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Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/03/2013 7:00 PM

A London skyscraper dubbed the Walkie-Talkie has been blamed for reflecting light which melted parts of a car parked on a nearby street. What happened?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23944679

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#1

Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/03/2013 7:51 PM

They say this is rare, but I see it pretty often.

I wonder why double paned windows have a tendency to warp?

http://www.abc2news.com/dpp/news/local_news/investigations/the-strange-phenomenon-thats-melting-vinyl-siding

http://www.wcnc.com/on-tv/Windows-focus-sunlight-like-a-big-magnifying-glass-and-melt-vinyl-siding--86023697.html

Looks like Low-E windows are a primary culprit...more unintended consequences from stupid rules coming from idiot politicians.

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#2

Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/03/2013 7:55 PM

From your linked article.

"Fundamentally it's reflection. If a building creates enough of a curve with a series of flat windows, which act like mirrors, the reflections all converge at one point, focusing and concentrating the light,"

A similar sort of thing has happened with a few stainless steel clad artistically odd-shaped buildings (that I have heard of) accidentally focusing the light on certain places and causing issues.

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#16
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/05/2013 8:21 AM

you can pretty much look up most of frank gehry's buildings

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#3

Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/03/2013 10:24 PM

Concave adjustable mirrors have also caused fires. Same principle.

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#4

Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/03/2013 11:41 PM

This building in my fair city literally blinds motorists every morning, if the sun is shining. Nobody seems to care.

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#8
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/04/2013 2:55 AM

"... literally blinds ..."Day of the Triffids all over again?
It does seem crass that were the yare deliberately focusing the suns rays with mirrors for power generation, some muppet of an architect will design a South facing curved building...
Never mind he prob' got an award for it
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#9
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/04/2013 5:59 AM

Makes sense- the company blinded the government too, and nobody seemed to care....

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#5

Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/03/2013 11:49 PM

Maintaining such buildings at modest positive pressure would prevent most of this; the glass would be slightly convex instead of concave.

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#6
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/04/2013 1:04 AM

Perhaps it increases the risk of burning more money that is supposed to be inside?

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#7
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/04/2013 1:40 AM

Not in any legitimate calculation.

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#10

Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/04/2013 8:56 AM

"Fryscraper"?

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#11

Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/05/2013 12:55 AM

Check this out!

Some of the unpublished temperatures reached 380 Deg. F. The areas were in unique spots.

  1. Stationary.
  2. Received the maximum reflection on the hottest day.
  3. Had no shade or protection.
  4. Now that the Vdara has been tinted, no incidents have been reported!

Las Vegas has a new hot spot - but it's not a nightclub.

Guests at the new Vdara Hotel & Spa have complained that the glass skyscraper can magnify and reflect the sun's rays onto an area of the pool at temperatures hot enough to singe hair or melt plastic. It's a phenomenon that some hotel employees jokingly call the Vdara "death ray."

Slideshow: Viva Las Vegas! (on this page)

Bill Pintas, a Chicago lawyer and businessman, recently was sunning himself by the pool when he became so uncomfortably hot that he had to move.

"I actually thought that, Oh my God, we've destroyed the ozone layer because I am being burned," Pintas told NBC's TODAY show.


Pintas sought refuge away from the sun's rays, where he described what happened to hotel employees. "I said to the staff, 'I don't know if you know what's going on out here, but I was being burned,' and they're like, 'Yeah, we know. We call it the "death ray." ' ""My head was steaming hot. In fact, my hair felt like it was burning ... I could actually smell my hair burning."

Gordon Absher, a spokesman for MGM Resorts International, which owns the Vdara, said that he prefers the term "hot spot" or "solar convergence."

Slideshow: What's new in Las Vegas (on this page)

occurs when intense heat is created by the curved glass surface of the hotel, which acts as a parabolic dish. The glass bounces the rays from the sun and concentrates the light in 10-by-15-foot hot zone on a portion of the pool deck. Absher said that the hotel's designers foresaw the issue and thought they had solved the problem by installing a high-tech film on the hotel's glass windows to reduce the effect.

Currently, the solar convergence affects only a small portion of the pool deck for about 90 minutes around noon, Absher said.

He added that the hotel is working on a solution to the problem, such as putting in a row of thick umbrellas, shade structures or maybe some large plants. But due to the changing of the seasons and the Earth's rotation, the position of the hotel's "hot spot" changes every day.

"The sun is constantly moving, not only across the sky during the day, but it changes with the seasons," he said. "We're dealing with a moving target."

