Overdrive, Is It an Additional Speed Gear?

I do not profess to be an expert in the field. I am just joining in with the discussion by expressing what I know and giving my opinion. Unlike some, I am quite happy to admit when I am wrong, and you may have noticed (or probably not, since you don't bother reading and trying to understand what others have written. You just pounce on snippets that you can twist, or take out of context, to try to make yourself look clever!) that I have already corrected myself, or been corrected, several times in this thread. It is called learning, which is what some of us appreciate about CR4. Of course I was wrong to say that Lyn was totally correct (and clearly even more wrong to say that Autobroker was also correct!). I think that Lyn was probably misled by the OPs original statement that the transmission was "4-speed with the option of overdrive" and, like many of us, assumed that this meant '4-speed PLUS overdrive' rather than '4-speed WITH overdrive', but this misapprehension was corrected in a subsequent post.

Again you have missed the fact that I subsequently admitted that I should have been more precise about dates (and corrected this), but the gist of it was true. Again you seem to have twisted, or misunderstood, what I said about the 'introduction' of overdrive. I never said that the British Auto manufacturers introduced overdrive to the US or to the world. You need to learn and understand what 'context' is all about. You will see that throughout that paragraph I am talking about British cars, British carmakers, British road conditions and the circumstances in Britain that led to the introduction of overdrive in Britain. No mention of the US, or any other countries. If you look at the context the meaning is quite clear, and you are wrong again.

Read these two extracts:

""few manufacturers" have used the term "overdrive" to promise something special…"

"There have been a few manufacturers since the early 80s that have used the term 'overdrive' to promise something special…"

Maybe the difference is too subtle for you, but I would have thought it was obvious and massive. That little "a" in front of "few" changes the whole meaning. It is one thing for you to not understand what you are reading (or failing to read), but to misquote it in such a way as to completely change the meaning is unforgiveable. You really should make sure that you have properly read and understood what someone says before you try to criticise it, otherwise you end up looking foolish.

And if you read it properly you will see that I am not saying that "These benefits" are "always quite meaningless". I am not saying that at all. I am saying that the use of the term 'overdrive' is always quite meaningless (in relation to these benefits). (Try reading it again). This comes down to the fact that "these benefits" are actually taken for granted by many (such as Europeans) who expect to get "these benefits" as a matter of course. It is expected, and quite normal, since all transmissions these days (that I know of) have an overdrive top gear, and have done in Europe for many decades. You say that I "state this as fact", when in fact I never even mentioned the benefits, I actually only mentioned "the term 'overdrive'". Yet again you have accused me of being wrong by saying I said something which clearly I didn't. So who is really wrong now, yet again?

Actually I have been a bit unfair. Lexus are not really to blame, they (and others like Audi and Honda) have just been drawn into the need to 'offer' overdrive because many others already were, so the market expected it (without really knowing what it means). It is probably Ford (and then GM) who are to blame. The marketing people have certainly done a good job (Someone else also mentioned this. It could have been JNB.) But why did the marketing people succeed in the US but saw abject failure in Europe?

My dear friend 'Autobroker', I am truly so sorry that we have wasted so much of each others time. At least I have the comfort of knowing that I have actually learnt a little bit from this thread, whereas you have clearly learnt nothing. So I win, ya boo to you!

"Oh yeah, you're now an expert on English as well" , well, actually, yes. I am English (as well as British) and Canadian, and my education has included language (several European languages, as well as English, and also Engineering). I have to reluctantly agree that even I am not the most precise and concise in expressing things in my native language, but most of "you peons" seem to understand very well what I say, to the nth degree. All of "you peons", seem to at least get the gist of what I am saying. You are one of the rare few that completely misses the point, or are you just playing stupid and twisting things for your own end?!

If you still don't know the difference between "a few" and "few" as a qualifying term, why not google it, or ask someone who knows. Sorry, I forgot, you can't google, and won't accept the verdict of anyone who knows better, so that was a pretty stupid thing to suggest. Rather pointless to list all the car manufacturers you know of, it means nothing here.

And it has nothing to do with the "Queen's English". You are probably too stupid to know, for example, that "American English" today is closer to the "King's English" of , say 1750, than the "Queen's English" today. And the fact that I have spent much of my life in the UK also has nothing to do with it, since my family (before me) has been based in Canada since the 1770s/80s. It has to do with reading and understanding what somebody says, rather than seeing what you want to see, misinterpreting what has been said, or just being downright stupid, ignorant or vindictive.

