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Anonymous Poster #1

Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/18/2013 10:10 AM

Guys,

Is it possible to use cryogenic rocket engines for passenger Aircrafts?

Cheers

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#1

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/18/2013 10:41 AM

I believe that it is possible but far from practical. Any rocket engine system carries both fuel and oxidizer with it. Since an aircraft gets most of its actual lift by deflecting air downward, there is an oxygen source readily available in that air.

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Anonymous Poster #1
#3
In reply to #1

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/18/2013 10:51 AM

I heard that cryogenic engine has many stages which will fall down after it's mission.But here I am thinking of the possibility of single stage permanent cryogenic engine as an aircraft engine which can be refuelled after each fly. is it possible to control it's speed during take off ? Or will it suddenly thrown out of the space after take off?

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/18/2013 11:01 AM

Your words are not very coherent. I do not understand what you are trying to ask. If you are using a program to translate your ideas into English, it is not working.

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Anonymous Poster #1
#6
In reply to #4

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/18/2013 11:11 AM

You are right, I also felt the same. I will try my level best to change my English to Oxford level English However, I heard that US English doesnot need any kind of grammmmer. is it true?

Ok , What type of engine used in discovery space shuttle? normal aircraft engine or cryogenic engine? As you know,global oil reserves are depleting.so as an alternative cryogenic engine will be the choice for aircraft..I am novice in this area,but need some knowledge.

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/18/2013 11:31 AM

"What type of engine used in discovery space shuttle? normal aircraft engine or cryogenic engine?" This is called a red herring.

The shuttle engines do not operate when the ship is in aerodynamic flight.

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#31
In reply to #8

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/23/2013 9:39 AM

aerodynamic flight.

More like a semi controlled fall.

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#11
In reply to #6

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/18/2013 11:49 AM

The now defunct NASA space shuttle program used both solid and cryogenic rocket engines. Unlike the solid rockets, the cryogenic engines were throttle controlled. The cryogenic engines were reusable but not without a significant overhaul after every use. This is not a good attribute for commercial avionics. The cryogenic fuel and oxidizer tanks to achieve low Earth orbit were larger than the shuttle itself. Certainly less fuel and oxidizer would be needed for your idea.

As for Americans using proper grammar, I find that most Americans that do not want to look like idiotic fools do attempt to use proper grammar.

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#21
In reply to #11

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/19/2013 9:28 AM

I could see this catching on as a means to lower population (surplus) in federal prison system, by transporting prisoners this way, the odds of them actually making it to the next prison get lower with each launch. LOL, way to go, you are a complete genius.

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#15
In reply to #6

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/18/2013 9:08 PM

Which two of you gave Anonymous Poster's comment the 'off topic' rating, when he concluded with the pithy observation concerning his need to correct his utter lack of knowledge...

and then '-Cheer'.

.

Seems to be exactly on topic for this thread.

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#22
In reply to #15

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/19/2013 9:29 AM

Is there any way to rate the OP as off-topic in the first instance?

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/18/2013 11:02 AM

As an occasional airline passenger, I would be hesitant to fly in a bomb with wings.

Have you ever seen the catastrophic unscheduled thermal event accompanying a problem with a rocket engine?

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Anonymous Poster #1
#7
In reply to #5

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/18/2013 11:22 AM

I have heard about rescheduled launch of rockets due to leakage in rocket engine fuel system.It's a funny thing for commoners. There is no importance for rocket launch without a reschedule.

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#2

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/18/2013 10:41 AM

It's possible to make springs out of cement, so how about some application-specific context for the forum's following comments that the original poster and readers below might actually find useful?

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#9

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/18/2013 11:37 AM

the WW2 German ME 163 comes to mind...not so successful

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#13
In reply to #9

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/18/2013 3:59 PM

The ME 163 was a rocket plane but technically not one using any cryogenic fluids.

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#10

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/18/2013 11:46 AM

"As you know,global oil reserves are depleting.so as an alternative cryogenic engine will be the choice for aircraft..I am novice in this area,but need some knowledge."

You must also be a novice on the petroleum industry and the many sciences that supports it.

At the moment we are now sitting on more reserves than ever before in history.

Then on top of that add in the fact that present day chemical processing and engineering already has the capacity to turn most any sources of hydrogen like water and most any form of carbon like bio base or coal base stock into most any form of hydrocarbon fuel or plastic you need.

The only present limitation on the alternative hydrocarbon base stock source conversion is that the technology has not yet been scaled up to that of the petroleum industry scales of production.

