and the nasty fiberglass work not to mention the structural issues involved. Rather than have the transom fall off, your missing 6 foot breakage at the connection point and drowning all passengers and yourself.

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#23
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Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/04/2013 1:14 AM

good plan!

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#22

Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/04/2013 1:13 AM

wishing you the best of luck!

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#24

Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/04/2013 1:20 AM

the common weigh of doing what you are suggesting is lofting the station lines of the boat and increasing the distance from station to station. Take for instance your 26 footer, imagine taking slices through the boat every 2 feet and putting that shape down on paper. Now if you use those same shapes or patterns and space them at 2 foot 6 inches, you would end up with a boat 25% longer again. This was common practise back in the old days when wooden boats were built by hand. A boatyard would have a set of patterns for a particular style of boat and depending what length the customer required they spaced these patterns accordingly to achieve the length required. There is of course a limit to how much you can stretch a design but this varies from design to design. Hope that helps you out. i suggest you do some reading in books by authors such as Phillip Bolger, Howard Chappelle and another down to earth for the common man author George Beuller.

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#26

Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/04/2013 1:58 AM

Take a full mould from the original boat, take another mould of the section of the boat to be extended (usually towards the transom where it tends to be uniform, if the section is not uniform e.g. same dimensions at each end it won't work) cut mould and insert extension. Screw plywood blocks to the moulded surface to keep sections exactly flush, glass the rear surface (at least 300mm each side of join) and brace, when cured remove blocks and dribble gelcoat into gap on moulded surface, sand and then polish. I recommend making the largest size mould you require, then you will only need one mould, as all further products can be shortened by simply inserting a false transom in to the mould to the required length.

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#27

Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/04/2013 7:04 AM

First mould the one you've got, then fix a dam over the part that is most straight and parallel, make it 7 or 8 ft to allow you to fine tune the fit, mould this section, then cut the whole one where the new section will fit & fine tune the section to fit in the cut, this beats cutting the boat in half and spreading it.

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#28

Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/04/2013 11:24 AM

In most simplistic terms you make the mold from the hull and if there is a section that is very straight you cut it then extend the mold, ( lots of hand work ) and hand lay up the new extension. This can also be done at the transom. You will need to calculate the forces and add in required reinforcements and engine mounts. I had molds for row boats in one length and all we did was install the transom form at required length for custom boats. Should work on larger units also. We did the same on truck canopies for short bed and long bed units to make the mold. A good fiberglass person should be able to help with some technical tips learned from experience.

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#29

Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/04/2013 2:50 PM

In such projects there is always a no return point one can reach due to many resaons: boat under construction uses our wife´s parking place in the garage. Her car sleeps outside, she get´s angry every day cause the windshields are covered by ice, her car´s battery starts failing... or she get´s sick of having a half disassembled boat in the backyard... or one has spent a lot of money in materials and/or tools that later on proved not to be as adequate as one expected... or ... you name it. My best advise is: go on enjoying your current boat until you forget this idea, 6 more Ft will not make a difference that will pay off for all the problems you certainly will get into! Do not repeat the mistakes I have done many times!

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#30

Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/04/2013 2:54 PM

Hi Zmfmd,

Extending a boat is a tricky process, I would suggest extending it from the stern and bow, and also the beam if you must as you may loose the center of gravity and displacement (May need to up your HP). Is it a vee, flat, or round bottom boat?

Why don't you try a stitch and glue method and build a new one with approved plans? An excellent site for this is http://www.bateau.com/products.php?cat=25#.UOcyBm9OTqU I have used their plans myself and they are very fairly priced. You will also be able to pass all inspections with this if you stick to their plans. I would strongly suggest going this route, it will be cheaper and more efficient in the long run.

Rob.

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#31

Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/04/2013 5:40 PM

There are many issues related to extending a mould and my last post may have been over simplified. Other than changing aspects of the boat that could affect performance and concentrating only on the practical steps of producing a mould the major problem will be keeping the mould of that size rigid until completely braced. This is important as the skin will be flexible and when removed from the boat/plug/pattern will distort. Suggest, pick an area approx 7'-8' back from the transom, dam across the hull, one method is by placing a 6" wide strip of masking tape on the boat, cut a 6" profile to fit exactly across the hull on the edge of the tape and fill behind with automotive filler/bog to hold in place. (Make sure you have plenty in the web). Cast up the front section of the boat, glassing up the dam so you have a 90 deg upright as in making a two piece mould.

Do not remove mould, when cured just remove the dam and masking tape.

Next step is to mould the transom end, mould up to the front mould and also put an upstand on the edge so as to butt up against the upright on the front mould.

When cured break seal of transom mould and slide back on boat/plug/pattern 5-6' and brace in position.

This is where the tricky part comes into play, ensure the edge of the transom is perfectly sitting flat on the plug and screw into place (even if you have to cut and remove the upstand).

You now have a gap between the two moulds, glass this up, glassing at least 300mm overlap if you had to cut the upstand off, when cured do not remove just drill and bolt the flanges/upstands together, do not remove from plug until fully braced and framed up to prevent warping/distortion etc. At this stage the back of the mould is pretty much completed.

Remove mould from plug and dribble gelcoat in to joins, sand and polish.

Before I did anything I would cast a strip where the propose join was (7'-8' from transom) and then place 5'-6' back where the second join is to be and see how close it fits. If too much of a difference abort plan as it is a bitch to fair the inside of a mould, better to cut and extend the boat.

I am assuming you have some fibreglass experience as I have left out many of the basics.

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#32

Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/05/2013 7:46 AM

I did a project like that before, it's not to difficult.

If you have used fiber glass & resin's ! Turn the boat upside down and spray what is called a resin release on the front half of the boat, then take a fiber sheet place over the half and spray resin lite coat. Let stand at least 3 hours until no longer sticky.

Now for the bigger layer for strengthen layers, I used a fiber type tarp.

Spray lite coat of resin and apply the fiber & spray another coat.

Do the same on the back half, and add the length when putting them together going over the whole boat in the center two pieces inside and out at least 3 layers.

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#33

Re: How to Make a Mold from a Boat but Longer

01/05/2013 11:09 AM

Wow - a lot of opinions on this one!

Here's a story/food4thought...

My brother and I used to make 'stretch kayaks'. We made a large profile gauge, traced the profile of the hull every 1.5", cut the profile in 2" thick pieces of that 'pink insulating foam board' and then stacked them up. Whu-la! A hull mold form (in need of only a little inter-section smoothing) 30% longer - but not wider - was born!

I don't see why this could not be scaled up. It would just mean a lot of $ worth of foam board.

I - if it were my job - would make a wood frame that gets close to the final shape - glue in the foam board sections (a little bigger to the inside than they should be) and then build a gantry-style CNC router on rails along the top of the frame - but I'm a programmer/home-made CNC guy so using those hull section profiles to make a route path is not a big deal. AND THEN you'd still have to hand finish those 75,000? sq. in. , lay in the glass/carbon and then hand finish/polish again. :-(.

Oops - I was thinking in 'multiple units' mode. That is what you do to get a nice-looking shiny hull over-n-over.

For a 'one-up' you may as well spend your time hand finishing the outside surface of the hull itself.

In that case, invert the scheme so the mold form IS the lay-up form.

I'd still build a CNC gantry to route a sprayed-on foam layer over a crude form and coat it with an epoxy release shell - but that's me.

My final thought - much the same as most of the other opinions - don't do it.

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