Which is Better: Hot Dip Galvanizing Fasteners or Electro Galvanizing Fasteners

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=difference+between+Hot+dip+galvanizing+fasteners+and+Electro+galvanizing+fasteners

Use stainless steel.

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Fasteners Manufacturer and Suppliers

Hot dip galvanizing fasteners don't rust nearly as much. Eventually they will rust, but I have had them in outdoor deck applications for over twenty years in Canada, and the rust is minimal even after all that time. It is hard to find hot dip galvanized fasteners which are rated for other than light duty applications. Also, hot dip galvanized fasteners are almost always coarse threaded. So you may not be able to simply swap out a electrogalvanized fastener for a hot dipped fastener.

What you use them for has a lot to do with what you are planning. Deck specifications normally demand hot dipped galvanized fastners, dramatically oversized.

Other than that, I have to agree with Lyn....what cha gonna use 'em for? What does the code call for? What does the specification call for. What does the budget call for? Hot dipped fasteners are usually two to three times the price. Why would they still sell if they were no better than electro galvanized fasteners?

Yusef1-

In addition, they are not compatible with current pressure treated wood chemicals in the USA.

Good Luck, Old Salt

News to me. Thank you.

Oh wait....are you referring to electrogalvanized are not allowed to be used w. pressure treated decking? I had never heard that hot dipped was no longer allowed to be used with p.t. decking.

Do you happen to have a code number?

Good to know. People are building foundations around here with PT wood. I am glad I didn't bid on that contract! (Whew!) I was already pricing out stainless nails. Didn't realize that I would have needed stainless everything else as well. I use a lot of CCA PT, mostly salvage at the moment. Still have a couple of sea land containers full of CCA PT salvage. When its gone, the price of my decks will go up.

Something else for the fly by night contractors to do wrong. tsk tsk.

Speaking of which, I think its time to build a railing. Winter is coming.

Yusef1-

A couple of other problems with using galvanized are:

As stated before it is will react with the preservative and become a sacrificial metal. This then brings up the questions of "When will it fail? I certainly don't want to be enjoying a cold one when it fails since the cold one could spill among other reasons.

With the process of galvanizing the object must be cleaned first or otherwise the galvanizing will not adhere or be as thick as required. If this fastener(s) is used it will fail prematurely. Again back to the "cold one" philosophy. This would be most critical at the junction of beams and joists and also at post junctures.

Compounding the above problems is that the preservative does not penetrate the wood evenly. The standards are for minimum penetration and concentration of preservative. If the galvanized fastener is put in a location where the preservative concentration is high it will deteriorate at a faster rate. This holds true for both single or double dipped galvanizing. Back to the "cold one philosophy.

Also about the St Stl nails, How well do they hold? Are they ring shank or have any coating? I have only used them on wooden boats so I am not familiar with their use on decks.

I bit the bullet on my CCA treated deck. Nails (galvanized) were popping and hurting people's feet I pounding them back down, which didn't hold for a season. I then pulled them out and replaced them with coated screws. The balusters were the same problem and solution. Joists were pulling away from the rim boards so I added Simpson joints with screws. Now I can enjoy a cold one without fear.

Good Luck, Old Salt

Yusef1-

Agree with you that the most important factor in creating a good deck is a contractor who is knowledgeable in all aspects of construction, use and components of a PT deck. Also for decks of made of composite materials.

My concerns with the fasteners were started from my interests in several deck collapses that have occurred locally and distant. At that time I was considering replacing parts of mine to composites. At least two of them were caused by galvanizing problems of the fasteners used for the beams and joists. Another one was determined to be due to excessive penetration and higher than normal concentration of the preservative causing fastener failure.

At least one of them resulted in a fatality. Granted this one was also overloaded at the failure time but none the less the root cause was the fasteners and the preservative.

According to Murphy's Law this sort of thing, although rare, can happen at the worst time and with the worst results.

Thanks for relating your experiences to my posting.

Good Luck, Old Salt

And regular inspection. An exposed deck is an outdoor thing which became popular in seventies....they are ALL reaching the limit of their useable lifetime. Want it to last longer, you have to put a roof over it. And still keep an eye on it. I took a walk around MY neigbourhood when I started this thread, and noted many which, even from the road, I would have liked to get a look at the undersides. Suble things, like deck railings which are not in line..makes me wonder why it is going out of line. Nobody is doing that, and the result is exactly what you said...collapse and injury are becoming more common. Here is an excellent link...they suggest that about 40 per cent of exposed decks in North America are unsafe. Way more than that have wonky railings. A simple inspection once every five years or so will fix that.