You still ignore the simple and obvious questions that I have posed, clearly because they are beyond you, so let me just add the following:

"To answer your question, my clients don't care if their car has a 4 speed, 5 speed or 6 speed automatic with overdrive. In the US, we typically use the term 4 speed, 5 speed or 6 speed to designate a manual transmission - something you would know if you lived here. I don't use the term 5 speed when speaking to my client about an automatic transmission, for a couple reasons. First, they typically don't care if it's a 4, 5 or 6 speed. Second, I could confuse them by using these terms and I would need to accentuate that it's an AUTOMATIC transmission.

For buyers who are engineers or "car guys", I can use the terms 4, 5 or 6 speed automatic, since they understand, but all the general public wants to know it that it's an automatic and it has some sort of overdrive (smoother on the freeway and better gas mileage)."

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Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Isn't this rather condescending of you? Do your customers that understand what 4, 5 or 6 speed automatic is also understand what overdrive is? Why don't your customers understand what overdrive is? You clearly tell your customers that 'overdrive' gives "…smoother on the freeway and better gas mileage)."

Do your customers not deserve to know that all transmissions these days are overdrive (according to your universal defintitions), (giving performance that is - "smoother on the freeway and better gas mileage)." If you are not prepared to tell them this, who will?" (Or do you not use the "less than 1:1 defintion?!!!" - no, of course you do. You're the one who told me all about it, afterall!)

Or do you tell your customers that only cars that offer "overdrive" actually give these "benefits"?

Interesting to see that Audi (whom you quote as mentioning 'overdrive' in the past ((only in the US, by the way, and certainly NEVER in Europe)), no longer use the term 'overdrive' In the US on their latest 8-speed automatics. Why do you think this is? It is clearly not because Americans are not interested if their transmission has 8 gears, otherwise they would have called it 'Automatic + Overdrive' rather than 8-speed automatic? Is it because, as you have pointed out, Americans are too stupid to understand the difference between 3-speed and 8-speed? (I have never said this, by the way, only you, which is an indication of how you consider your customers!). The US auto industry is clearly miles ahead of you in acknowledging that the US public are intelligent enough to be fed the truth. Hence this 2013 brochures from Audi, which no longer uses the term 'overdrive':

(https://pictures.dealer.com/aoa/a1da75f50a0d02b7012297d70709d2db.pdf

I have had the occasion to drive this car for a few days, last week and back in June. The car is an absolute peach, as is the 8-speed automatic gearbox. If anyone had the nerve to tell me to buy from them a US car with "Automatic transmission, with overdrive" (say 4-speed, or even 5-speed, which would clearly be far better, because it has overdrive!) as opposed to this, I would be inclined to think that they were an utter idiot! What do you think? What would your customers think?

If you were really smart, (fat chance!), could you not sell bucketloads of these Audis to your customers by telling them,( quite honestly), that it doesn't just have overdrive, it actually has 2 overdrive gears (could even be 3, but I only ever managed to reach 6^th going uphill at 45-50mph, and can't remember the revs, and never actually got onto the freeway, or into 7^th/8th, and I haven't checked the ratios). No! Clearly you can't sell on this basis since the manufacturers literature doesn't mention 'overdrive'! Please clarify if you have a clue about this.

Now I have to own up here. I read again through your previous posts, which had gained GA votes, to see which ones might be worthy of an OT vote. Sadly there were none, so I left it as is. Which leaves me rather perplexed! How can one person get so many good answers and stupid answers in one thread?

OK. Back in 1979, a Chevy Nova had an engine that had a crankshaft that ran from the front to the back. The transmission was bolted to the bach of that. Then there was a driveshaft, followed by a rear axle housing that changes the crankshaft and transmission 90 degrees.

If the driveshaft was lower than 1:1 it was an overdrive. If it was 1:1, it was not. Simple.

But, in 1980, the Nova became the Citation. Now the crankshaft ran from side to side. For space saving, the transmission was spun 180 degrees from the crankshaft, and placed side by side with the transmission. Even if the transmission itself still had the same gear ratios as the Nova transmission, we do not know the method used to connect the transmission to the crankshaft. Is it a chain as the Oldsmobile Tornado used? Or is it a matching set of gears? AND who says that is spins at a 1:1 ratio?

