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Strange Phasor Reading

08/01/2013 10:22 PM

Hello, Yesterday our electrical contractor doing performance test for the water pump with 75kW electric motor supplied by Portable generator. At first the Power Meter Reading show negative kW, power factor is leading and not balanced and it turns out that the wiring is wrong. After check and rewiring we run the pump again, now all the power factor is lagging but the values is very low 0.5. I check with 3 phase multimeter, the reading between kW and kVAR is reversed with Power Meter reading. Me and contractor have debate about this matter, they dont trust our multimeter but our bargaining position is better because the contractor can not provide the 3 phase multimeter for their own. I attach picture for the phasor reading in Power Meter, is it normal for 0.8pf motor to have these value? Is it possible that portable generator Power Factor affecting the motor power factor because portable generator nameplates shows Power factor is 0.8.

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#1

Re: Strange Phasor Reading

08/02/2013 12:39 AM

Your toys are too fancy for your understandings.

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#6
In reply to #1

Re: Strange Phasor Reading

08/02/2013 5:58 AM

you are right, that is why I ask for some opinion from someone who have experience something like this. I better ask for something I dont know rather than stay quiet to hide my stupidity.

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#2

Re: Strange Phasor Reading

08/02/2013 2:12 AM

Which wiring was changed? Did the pump run OK before the test? Does the pump run under load after the wiring was changed? Or was only the wiring of the measurement changed?

Its a bit "wiring". One thing for sure its not who has the biggest car its also who can drive it!

Do you or your contractor have a test procedure for this?

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#3

Re: Strange Phasor Reading

08/02/2013 3:19 AM

...and what sort of load is on the motor? Is it fully loaded or not?

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#4

Re: Strange Phasor Reading

08/02/2013 5:10 AM

The power factor of your motor is correct. I have done some test on one of the factory induction motor and the PF is register at 0.5. So we use capacitor to improved the PF of the motor to 0.85. This is because the induction of the motor when running.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Strange Phasor Reading

08/02/2013 5:55 AM

Then what is the meaning of nameplate? because power factor in nameplate shows 0.8

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#7

Re: Strange Phasor Reading

08/03/2013 5:18 AM

If we consider actual [sinfi]=registered p.f.[cosfi] and recalculate the actual p.f.=sqrt(1-sinfi^2) on each phase then we get 87.1 kw total active power supplied and if 75 kw is rated then efficiency will be 75/87.1=86% [reasonably].

No possibility of wrong exterior connection[switching phases or "in" to "out" or supply voltage R-Y instead of R-N -in this case the total power would be sqrt(3) times more.

In my opinion the wattmeter circuit has an additional large reactance parallel with the measuring circuit and turn it into varmeter[measuring sin(I,V) instead of cos(I,V)].

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#8

Re: Strange Phasor Reading

08/04/2013 12:16 PM

If you would use voltage transformers for ARN Power Meter of 400/230 V a wrong wiring could occur!

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#12
In reply to #8

Re: Strange Phasor Reading

08/20/2013 5:36 AM

The PT from 400/110. Dyn5 connection.

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#9

Re: Strange Phasor Reading

08/05/2013 12:44 PM

"...because portable generator nameplates shows Power factor is 0.8."

Your generator plate shows n.

Now you have loaded it with an inductive load.

Your power factor has decreased from an ideal load to a real-world load.

You may adjust your PF as stated by another, using capacitance.

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#10

Re: Strange Phasor Reading

08/06/2013 6:47 AM

If the voltage at terminal of the meter is supplied by voltage transformers of 400/230 the supply voltage will lag the current with 90-fi and the meter will show sin(fi) instead of cos(fi).

Instead of R-N [the same phase as current IR it is]it is supplied through transformer Y-B[or S-T] then the angle measured is 90-f .

Only 230/230 transformer will solve the problem.

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#11

Re: Strange Phasor Reading

08/18/2013 9:42 AM

Yesterday we bypass the PT and the reading is correct (same with our 3phase multimeter) there is possibility it was caused phase shifting by PT. The PT vector group is Dyn5, so the phase would leading 150゜. Contractor will try using Yyn0 for the PT.

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