I built a lot of buildings for renaissance festivals over the years. I found that Copper PT was really durable. I hated the look, but it took paint well. A nice exterior latex seems to last for decades on the beams, but it flakes off the plywood in a season! And it lasts forever on the OSB. I took barns apart for awhile, which is why I have a sea land container full of beams. Want some? Some assembly required...

Yusef1-

Sure would like some, but can't take them no matter how much I want them. I can't afford a divorce lawyer! 2-car garage--her car on her side, lawn tractor, work bench, storage and welding equipment in mine. Back Yard-- 2 boats during the winter, a shed and fire wood pile- Basement---1/2 everybody else, 1/2 mine, not enough room here to mention the types of work benches, cabinets, equipment and supplies. Fortunately I have a sliding door from the basement to the back yard. Can "sneak" things in/out sometimes without many observers, especially after dark.

Good Luck, Old Salt

Ah now you've hit it, I want some, too. My side of the garage is already full, don't think I'm getting the other. I got a trailer full (4 ten footers) 8x12 oak beams from a barn in MD a couple of years ago. Hand hewn. I found out later they burned the ones I didn't take. Several friends of mine used them as interior beams, what a shame I didn't get them all.

Mine is a post and beam building, disassembled and put in the can. I could not leave it for the vultures when the Renaissance Faire shut down, but now I am not fit enough to re-erect it. But its in a sea container right now, along with a lot of extra stuff. Some of the beams are 35 feet long. 11 inch by 12 inch ash.

I was hoping to get a buck for it, but it seems that old timbers are a dime a dozen. Too bad.

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Fasteners Manufacturers

As has already been noted, a description of envisaged usage would be a help.

One of the problems with HDG coated fasteners is the propensity for the coating to be brittle and to chip off.
Thickness of the coating is also worth noting, HDG coatings are normally 100 to 125 microns thick whereas electroplated coatings are only 15 to 20 microns.

It will assist if you consult a galvanic series chart to make your choice and try to pick the best available fasteners or coatings with respect to other associated metals used on the project having due consideration for resultant corrosion of the surrounding metals should you introduce a fastener that is too far on the noble side of those other metals.

It is often stated that HDG fasteners are highly compatible with CCA pressure treated timbers, but a check of the series chart will indicated that the Zinc coating on a HDG fastener is far more anodic than both the Copper and the Chromium that is used in the treated timber, in ACQ treated timber, whilst Cr is not used, Cu is still a major component, normally up to 3 times the quantity as used in CCA and therefore even more damaging to metal fittings.

Due to this fact, the Zinc coating on the fastener will deplete to protect both the Cu and the Cr, which would be in contradiction to your requirements.

A further check of the series would show that ordinary Nickel plated fasteners would perform better as Ni falls very close to the other two metals and therefore has an almost identical electropotential resulting in minimal corrosion.

Unfortunately, these coatings can be easily damaged and so a Stainless steel fastener often becomes a better choice, but consideration has to be given to whether the passivation layer can be maintained in situ (this is especially important for the embedded section of a screw where oxygenation and therefore regeneration of the passive layer is limited), if not, then SS may corrode as rapidly as uncoated steel.

In Oz in from the coast, HDG will easily last 15 years (I have one section of roof gutter 50 years old, which I paint inside with aluminium paint every few years - it is a plumber's nightmare to make and replace) Plated bolts outside will last only 2 to 3 years, particularly in a damp situation eg unpainted hole in a post. Zincalum (electro)coating is popular for quad roof guttering and lasts as well as HDG, providing there is no standing water or crevices, and the folding process does not induce stress corrosion, particularly on the right-angle bend next to the fascia board (barge board).

If you talk to your fastener supplier they will give more specific advice. But, there are other types of coating that achieve a class 3 resistance ( that may be an Aust. standard ) the same as HDG zinc. The zinc is sacrificial and therefore by definition will disappear in time and of course the more there is (thicker coating), the longer that will take. Other types of coating are often patented and I don't know how they work.

There will be a company called ITW BUILDEX in your area contact them.

Jim

Good day.

There is good reference information @ finishing.com

Galvanic corrosion is an issue with disimilar metals also.