So, that old Nova transmission with the 1:1 high gear could now be under driven, direct driven, or overdriven.

And now please explain to me how to determine overdrive on this design drive train.

Hi Bob,

You have in fact touched on something that is probably far bigger than you realise.

You could ignore the connection between crankshaft and gearbox if you accept the definition of overdrive as engine speed (ie crankshaft speed) vs. gearbox output speed (ie. before differential and wheels!) being less than 1:1.

The whole thing becomes rather meaningless when you bring vehicle size, wheel size, engine size & power, diff. ratio, etc, etc, into the equation.

Perhaps we should ask our friends in CR4 what it (overdrive) means to them. To me it has been nonsense since the 70s.

Agreed on all counts. The 79 was early clearcoat, or late single coat paint. I think there was a lot of crap paint industry wide for a few years. The Nova body had been a great little car for GM for a few years, but had grown fat, and not as efficient as it needed to be for the times. As for the Citation, I had the opportunity to maintain a few in a fleet when they first were released. To a man, the drivers all wanted their old worn out cars back. And the old cars were Matadors and Concords. (Remember them?)

Yes, spot on, RAMConsult! The sad thing is that it is not just the auto manufacturers marketing people who are at work. So-called industry experts are happy to perpetuate myths and add to the confusion if it will help them get sales.

Hello again,

I would like to thank you very much for your time and I'm glad to see so many replies and the debate on the subject.

After all the research I have learned that :

• My car is a four-speed car, that includes the over-drive, i.e. the highest gear is 4th.
• The type of transmission used is U140E, this is what it says in the OEM Diagnostic Manual.
• I, myself, checked the loop of the suspected solenoid as per the troubleshooting article and found it open.
• Finally, I purchased one from an auto shop and had it replaced two days ago.
• The check-Engine light has not lit again and I hope it won't, since the loop is complete.

I didn't notice a significant difference in my driving experience and the RPM seems to be the same while driving above 45 MPH but hope there is no damage being caused to my transmission now.

Thank you again for replying to my question. Any comment or suggestion will be appreciated! :)

Glad to hear everything turned out well for you. If the transmission is shifting well and the check engine light is off, then you should be okay. Remember that you may need to drive 150 miles or so before the computer will trigger a check engine light, but typically with a transmission solenoid issue, the computer triggers instantly.

By the way, what was the cost and amount of time for the repair?

Thanks for the feedback - it's greatly appreciated but rarely received. Did it turn out to be the overdrive shift solenoid or the torque converter lock-up solenoid? I'm also interested in the approximate cost/effort required.

Thank you Big and Autobroker!

The MEL used to come on very soon, e.g; in 30 miles of drive.

The code was P0773 which is 'Shift Solenoid E DSL' and it's the lock-up solenoid, since all the gears were shifting fine but there might have been an issue with the lock-up which I wasn't able to notice. I checked the diagram and confirmed the location of the solenoid and was able to get a new solenoid for 376 AED or 102.37 $ from a local shop here in UAE.

Not much efforts, except I had to exchange the valve body gasket and the transmission oil strainer with the other type since there were two types, A & B.

Also, I had already purchased all that I needed and went to the mechanic, asked him to replace it for me. Since, I was sure that the solenoid was open.

The mechanic didn't take longer than 3 hours to finish the job.

The total cost was about 900 AED or 245$ (includes transmission oil, gasket, strainer and service charges). I did check the loop of the solenoid as soon as he installed the new one and there was a resistance of 14 Ohms.

$245 sounds wonderful. The ES 300's are great cars. Ours was a prior gen (1994) that went over 236K miles before it was totalled in an accident. My mom and my sister both have late 90's ES's (same gen as yours). Be glad you don't have the next gen car. The early ones have a bad transmission software bug.

Enjoy your Lexus and the many miles of driving you'll get!

Oh yeah, Toyota calls the transmission a U140E, where the manufacturer of the transmission, which is Aisin Warner calls it an A541E (a=automatic, 5 series is for heavier applications (vs 1 and 2 for four cylinder), 4 = four forward gears and E=electronic shifting).