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Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/01/2013 4:09 PM

We are having some renovations done on the house and want to remove a partial wall that runs floor to ceiling and separates the kitchen from the living area. This is all actually one big room with a vaulted ceiling, as shown below (the wall in question has a red line around it):

I am wondering if this is a load bearing wall. Here are some closer photos:

This house is a bungalow - 1450 sq ft. You can see some insulation in the last picture on top of the header. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks ...

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#1

Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/01/2013 4:30 PM

Probably not. It looks like the roof is above the wall. However, I can't tell you it is not for sure and I really can't see what it is connected to above the ceiling.

If you have questions (which you do) I would call a building inspector or contractor and have them inspect it.

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#2

Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/01/2013 4:32 PM

the triple top plate is odd, its supporting something but you cant see above the plate to tell what it might be t transferring from the pic I'm looking at. good luck

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#10
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Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/01/2013 8:29 PM

Standard practice, I think, for a header on a wall with an additional section on top.

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#23
In reply to #10

Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/02/2013 9:15 AM

looks like a do it yourselfer special to me, I actually thought it was originally a storage space under a stair way that was enclosed at a later date, in any case....it does't look standard to me, but

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#3

Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/01/2013 5:14 PM

I agree with the others, have a licensed contractor inspect it to be sure.

If it's a load bearing wall, there ought be be support structure below it. If you have a basement you should be able to tell easily if this wall is supported from below by another wall or beam. From your first picture it looks rather un-impressive to be a load bearing wall. The triple header implies it might be, but the sparse number of studs supporting the header implies that it's not.

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#4

Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/01/2013 5:52 PM

Even if it isn't a load bearing wall, if you tear it out, whatever is sitting on top of it is going to walk itself into your kitchen.

I'm assuming that your roof is above that ceiling. What's up there?

If it's nothing but roof, you should be able to remove that wall, cut out some sheetrock, and add roof support above if necessary, just by putting in some cross pieces between the roof joists.

I'd cut out a chunk of sheetrock and do a visual inspection of what's above that wall, (before tearing it out). That will give you a better idea of what you're dealing with.

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#5

Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/01/2013 6:16 PM

The construction looks like they used standard 92 5/8" studs instead of longer 2x4s cut to length, because that might have saved a couple dollars in lumber costs.

I see no reason to use three headers above that though unless it served some structural function.

There, another unanimous maybe.

Moosie probably knows.

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#6

Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/01/2013 6:35 PM

Triple header broken by uprights...looks a little jack-leg from here, and probably not load bearing.

Definitely have an expert look at it.

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#7

Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/01/2013 7:17 PM

The line along the floor leads me to suspect that there was a load bearing wall there once. The triple diagonal looks like a jacking arrangement that might have been part of the earlier modification when the wall was removed. It doesn't look like a professional job. Have it professionally inspected.

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#20
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Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/02/2013 6:06 AM

What are you doing in Pasadena? Is that still just down the lane? I agree with you, it looks to me a previous renovator took out as much of the wall as was deemed safe. I would guess a stud wall was made on the floor, raised and joined to the other walls' top plate with a stick of 4x2 (the middle one ) and then a tapered truss put on top of that. Most of which has now been cut away. There may be a steel beam up there sitting on the remnant wall.

To the O.P., Post me your house and I will inspect it for you, OR, on second thoughts I will come to you, just send me the airfare.

Jim

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#8

Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/01/2013 8:16 PM

Would like to see the peak area internally. Is there a central pillar on that floor line ? For a vaulted ceiling there should be a substantial beam running through centre peak and the roof joists should be supported at their ends, on the beam and at the outside wall. Unless there is structure externally over that point then there would be no reason to think of it as load bearing. If this is the spot at which the front or rear half of the house was added on to an older building what you might be looking at is the remnant of the end wall of the old building. Does it have a partner wall across the other side of the building ? If so the two wall portions might support what was left of the old end wall, with a central pillar. Barring that, I expect that an inspector will tell you that it can be removed, but do not take my word on it, have it checked. Or you could double up on the inner studs and make a post out of it, from floor to the triple header, and remove the rest. Structural integrity should remain, and you have most of the effect of removing the wall entirely. Make sure that on the external wall some support remains for the other end of the header. Nice looking place, for what can be seen, still need to see more to have a definitive answer. Beyond that its guessing here. As others have posted, with this limited picture info, best we can do, and we will err on the side of caution saying consult a pro.

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#9

Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/01/2013 8:27 PM

Just wanted to thank every one for their insightful comments. I will definitely open it up and have someone who knows what they are doing take a look at it.

Thanks again!

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#19
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Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/02/2013 3:56 AM

...is the right answer.

No-one reading CR4 can see it.

No-one at CR4 will have any liability if it all goes wrong either.

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#11

Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/01/2013 9:07 PM

If you can get into the roof cavity you should be able to see if the roof is supported by a metal or wooden beam. If so the wall is probably just a feature.