He also noted that this was the hotel's first summer of operation and that he's confident the hotel will find a solution to the problem. "We're just trying to create a pleasant, relaxing pool experience for our guests," he said.

Vdara, which has a unique crescent design, opened in December 2009 at CityCenter.

BA

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#12

Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/05/2013 4:37 AM

All the responders so far seem to have missed the point. The south wall of the building has been designed with a concave curved shape. The sun shines down at an oblique angle so throwing the focal point onto the road below and a row of shops. Add reflective glass windows and you get a beam of light focussed to a point creating heat sufficient to melt the plastic trim of a very expensive Jaguar car, blister paint on the shop fronts and cause a coconut fibre mat at the entrance to one of the shops to burst into flame.

Don't you miss the time when architects and town planners were dragged out and strung up on the nearest lamp post for this type of cock-up......Ahhh, nostalgia for the old days

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#13
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/05/2013 4:56 AM

Oh, really? For instance, how does post 3 miss the point? (As could be asked of some other posts, too.)

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#14
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/05/2013 5:36 AM

No I didn't miss the point. I just didn't write my post very well.
I was trying to say that seeing as how focussed mirrors are used for power generation any decent architect would have considered it. I was jesting when I suggested he prob got an award.
You've gotta read what I mean... not what I write
I'm going to tell 'Miss' on you....
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#15
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/05/2013 6:47 AM

My post was right on target.

The outlook is increasingly clear: Current double-glazed low-E configurations will not satisfy proposed ENERGY STAR criteria. Instead, window manufacturers should look to triple-glazed and thermally improved and reduced SHGC low-E configurations -including the entire ClimaGuard family of product solutions - to stay ahead of future energy codes and voluntary criteria.

From here: http://www.climaguardglass.com/EnergySolutions/EnergyCodesMore/index.htm

This is what happens when government takes away choices. As far as the US goes, I bet I could build a very compelling trail, between particular manufacturers, large political donations, and the mind numbing array of energy rules and mandates. Politicians are greedy, self serving idiots; it's more apparent by the day.

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#17
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/05/2013 9:20 AM

I have to say, that bumbling government needs to stay out of everything in the private sector, since it is obviously amateur hour in the present admin.

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#18
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/05/2013 9:28 AM

Typical backward Texas attitude. If you don't, or can't understand something, blame the govmint.

How, exactly did "bumbling" government contribute to this problem?

I thought my Texas kinfolk were bad. Maybe it's something in the water?

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#21
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/05/2013 2:56 PM

Why does the "govmint" need to be involved in every single tiny detail of our lives? I think the "govmint" is incompetent, except of course, here in Texas, where they largely leave us the heck alone.

One prerequisite to being an engineer or even an engineering student should be at least a modicum of common sense. Why would you build such a "concave" structure with mirrored windows, and point it at the sun. Moronic in the extreme, unless there was an evil intention afoot.

BTW, I am not backward at all, and am a proponent of all sorts of "green energy", energy conservation, and all forms of energy production. It is an energy world, and it runs on energy, lives by energy, moves by energy, etc., etc.

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#23
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/05/2013 3:46 PM

In the case of building orientation, I doubt that that was mandated by government.

I had framed a lengthy response, but it got zapped by the rogue software here.

I fully agree that government is overstepping its bounds, but, in the case of all the domestic spying, that began during the last watch, not the present one. They've just continued the illegal practices.

Sorry I got us off course.

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#24
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/05/2013 3:52 PM

You really need to copy-paste to a word processor document so you don't lose these more detailed responses (that we all love) if CR4 loses your work. No doubt the current CR4 issues are 'govmint' related.

Jack - For the purposes of this post the defined size of 'we' is variable from reader to reader.

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#26
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/05/2013 4:03 PM

Yes, I know. But, in the heat of passion, my mind only focuses on the item at hand.

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#27
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/05/2013 4:20 PM

Personally, I think that government mandates, stifle innovation, force things into place that may not be a good idea, raise the prices of everything, and favor certain industries over others.

That said, it sure didn't start with this administration, nor is it limited to the US government. I would imagine that the architect on this building, (and all architects), put compliance with government mandates and regulations above all else.

If architects are mandated to design energy efficient buildings that make use of natural lighting...double paned glass is the best material to meet those mandates and make the government happy. Nobody else matters, because they can't shut him down.

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#28
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/05/2013 4:31 PM
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#29
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/06/2013 9:10 AM

Everyone is entitled to at least one candle power. Great. I am so blessed not to live in a metropolis, but only a rather confused, highly in debt medium sized Texas city.

