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How to Make This?

08/26/2013 6:16 AM

Friends, first of all I am not an engineer. But I am planning to make exhibits for science museum which would require some engineering skills. As such I would like to get only positive and constructive comments from fellows who can help me-

Problem 1- I want to use a scissor lift table with a manual tongue jack. On that table, the load will be around 20kgs. The shaft of the tongue jack, in turn, would not be rotated directly. Rather a free wheel(say A) would be attached to it which in turn would be linked to another wheel(say B) by chain. As a result, when the visitor would turn the second wheel(B), the tongue jack would work,thereby lifting the table. Pls note that the visitor can see only the second wheel and the effect that would happen because of the rise of the table.Moreover the wheel arrangement should help in moving the jack both clockwise and anti clockwise.

Is this idea feasible. If yes, can you please give me the specifications of the tongue jack and other mechanical items that should used.

Problem2- I would like to fit a IR thermometer on a bar. Lets say the bar is around 4 feet in length. There would be two switches corresponding to two ends of the bar say A and B. When the visitor press switch A, the thermometer would glide towards point A. It would stay there. Again if the visitor press switch B, it would go to B. How can this arrangement be made. Pls note that I live in a area which is erosion prone.

How to make this arrangement.

Waiting for a positive response at the earliest.

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#1

Re: How to make this

08/26/2013 7:15 AM

I am not sure if i am able to correctly understand your requirements but to my extent possible.

for 1st activity, guess you try to use a car jack lift arrangement.

send me your mail id so that i can send few pics for you to see and then start your work. hope i am able to help you in more detail.

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#2

Re: How to make this

08/26/2013 8:31 AM

Thanks a lot for your reply. Well I want to use Tongue jack because I felt that the car jack would be difficult to operate through the wheel arrangement. But I can send you the proposed design in your mail if I get the same.

Thanks.

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#12
In reply to #2

Re: How to make this

08/27/2013 12:05 AM

mail me n let me see how much can i make use of myself to your needs.

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#14
In reply to #12

Re: How to make this

08/27/2013 3:15 AM

Reported. See #7.

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#15
In reply to #2

Re: How to make this

08/27/2013 3:57 AM

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: How to make this

08/27/2013 4:32 AM

Reported. See #7.

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#3

Re: How to Make This?

08/26/2013 9:04 AM

Maybe a drawing would helps us understand what it is you want to do. I understand the tongue jack and scissor table but do not quite understand exactly what you are trying to do with the thermometer. I sent you a private message

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#4

Re: How to Make This?

08/26/2013 9:50 AM

P2. Can you mount the bar on a center pivot and let gravity move the thermometer from end to end.

Or can you use a little motor to drive a chain back and forth?

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#5

Re: How to Make This?

08/26/2013 11:46 AM

P1- Yes its possible. Get rid of the tongue jack. Use some acme thread. With the acme nut attached to the moveable arm at the the base. The other end attached to the base in a bearing assembly. Couple sprockets, a chain and wheel with mounting.

P2- Erosion prone. Define the the extent of the erosion. Because if your looking for something that will take a mud slide that wipes out the building its in and it still work. Needs a little more thought then a simple slide in which the end are tilted up and down.

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#6

Re: How to Make This?

08/26/2013 3:01 PM

I spent a lot of time and put a lot of thought in responding to this thread only to have my reply vanish when I tried to submit it. Apparently this sight is only letting short, sarcastic, and nonconstructive responses to get posted.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: How to Make This?

08/26/2013 3:52 PM

I see none of the type of responses you mention here.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: How to Make This?

08/26/2013 4:26 PM

no personal offence intended. I was just venting my frustration over loosing a lengthy, and hopefully a constructive response.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: How to Make This?

08/26/2013 4:39 PM

No offense taken, since I'm as guilty as anyone about short snide comments.

There was a glitch, and a response regarding this loss of longer, detailed posts.

Not sure of the outcome, but the temp fix seems to be to copy longer responses to the clipboard for safety.

Maybe Savvy Exacta can refresh our memories.

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#18
In reply to #8

Re: How to Make This?

08/27/2013 7:26 AM

welcome to the club, that happens all too frequently.......usually after a well thought out reponse

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: How to Make This?

08/27/2013 1:52 PM

"...usually after a well thought out reponse."

Well, that explains the unusually few recent comments from Doorman.

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#17
In reply to #6

Re: How to Make This?

08/27/2013 7:07 AM

I've had that happen too.

I don't know what causes it, but I now use the highlight/ copy function, before attempting to submit. If it disappears, I just open a new response window, paste, and submit. It seems to have something to do with the length of time that the response window is open...so the lengthy, well thought out posts are the most likely to disappear.

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#21
In reply to #17

Re: How to Make This?

08/28/2013 12:00 AM

For any lengthy entry, I do the original either in a word processor or in my CAD program, then copy and paste into the CR4 editor.

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#23
In reply to #21

Re: How to Make This?