But as others said, ask a house inspector to be sure!

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#12

Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/01/2013 9:19 PM

Do you have a basement or crawlspace? If so, please post pics of what's directly below this, that's usually a giveaway.

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/01/2013 9:23 PM

There is nothing below this in the full basement.

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/01/2013 9:37 PM

Then it's not load bearing.

Standard construction practices will have a joist or blocking under any walls that run parallel to the floor joists just to support the wall weight. Any bearing wall should have an absolute minimum of a double or triple beam underneath, and preferably would be continuously supported to the footings.

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#27
In reply to #14

Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/02/2013 6:23 PM

JNB, I agree, if it were load bearing, there would be a load bearing wall in the basement. You can get a professional opinion, which is always a good idea, but knowing that there is nothing in the basement below the wall should give you the confidence to move forward.

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#15
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Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/01/2013 9:48 PM

Out of curiosity; what part of the country?

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#17
In reply to #15

Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/01/2013 10:13 PM

Winnipeg, Canada

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#16

Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/01/2013 10:01 PM

If you have ask, you should call an architect or general contractor...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDIfgrl8_L4

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#18

Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/01/2013 11:20 PM

cwhobson-

As several others have mentioned, get a professional, such as an architect, an engineer of suitable specialty or a building inspector to look and give his professional opinion. The cost for them would be minimal compared to the results of a construction error.

A rule of thumb, but not always true, is that load bearing walls run perpendicular to the joists and non-load bearing walls run parallel to the joists. This would not hold true if there is proper blocking or bracing between the joists. In that case the wall could be load bearing since the weight is transferred from the parallel wall and across to the joists.

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#21

Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/02/2013 6:18 AM

You're probably going to end up having to tie in a section of roof rafter, to avoid having a soggy spot in your roof. That wall probably terminates into a piece of 2 X 4 that is layed flat under the roof...or maybe you'll get lucky, and it's sitting directly under a rafter.

Something the expert may not mention: When you patch the sheetrock, make sure to run the edges out to the center of two roof joists, for support. If you leave it free floating, with no support behind the sides, the tape joints will crack over time.

Also, if you plan on matching the existing popcorn texture, make sure you get the right size, and practice on a piece of cardboard; holding it up to the ceiling until you get it right. The spray can stuff works pretty well.

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#22

Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/02/2013 8:19 AM

This looks to be a single-story ranch style Modular home. Correct?

You're going to have to open up the ceiling cavity above the wall by removing some of the insulation to see what's going on up there.

My suspicion is that either shallow scissors-type wood trusses or roof rafters are spanning from the central interior wall to the exterior wall, meaning that they bear on those walls (trusses/rafters span perpendicular to either wall). If this can be verified as the case, then the wall in question is not a bearing wall and can be safely removed.

Like the others, if you're in doubt about the conditions in the roof I recommend that you hire a professional.

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#24

Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/02/2013 2:44 PM

I don't believe this would be load bearing because the trusses run parallel with the wall.

Also, I think the reason there is a triple top plate is because the bottom of the wall was built, set into place and the space from the top of that wall to the bottom of the trusses was filled in with a short stub wall built on the ground and set into place. This was probably a home owner build. A professional framer wouldn't have built it that way.

Just look through a atttc access hole to see if there were trusses used in the construction, which they almost certainly were, due to the lack of other walls. The wall was just put in as a separator from the kitchen to the rest of the house.

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#25
In reply to #24

Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/02/2013 2:49 PM
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#26
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Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/02/2013 2:58 PM

Parallel with the short wall and perpendicular to the ouside walls.

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#28
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Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/02/2013 7:13 PM

Oh! Okay...

Thought I had you for a minute.

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#29

Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/03/2013 1:17 AM

Just take the wall out and see if the house falls down.

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#30
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Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/03/2013 3:56 AM

That won't work. It could take years for that much damage to occur.

How about this: Remove the wall and listen for strange creaking noises. If you're not sure, get up on a ladder and hit those wooden beam thingys with a 20 lb sledge hammer. If you can't get to those beams, then use a chain saw to cut the ceiling stuff away.

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#31
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Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/03/2013 6:48 AM

Or send the "wife" up on the roof. :/

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#32
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Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/03/2013 7:14 AM

Better yet, send one's X-wife up on the roof! I can rent her out if you don't have one of those.....

Just saying.......

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#33

Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/19/2013 1:32 AM

Even if it was supposed to be load bearing (per inspections etc already recommended) it's unlikely it would support much as there are no noggins or bracing on that frame section. Gypsum bracing perhaps?

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#34

Re: Is This A Load-Bearing Wall

10/20/2013 2:18 PM

Chances are the wall is used not as load bearing ( no rafter/ roof load is above it), but as a buttress type. I have seen small walls built facing out on log cabins. But in platform framing I would think not. Steel re- inforcing not wood is a big help in these uses.

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