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#30
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/06/2013 9:16 AM

I don't think I could handle living in a city. On the few visits that I've done, I'm like a caged cat; I just want out of there.

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#31
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/06/2013 9:32 AM

Yes, well it does appear that cities are at once a blessing and a curse. Beware of the gift of blessings from some though, they will turn to a curse past the expiration date, rather like the curdling of milk.

On another front, perhaps the good side of these car melting buildings: At least in winter, there is a fair chance that cars parked in the focus of the beam will not have problems with snow accumulation on the windshield (windscreen for those in London) (bug catcher for those who live in Rio Linda)(escuchidera de cukarocha for those living in Tijuana, Cuidad de Juarez, or Guatalejara).

Here in Texas, we just park our pickup truck facing the sun, or point it into the sun in the morning, and all is well. Then we might not be caught standing in the rain, and mama won't get run over by a danged ol' train.

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#32
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/06/2013 9:39 AM

One thing is guaranteed...

The lawyers are scrambling, trying to figure out who to sue. I'd also be looking for more "victims" looking for the hot spots to park their cars.

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#35
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/06/2013 11:18 AM

Maybe the shops in the 'line of fire' should be installing some solar panels as someone has gone to all the trouble of building a giant reflector for them.

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#19

Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/05/2013 9:42 AM

and from beyond the grave, Archimedes has the last laugh. Mwhahahahaha... Mwhahahahahaha...

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#20

Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/05/2013 9:54 AM

I'd be curious to see a video of someone spontaneously combusting in the parking lot walking past the focal point.

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#22
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/05/2013 3:02 PM

Any particular candidates who are politicians? I would like to see anything spontaneous actually happen in Washington, D.S. (used to be D. C.) that was not a total fabrication, an outright lie, or a cover-up.

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#25
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/05/2013 3:54 PM

The list of names I'd like to see is far too lengthy to even begin to type.

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#33

Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/06/2013 11:01 AM

Does anyone realize that WE THE PEOPLE are the Gobmint as some want to call it? For those who cannot call it Government. We are the engineers, archetics, designers, doctors, lawyers, and also Indian Chiefs and influence that drives such demands WE are asking for? Without that demand there is NOTHING.

Government is the instrument of each and every one of us. No bill will ever see the House Floor unless WE THE PEOPLE convince and influence a Representative in Congress to enter it into consideration. SO, start with us, and move out. Lobbyists are the instrument of US to an extreme.

No one likes to admit their idea or plan is not the best way to go. We place other of our numbers in a no win position of trying to satisfy our whimseys, when most of the time if asked we don't actually know just that those whimseys entail, and the unintended consequences of those whimseys are!

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#34
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/06/2013 11:16 AM

You are absolutely wrong when you say,"No bill will ever see the House Floor unless WE THE PEOPLE convince and influence a Representative in Congress to enter it into consideration"

Lobbyists and big business interests do indeed cause many bills to be passed into law on a regular basis. They do this by purchasing influence with donations and gifts to Congress every day.

"We, the People" have little, or no, influence on what congress does, because they are either engaged in raising money, partisan bickering or campaigning 95% of the time they are supposed to be "serving the people".

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#36
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/06/2013 11:37 AM

Read the whole post. It is inclusive!

The right to Lobby is the citizens way to redress Congress, I agree this is misused, but I will also say somewhere in your daily life a LOBBIEST is addressing something that YOU are benefitting from.

Most important and directly addressing this sublect is The Fire and Building Codes which directly affects your Fire Insurance, your Towns Ratings, and the welfare of the public. It has a powerful lobby which YOU support with your Insurance Premiums.

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#37
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/06/2013 12:19 PM

You are free to harbor any misconceptions you choose to about how the politicians run "our" government.

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#38

Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/06/2013 4:29 PM

If you don't love it leave it, it is that simple. If you love it you should be willing to be a part of the solution to your grievences, not whining about them. Yes I have held elected office in a very small community, state or Federal governments are simply larger examples of the same entities.

Yes, I believe one person can make a difference at any level. God Bless America!

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#39
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Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/06/2013 4:51 PM

Lyn's right.

I'm one of millions that are attempting to make a difference, but our "holier than thou" politicians only understand the sound of money. It disgusts me to look at, or listen to, 99% of them, regardless of party...right up to the top. Most of them should be serving prison time.

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#40

Re: Who, What, Why: How Does A Skyscraper Melt A Car?

09/06/2013 5:12 PM

My, my, my someone's being a LITTLE CHILDISH.

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