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#12
In reply to #10

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/18/2013 12:07 PM
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#14

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/18/2013 5:14 PM

This may become feasible, when Hell freezes over.

What have you learned by searching the web??????

How to Search the Internet

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#17
In reply to #14

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/18/2013 11:36 PM

You've got this comment permanently on your clipboard haven't you Lyn. Don't blame you, seems a lot of people seem to confuse CR4 with the tourist information centre.

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#20
In reply to #17

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/19/2013 9:21 AM

Nope. I search for it when appropriate, which is usually every day.

Unlike many helpless, lazy posters who come here, I find searching for simple elementary answers takes very little effort, and my 8 year old grandkid can do it quite well.

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#16

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/18/2013 9:10 PM

Sure it is possible.

.

Is it a good idea? Some people believe it could be.

.

Those two things alone don't offer good support for the idea. There are numerous ideas that are both possible and have some smart devoted people....that still fail to qualify as 'good' or 'worthwhile' ideas in my estimation.

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#18

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/19/2013 4:12 AM

Dear Friend

Cryogenic Engine uses LIQUIFIED FUEL at temp. below -180 Deg.C to -232 Deg.C and refuelling WILL POSE A SERIOUS PROBLEM, and FUEL HANDLING ARRANGEMENT with in the Aircraft will pose serious difficulties.

DHAYANANDHAN.S

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#19

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/19/2013 8:45 AM

I would suggest your read up on the Bell X-1 (Glamorous Glennis that Chuck Yeager used to break the sound barrier) and the North American X-15 for examples of research into rocket powered aircraft.

The cost and safety issues regarding handling rocket fuels (both solid and liquid) pretty much exclude them from profitable atmospheric flight when compared to air breathing engines.

Hooker

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#23
In reply to #19

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/19/2013 9:31 AM

Mouth breathers or nose breathers? Just kidding.

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#24
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Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/19/2013 11:50 AM

And maybe a few other orifices one wouldn't believe that you can breathe thru in a pinch!!

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#25

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/19/2013 3:13 PM

Yes, It's been considered and it will be done when enough research is done on it.

This link will give you a starting place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_plane#Suborbital_spaceplanes

Don't let the commentators worry you. They need something to do!

I'd register, I think you will be given some better consideration, to some an anonymousl poster is a red flag for a newbie to pick on.

No one should be shamed for seeking knowledge.

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#26
In reply to #25

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/19/2013 3:22 PM

Yup. Don't listen to us.

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#27
In reply to #25

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/19/2013 6:19 PM

You believe the anonymous poster is not registered?

How have you gleaned this information about someone who is supposed to be anonymous?

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#28

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/19/2013 7:41 PM

Cryogenic rocket powered planes face stiff competition in safety, cost, and sustainability from the technologies listed below,

  • Biofuel airplanes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_biofuel

  • Electric airplanes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_airplane#Future_electric_aircraft

  • Hybrid airplanes

http://www.algaeindustrymagazine.com/hybrid-algaeelectric-airliner-plans-unveiled-in-paris/

  • Single Stage air-breathing rockets

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_Engines_Skylon

The obstacles with cryogenic rockets entail

  • Safety

http://www.ehow.com/about_5544556_dangers-liquid-oxygen-transportation.html

  • Cost and Economics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket#Costs_and_economics

Is it possible to overcome these challenges and compete with other technologies?

Perhaps it will eventually if the space industry first scales up a reliable, low cost, and sustainable supply chain (that is paid for without need for subsidy assistance).

And, the insurance industries have at least 20+ year acceptable safety record (due to the number of tragedies with previous rocket launches)

However, I would bet on catapult launched, biofuel (Opposed cylinder or Fuel Cell)/electric battery hybrid, and energy capturing arresting gear.

Perhaps even energy recovery products used in desalinization (Look up ERII) could be applied toward a closed catapult/arresting gear loop.

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#29
In reply to #28

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/20/2013 2:22 AM

You list as part of the 'stiff competition' facing cryogenic rocket powered planes as Reaction Engine's Skylon.

.

Skylon doesn't represent a technology competing against cryogenic rocket powered planes.....because it is a cryogenic rocket powered plane.

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#30
In reply to #29

Re: Cryogenic Engine for Aircrafts

09/20/2013 9:22 PM

You're right.
Thank you for catching that.

My focus was shifted to a reply later made by anonymous to Space Shuttle technology's use of cryogenic fuel. And as a result, I erroneously shifted failed to distinguish the difference in my opening line.

Again, I Appreciate the feedback for it helps to minimize my errors.

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