08/28/2013 3:25 PM

dkwarner-

Yes, although if the WP is MS WORD, it might be clearer if stated as "drag". "Highlight the entry in the word processer, place the mouse over this, push the left mouse and drag it over to a fresh blank comment box". This is from my experience doing basically the same that you do. If the WP is highlighted and copied it will not paste to the CR$ comment box. This was a "speed bump" in my search to a workable solution to the time delay problem.

As with you probably, it is a great time saver and you get a sense of accomplishment when you work it out!

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#24
In reply to #23

Re: How to Make This?

08/29/2013 10:38 AM

Since I'm a long-time Mac user (very close to 30 years), there are slight differences. I do use MS Word occasionally, and I'm using it right now, but I've never gotten used to a Right and Left button. I work almost entirely on a laptop, and nearly always use a trackpad; my right index finger is the pointer, and my right thumb clicks the button on the right side. My left hand is thus available to press Shift, Option, etc. as needed. It would be very inconvenient for me to use the left side button with my right thumb, so I have my preferences set so there is effectively only one button, which of course acts as the left button. If I need to right-click something, I use Option-Click.

I do drag to select text and other items, but in this case I would use Command-A (Control-A on a PC) to select all, Command-C to copy the selection to the Clipboard, then go to the CR4 editor and Command-V to paste the selection into the editor. I don't recall ever having any difficulty pasting into the CR4 editor.

One other item that might influence the procedures is the choice of browser. I currently use Firefox. Safari is the default browser on Macs, but the CR4 toolbar

does not appear in Safari, so I don't use it. I haven't tried Chrome.----

I just pasted the above from Word. More in a second post...

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#25
In reply to #23

Re: How to Make This?

08/29/2013 10:49 AM

I posted my previous post last night, but this morning it did not show, so I just posted it a second time, adding a minimum to the Word text to save time. I closed the window and then returned, and the new post does show. I'm now typing directly in the CR4 editor window.

As you can see, although all the text from Word pasted correctly, the graphic (a partial screen shot of the CR4 Toolbar) did not. The original paste from Word appeared in a serif font (the Word default), but the preview changed it to CR4's standard sans-serif font.

There does appear to be a rather short time limit on posting/editing...

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#26
In reply to #25

Re: How to Make This?

08/29/2013 12:07 PM

dkwarner-

In reading you last answer, as you and I have already stated, we both notice there are many ways that things can be done. I now understand more about the problems you are having with the posting. As with many of the contributors, and myself included, we sometimes tend to associate the posting with our own particulars and not the general or specifics of the posting. This is a constant problem with this type of forum and many of the users but enough of that for now. That is something that can only be discussed in a very great amount of time and I don't think you are interested, as I am not, discussing that tangential subject at this time.

I cited the process I did because I didn't know what you had a Mac. A majority of people use "IBM" based PC's, probably the most used word processor (wp) is Microsoft Word (although there are many wp's that can be used with this forum), and I am most familiar with these units and this wp. In this approach I guess you could say I am the "averagely" equipped user. Sorry if my approach was wrong. I went to the "average" question and answer concept.

There are many, probably many more than you and I realize, CR4 members that have the same problem. The time limit is very frustrating and sometimes counter productive to good and clear answers.

Now to further confuse you and anyone else who is interested in handling the time limit and working with it consider this: Although my right hand is my predominate hand and the one which I write with, I mouse with my left hand. Got into this because for me it is easier to type with both hands, then use my right hand to write or use an adding machine or any other device. This way I don't have to let loose of the mouse, use the other device with my right hand, and then put my right hand back on the keyboard. Especially when writing, this is easier for me since I don't have to let loose of the mouse, pick up the pen/pencil, write, put down the pencil, grab the mouse with my fingers in the proper position and then get back to keyboarding. The left hand also acts as a reference to the location of the keyboard. Same with several other ergonomically compounded motions. Now combine that with I don't have the mouse buttons reversed, as left-handers would probably do, index on right and middle on left. Now combine all these with the "Natural" position keyboard (left keys are split from right keys at the center of the keyboard at an approx. 15o angle) and there is another deviation from average. Now finally, my keyboarding skills are real lousy! The last time I had any keyboarding training was when the names like Smith-Corona and Royal typewriters were the best names for keyboard equipped devices. That was before the development of the work "keyboarding! The IBM "ball" hadn't been introduced yet.

Hopefully my other skills far exceed my keyboarding and mouse skills. I can say that my first programming skills were with Fortran 2 and 4 on a IBM 1130 and I was pretty good at that.

What does all this mean? As an analogy-- "We are both pounding the stake into the ground. Your using a 3# drilling hammer and I'm using a 48 oz. Ball Peen hammer". We are both working on the same problem but with different tools working for the same results.

If you develop a better way to get around the problem, either for mac, PC, or both, please let everyone know. Its a real pain in the A_SS!

Thanks,

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#10

Re: How to Make This?

08/26/2013 5:40 PM

Why not use a Lab Jack, operate it directly, no need for a 2nd jack. (Various other people sell them).

