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Alignment of Turbine to a Generator

08/03/2013 10:15 AM

Hello ,

I was going though two of our maintenance manuals specifying alignment of

the turbine shaft to the Generator rotor shaft at the point of coupling .

I always noticed that the turbine shaft is atleast 0.14mm higher than the rotor shaft at the time of coupling ? ..

I cannot find a reason for this design .. Is it because of the Jacking oil pump??/

Thank You

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#1

Re: Alignment of Turbine to a Generator

08/03/2013 10:32 AM

There are different designs to handle the load/sag, while putting everything together.

Once things are together, this slight variation likely disappears under the combined weight of the joined components.

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#6
In reply to #1

Re: Alignment of Turbine to a Generator

08/04/2013 2:21 AM

The main thing that is taken into account is the thermal growth of both the generator and the turbine. The turbine is going to grow more than the generator due to the steam driving the turbine. Then there are other factors that have to be accounted for. If it is a back-pressure turbine then it will rise more than the generator. If it is a condensing turbine then it will rise less and the generator will be set high to the turbine. This is due to the turbine growing more than the generator during startup but after the unit is on line the turbine will cool down and fall in line with the generator. There is a formula that can be used to calculate the thermal growth in mils but you have to take a hot reading and a cold reading to be able to do this. Most manufactors of these units will actually give the the growth of each unit by temperature. Alignment has nothing to do with gravity or weight. Only thermal growth and rotor sag. Hope this does not addd to your confusion. Dale

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Alignment of Turbine to a Generator

08/04/2013 8:38 AM

While your explanation has covered most of requirements of TG alignment - think we are ignoring the basic point mentioned in the query. "...... because of Jacking Pump...."

Appears that in this particular case, when the TG is on Barring Gear, normal method of lubrication bearing, which can be for reduction gear or for generator bearings, is not adequate at low barring speed. Hence to protect such bearings, these are jacked up by slightly lifted up by pressurised film of oil between concerned journal and bearing. And as a result of same Mustafamohmd suspects the initial difference of +0.14mm.

Besides, for very large TG Sets, Generator rotor length of order of 8 meters and diameter 1 meters, the sag in the generator rotor can not be ruled out. As a result of slight sag and long length of rotor the face of Generator Coupling Half is at angle with respect to turbine end rotor coupling half. In such case Co-Linearity of two axis is not possible. In such cases we have to make the face of two coupling halves parallel and axis interesting at face of coupling. To achieve same, we have to raise the non - drive end (exciter end) of generator pedestal bearing more than the drive end pedestal bearing to make the face of two coupling halves parallel. Similarly for Super Thermal Power Plants, using TG sets of 1000MW, possibility is of Synchronous alternator being coupled at both ends with turbines (I assume, I have not seen), the far ends pedestal of concerned turbines might have to be raised to take care of sag of Generator rotor.

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#14
In reply to #8

Re: Alignment of Turbine to a Generator

08/04/2013 5:02 PM

Jacking oil is not used in the formula for alignment, due to the fact that all the bearings on a unit with jacking oil will have the same lift. I have been working on steam turbine generators from 1 mw to 1000 mw for the past 40 years. The only thing calculated into the formula is thermal growth. The rotor sag is calculated in on 100 mw and up and is compensated by offsetting the vertical face of the coupling by being open a few mils either at the top or bottom verticle axis. I have corrected many units that had vibration problems by either calculating the thermal rise of each side of the supporting feet of the unit or by changing the active length of the bearing to eliminate oil whip. Thermal growth is the one thing that will always screw up alignment. You are right about the outboard end of the generator being higher in elevation and that is due to the thermal growth of the generator. Dale

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#2

Re: Alignment of Turbine to a Generator

08/03/2013 11:00 AM

T hanks for the reply.

But I dont understand it completely..

Suppose they were at equal levels. ..

What would be the worst thing that could happen then?

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Alignment of Turbine to a Generator

08/03/2013 12:11 PM

They wouldn't fit together properly and would bind up.

I think that some shaft designs are made to compensate for gravity while assembling. It's important to get the jacking gear engaged fairly quickly after assembly to prevent warping.

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#10
In reply to #2

Re: Alignment of Turbine to a Generator

08/04/2013 10:32 AM

One of the TG set is BPST - where I noticed the 0.14mm dip of the generator rotor to the axis of the turbine.

