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Why Two Geiger Muller Tubes in a Geiger Counter?

03/24/2013 12:31 AM

I have one of these Russian RKSB-104 Geiger counters ,just like the one in the picture, and was wondering why two tubes? They are both the same (SBM 20) and running on the same voltage and are basically wired in parallel. Since they must be quite expensive to make with two ....and its not a high end meter (I think)... why is it done?

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#1

Re: Why two Geiger Muller tubes in a Geiger counter?

03/24/2013 1:23 AM

Just a guess.

When you consider what Geiger counters are designed to measure, maybe redundancy isn't such a bad idea.

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Guru

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#2

Re: Why two Geiger Muller tubes in a Geiger counter?

03/24/2013 1:38 AM

Why two? Guess they couldn't fit four like this one:

Now, every Geiger tube type has an inherent "zero radiation" pulse rate, of pretty

inconsistent and random pulses, that makes a "noise floor", near which you can't

"see" much. I'm guessing that counting the sum of pulses of more than one tube,

gives more info in that, very useful low end, just above background radiation, and

instrument's useful dynamic range, increases . S.M.

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Power-User

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Why two Geiger Muller tubes in a Geiger counter?

03/24/2013 7:46 AM

I wonder what causes these random pulses? Temperature? I thought it required an ionising particle to cause the ionisation that could escalate into a count? I like the photo you posted --- thats lots of tubes.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Why two Geiger Muller tubes in a Geiger counter?

03/24/2013 8:32 AM

Most of what causes the random pulses is background ionizing radiation. The background level is not zero. There is a statistical possibility that the thermal noise of a resistor or the shot noise of a bias current can be an individual pulse. Unless the electronics is a lousy design or the background radiation levels locally happen to be exceptionally tiny, this detector noise is nominally orders of magnitude smaller than nominal background levels.

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#7
In reply to #2

Re: Why two Geiger Muller tubes in a Geiger counter?

02/03/2016 4:43 AM

where can I buy SI-29BG and SBM-20 GM Tubes at low price about $10/each? Anyone knows the bulk supplier of these? I want to thank in advance for help. I am developing electronic circuits for various types of GM Tubes. I do have LND-712 and something similar to SBM-20 with shielded top. I am also going to get LND-713. Idea is to make the circuit for about $50-$90 range easy to use high performance type for educational purpose. I can share my experimental results if people are interested.

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#5

Re: Why two Geiger Muller tubes in a Geiger counter?

03/24/2013 9:16 AM

I suspect the two ion chamber tubes are there just to increase the sensitivity by a factor of two. With twice the cross sectional area comes twice the number of ionization events happening. Some earlier designs thought that by having two tubes the reliability would improve. This has not been found to be true because very rarely does a failure mechanism (corrosion, mechanical damage, gas leakage in or out) affect only one tube. In fact and an ironic twist, a single tube is now considered safer because a failure of the single tube will produce no back ground detection. A failure detected in the detector is safer than a false level reading telling a worker the amount of time they can work.

There is a detector topology though that requires two tubes, a directional radiation detector requires the same particle path to strike both tubes. A coincidence detector circuit (AND gate) looks for pulses that happen at the same time. With this kind of a detector most of the background radiation does not get detected. So the radiation level from a particular source can be identified. Geiger Muller tubes are not well suited for this type of detector topology for some very complicated technical reasons. However, there are some dual Geiger Muller tube designs that switch from area to directional mode so when a radiation worker walks into an unexpected hot region the direction of the added source can be identified.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Why two Geiger Muller tubes in a Geiger counter?

03/24/2013 10:01 AM

Thanks for your really interesting answer. I have been hanging around Geiger counters a long time but there are things there I never knew. David

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