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#11

Re: How to Make This?

08/26/2013 6:21 PM

you might be waiting awhile

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#13

Re: How to Make This?

08/27/2013 12:41 AM

For problem 2, what do you have available? Air? Electricity? I it was me I would look at a pneumatic actuator SMC makes some that have a magnetically coupled mounting pad on them. They work really slick, use a couple of adjustable mufflers on the valves as speed controls and you should be in business. Electric ones are nice, they are more costly but simpler to wire/plumb up. On problem 1 I don't see how using a jack is going to work very well. From what I get you would need a top wind jack with a stub shaft and probably a bearing set up mounted to it, i don't know of a top wind jack that you could just mount a sprocket/wheel to and would handle the side load of that.

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#20

Re: How to Make This?

08/27/2013 10:40 PM

Subhasankar-

I think I have the complete solution to your question and project.

Unfortunately, I can not post it due to confidentially restrictions. This is primarily due to your requirement that:

"As such I would like to get only positive and constructive comments from fellows who can help me"

Some of my reply was negatively polarized for the IR thermometer. Since you want only positive and constructive comments, I can't divulge the construction comments of the answer to your question. I have discussed the construction with some of the most eminent minds available and they agree that it will work for your project! Unfortunately, the limitations of your question do not permit me to meet your question's stipulations.

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#22
In reply to #20

Re: How to Make This?

08/28/2013 1:53 AM

Thanks anyway for giving a thought

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#27

Re: How to Make This?

08/29/2013 5:33 PM

Problem 1.

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#28
In reply to #27

Re: How to Make This?

08/29/2013 6:09 PM

The sketch helps a lot!

GA, except that the pivots on the right side should not be rollers, but rather hinges, based on your description of captive bushing and nut. One disadvantage of this system is that the support does not remain centered when the platform is raised, so the platform becomes a cantilever when raised.

Another possibility would be for the shaft to have right-hand threads on the side away from the handle, left-hand threads on the side toward the handle, and a captive flange at the center. This would of course require a left-hand nut on one side and a right hand nut on the other. It would have at least two advantages: 1. The support would remain centered on the base, and with one more centering link it would also remain centered under the platform. 2. The drive wheel or handle would remain in the same horizontal position, facilitating a chain drive to a remote handle.

The platform would rise twice a fast as yours per screw rotation, but an appropriate selection of thread pitch would take care of that. I'll see if I can find time to make a sketch later this evening...

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#29
In reply to #28

Re: How to Make This?

08/29/2013 9:52 PM

OK Here's my sketch:

Try it! The thread directions shown are so clockwise rotation of the handle will raise the platform.

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#30
In reply to #29

Re: How to Make This?

08/30/2013 1:10 AM

Gee, you know, of course it could be improved - the point was to get him to do a little work on his own. Providing IDEAS which lead to creative thought are better than actually giving the answer as if it was contracted to design. My drawing was intended to provoke discussion from him, and maybe in the process of an exchange of questions and answers he would learn something of mechanical design. For the record, I could have provided the blueprints of the design that the drawing was loosely based on, but thought if he were mentored he would be better off in the long run doing his own stuff rather than being spoon fed. ( no offense intended, and none taken )

For starters, the reverse threaded rod and nut are not common and make the assembly more complex than it need be.

Second, the range of motion being considered in the design would have the scissor elements long enough so they would not be prone to the cantilever effect, I never suggested the scissors be exercised to their limits. there's other reasons for the design as shown, but they were supposed to come out as a learning environment.

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#31
In reply to #30

Re: How to Make This?

08/30/2013 1:31 AM

Yes, you're right!

On the other hand, there's still a lot of information missing to actually build a stable and reliable unit, such as the sizes of everything, pitches of thread, sizes of pulleys/sprockets, etc.

I don't recall if the OP said anything about size, how far it needed to lift, how fast, with how much effort, etc.

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#32
In reply to #31

Re: How to Make This?

08/30/2013 1:39 AM

20Kg, but no range, I expect it is a lift table for a small child and the gearing would be suitable for the average person strength by hand crank as specified "person turns handle". You are also right the lift distance has a large bearing ( pun intended ) on the design elements. Given the mass of "only" 20Kg its likely to be a smallish device.

No mention of any holding or braking mechanism either.

that would be another lesson in adequately describing a design problem.

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#33
In reply to #27

Re: How to Make This?

08/30/2013 2:06 AM

Thanks a lot.

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#35
In reply to #33

Re: How to Make This?

08/30/2013 2:11 AM

the rollers could be drawer slides too, a captive bearing and eliminates some of the stability issues too

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#34
In reply to #27

Re: How to Make This?

08/30/2013 2:06 AM

I did not bother with problem 2 because I could not grasp the idea. Simply the description does not make sense to me. I dont care whose idea or project it is, there has to be enough information to make an intelligent response. Otherwise I might just imagine that you do not want your professor to know you posted his problem on this site LOL

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