When I referred to jacking oil jumps for the generator , I was referering to a GT based generator with a barring/turning gear at the GT end that turns the shaft upto 39RPM during startup and handles shutdown conditions , at both times - the jacking oil pumps do come into service. The turbine journals on 3 journal bearings - while the generator sits on 2 journal bearings - I do not know which end of the coupled shaft is lower . I have not measured , I have heard its lower, but havent been able to get more info on it.

Please correct me here - As all of you have rightfully pointed out - It is the SAG due to thermal expansion that has to be accounted for the hotter portion of the shaft coupling . A Sag causes the shaft to expand due to thermal expansion , this will cause it to dip when at lower RPM's when cooling is not effective. Here it would be the turbine shaft as it is a GT . Since the Generator rotor is much heavier in the center than at its DE and NDE , it would also be higher at the DE and NDE than that the center naturally while sitting on its bearings...

Once cooling is effective, the SAG is insignificant and the TG shaft become colinear.

The jacking oil pump lifts the generator rotor during start up and shutdown to lower torque and friction levels while the normal lube oil pumps turned by the turbine are not in picture.

which shaft do you believe , would be higher or lower under decoupled conditions from this data.....

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#4

Re: Alignment of Turbine to a Generator

08/03/2013 3:20 PM

Whichever item has more thermal expansion will be mounted slightly lower. As it warms up in operation, it will come into alignment.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Alignment of Turbine to a Generator

08/03/2013 4:27 PM

It's an interesting hobby, but I quit trying to figure out why manuals specify certain things, a long time ago.

Now I just follow the directions...mostly. If I screw up something the first time, it's time to break out the manual.

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#11
In reply to #5

Re: Alignment of Turbine to a Generator

08/04/2013 10:53 AM

Manuals would be useless, and much bigger, if the time were taken to explain why things are done a certain way.

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#7

Re: Alignment of Turbine to a Generator

08/04/2013 2:32 AM

As a general rule, as indicated by Tornado, hot equipment is intentionally kept lower than the relatively cooler equipment while doing alignment correction. The idea is that, on running condition both will grow (expand in vertical direction) and expected to be at equal level (both the shafts center lines are collinear). But bigger equipment suffer complex expansion patterns. While the frame expansion vertically (nevertheless) disturbs the alignment, the shaft expansion, linearly affects the DBSE (Distance Between the Shaft Ends). Both expansions strain the coupling, cause undesirable vibration and component failures. Despite careful design considerations, some amount of undesirable expansion are unavoidable. On a heavy machines the center line of shafts may not (mostly will not) grow parallel to the position fixed while alignment. For instance in the case of a big turbine, the vertical growth of the pedestal at inboard and outboard may be different because of the relative prevailing conditions like temperatures (nozzle end would be hotter than the exhaust end), the supports (bottom support at one end and center-line support at the other end), the insulations and many more. These factors lead to inclined placement of the shaft while running if not well predicted and accommodated at cold condition.

It is paramount important to keep the shafts (driver and driven) collinear in running condition rather than when not running. In other words, if only we keep the shafts in a (calculated) misaligned condition, they will assume a near perfect collinear alignment while running. OEMs do give 'cold alignment protocol' and preferred DBSE value in their manual or on demand.

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#12
In reply to #7

Re: Alignment of Turbine to a Generator

08/04/2013 11:32 AM

Although I thought this topic should rather be posted in Mechanical engineering category, anyways reply from @yesyen is "SPOT ON"

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#13
In reply to #7

Re: Alignment of Turbine to a Generator

08/04/2013 3:30 PM

That was a brilliant answer. Thank You!

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#9

Re: Alignment of Turbine to a Generator

08/04/2013 9:49 AM

Thank you all for the brilliant replies!

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#15

Re: Alignment of Turbine to a Generator

08/25/2013 5:31 AM

Dear Mr.mustafamohd,

You referred "...I always noticed that the turbine shaft is atleast 0.14mm higher than the rotor shaft..."

Actually it is the other way, the Turbine Shaft will be lower than the Alternator shaft - IN ORDER TO COMPENSATE FOR THERMAL EXPANSION of the Turbine Shaft, since it will work at High Temp, and precisely it can be calculated.

To-day only I saw the posting by you. Pl. clarify.

DHAYANANDHAN.S

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Alignment of Turbine to a Generator

08/25/2013 10:11 AM

You are right. Thank you so much.

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