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Battery AH Capacity

05/16/2013 3:39 AM

Can anyone guide me about the sizing of the battery AH.

And I have 20 AH PLT battery and MHD 880 exide battery both are using for start the engine having 12 V, 2.1 kW starter motor.

How both battery differs from each other?

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#1

Re: Battery AH capacity

05/16/2013 3:43 AM

No joy in the Wikipedia articles on these battery types, then?

The amp-hour sizing of the battery pack simply varies the number of starts one can attempt before the pack goes flat.

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#2

Re: Battery AH capacity

05/16/2013 7:25 AM

Batteries for starter motor application are not spec out with AH. They are spec with cold cranking amps.

The batteries differ in that to get a large cold cranking amps there is more surface area on the plates.

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#3

Re: Battery AH Capacity

05/16/2013 3:22 PM

The information for you to perform a comparison can be found on the battery manufacturer's website and in the documentation.

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#4

Re: Battery AH Capacity

05/16/2013 5:38 PM

The AH of the battery is not an accurate measure of its capacity. There is something called the Peukert's exponent which comes into play for all batteries. For exide batteries this number (which should ideally be 1) is around 1.5.

In short, you would be getting less capacity than mentioned. Take this into consideration.

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#5

Re: Battery AH Capacity

05/16/2013 10:49 PM

The MHD 880 is a heavy duty cranking battery and has an equivalent rating of 88Ah, which makes it a bit more than 4 times the capacity of your 20Ah unit, and assuming that the 20Ah is a deep cycle type, then the cranking battery has a better ability to provide high cranking current due to its larger number of plates.

Much better for the job that you envisage.

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#6

Re: Battery AH Capacity

05/17/2013 1:53 AM

here try this.. word to the wise.. I googled "battery ampere hours" and got this from Overland Resources

What is an Amp Hour and How to Calculate Battery Capacity

Posted on August 25, 2009 by Robin43 Comments

An Amp-Hour (ampere-hour, Ah) is a way of describing a battery's capacity - how long it will run before it is drained down. But I can be be more specific: the amp-hour rating for a given battery is the maximum amperage that can be drawn continuously until the battery is completely discharged, flat, empty, drained, dead, over a specific time period.

How Are Amp Hours Determined?

Battery manufacturers complete tests on their batteries to give them an Amp-Hour rating. A typical time period for a test is 20 hours, but it varies - batteries are tested over different periods, such as 24 hours, 75 hours, even 100 hours. But as you'll see below, a 100 Amp-hour battery tested over a 100 hour period (i.e. 1 amp drawn for 100 hours) will not have the same capacity as a 100 Amp-hour battery tested over a 20 hour period (i.e. 5 amps drawn for 20 hours). It turns out that if you drew 1 amp continuously from the 20 hour test battery, it would last for 110-120% longer than on the 100 hour test battery. I'll (try to) explain that later.

Let's Do an Example Calculation

Suppose you have a 100 Amp-hour battery, tested over a 20 hour period. 100 Amp-hours divided by 20 hours = 5 amps. That means that the battery manufacturer claims the battery can sustain a 5 amp load for 20 hours until the battery is completely dead.

That's great, but now put it into realistic terms. For starters you don't want to drain a battery to it's completely flat, empty, dead state as it will significantly reduce the life of the battery. A good rule of thumb (battery type depending) is that you should only drain a battery down to 40% of it's original capacity, or in other words you've only got 60% of the battery to use. This number should be stated by the manufacturer in the documentation.

Back to the 100 Ah, 5 Amp load example: We said you had 20 hours of time when drawing 5 amps, but in fact you only have 60% of that time, so 20 hours x 60% = 12 hours.

Up until now, what we have said is true because we have used the same amperage over the same time period at which the battery was originally tested (20 hour rate). So what if you took your 100 amp-hour battery, but wanted to draw 10 amps from it until it was at the safe discharge level (60%)?

Do the math: 100 Ah / 10 Amps x 60% = 6 hours, right?

Wrong.

The More Amperage You Draw, the Lower the Battery Capacity

That's right, the effective amp hours available drops with the more amps you draw. All of a sudden that 100 Amp-hour battery is not what it says it is. Ok, back to the numbers, lets try to keep this clear:

Using the 100 Ah, 20 hour test battery, at 5 amps draw, you get the full 100% of the battery rating (that's how the battery was tested in the first place, so you should get all 100%!). But step up the amperage to 10 Amps, and you will lower the capacity of the battery by about 10% (or 90% remaining).

That makes 100 Ah x 90% = 90 Ah / 10 Amps draw = 9 hours x 60% (max safe discharge number) = 5.4 hours. And that's quite a difference from the 6 hours you thought you had.

Where Did I get the 90%?

I'm going to stop here and leave you hanging - except to say that there's a relationship defined called Peukert's Equation, and that's where the approximate 90% comes from. The Peukert Equation quantifies the above phenomenon so that you can predict how much time you'll actually have on a battery given a specific discharge rate.

What's Next - How About A Helpful Tool?

My guess is that if you're still reading this your about ready to start figuring out how many batteries you need, and you could really use a little help with the calculation. You might have gone to the Wikipedia site above to investigate what Peukert had to say, but exponents aren't really your thing, and you can't find your calculator anyway.

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#7

Re: Battery AH Capacity

05/17/2013 10:01 AM

According to the post, the starter could pull as much as 175 amps depending on the torque to turn the engine. This is much more than the 20 AH PLT could deliver. If the starter is grossly oversized, then it would pull fewer amps but I think the inrush could do serious damage to the PLT battery. If the torque to start the engine were very low and it started quickly, it might do it a few times but I would suspect that it would quickly damage the PLT battery. In addition to AH rating, different battery types have different internal resistance when loaded. The flooded lead acid type has the lowest internal resistance with high amperage short term loads, but the resistance generally goes up as the AH go down. Even if the PLT could start the engine, I would not recommend it's use for that application.

I first thought that perhaps you were talking about the batteries being in parallel. If that is the case, damage could still occur to the PLT. I did see a situation where on a generator, two batteries of different types were run in parallel, but the smaller one was locked out of the high starter current application and in reality only ran the microprocessor that operated the controls. This worked well since the high starting current actually dropped the larger batteries voltage enough that computer would have had voltage spikes when the current dropped that could have damaged the computer. We are talking about a really large generator however and the starting battery was much larger than one in a Semi-truck. In another application we ran into a situation where they did not use this approach and ran into a lot of problems of the computer dropping out during starts. The manufacturer didn't allow modification to the circuit to improve things and it caused a lot of problems and finally court actions.

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#8

Re: Battery AH Capacity

05/20/2013 11:16 PM

At OP, you want batteries for the rated voltage, a high AH, and low Peukert's exponent. Li-ion batteries have the lowest Peurkert's exponent numbers, while Lead Acid have high values.

Check these values.

The discharge rate is related to the AH, if a 100 AH battery is discharged at 100 amps, it means you are drawing at a 1C rate. If its 10 amps, you are drawing at a 0.1 C rate. So this implies higher the AH, more current you can draw without deteriorating the actual capacity of the battery. Because for a 10 AH battery, the same 10 amps is a 1C rate.

The 40% discharging rule Brich mentioned is right. You want the depth of discharge to be lower to keep the battery longer.

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