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Cutting and Welding a Pressure Vessel

10/17/2013 9:38 AM

Dear Friends,

We have to relocate a pressure vessel. Due to space constraints it has to be cutted in the cylindrical section. What sections of the ASME code Section VIII should I review for the procedures of cutting and welding (the material of the vessel is AISI 316-L).

Thanks in Advance.

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#1

Re: Cutting and Welding a Pressure Vessel

10/17/2013 9:49 AM

How is it intended to visual/radiograph/ultrasound and hydraulically test the vessel after relocation, and why is the Engineer/Surveyor for the facility's burst indemnity insurance company seemingly unable to answer these questions? Has the telephone call even been made, by the remotest of chance?

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#2

Re: Cutting and Welding a Pressure Vessel

10/17/2013 10:26 AM

Do you carry an ASME 'R' Stamp, if not. The 'R' Stamp can modify and repair ASME vessels and still give recertification.

I suggest you contact a company that does.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Cutting and Welding a Pressure Vessel

10/17/2013 10:41 AM

If I could, I'd give you multiple GA's. Also, hopefully OP has complete documentation on the vessel available.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Cutting and Welding a Pressure Vessel

10/17/2013 10:45 AM

Thanks,

I agree about the internal documentation.

If its an ASME vessel yes, and any ASME modifications with the 'R' stamp, there is documentation by the carriers of the stamp....... if they modified it on their own, that I can't answer. And the tank is invalided to be ASME certified because the paper trail for traceability is gone.

Traceability is the foundation of ASME.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Cutting and Welding a Pressure Vessel

10/17/2013 11:40 AM

...then the facility's burst indemnity insurance provider will have copies of the documentation so as to describe accurately what was inspected, tested and insured, and will be able to advise the original poster in rather more detail than is possible in this forum. This documentation is held also because, in the event of a site modification that was not witness tested and recorded, the insurer can walk away from any incident on the grounds that what went BANG was not what was insured. This stuff is the business of the profession of the Loss Adjuster - to adjust the insurance company's losses downwards, ideally towards zero.

It's still a good starting point - the missing telephone call to the insurer's Engineer/Surveyor, that is. The phone number will be on the periodic inspection reports for the vessel that are filed in the General Register at the facility for insurance indemnity purposes.

If the documentation is missing, then the serial number of the vessel will raise the correct response at the insurer's offices in reply to a telephone call.

If it doesn't or the vessel has not been subject to insurance examinations, then the original poster is simply "winging it" and the vessel is better off being scrapped and replaced with one that has been through the correct protocols with respect to design, assessment , testing and periodic re-inspection by the insurer's staff.

Who knows where this thread will lead eventually?

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Cutting and Welding a Pressure Vessel

10/17/2013 11:53 AM

Insurance????? ..... that's someone else responsibility,...... where's the aspirin

Also to trace it..

Serial Number like you said and/or National Board Number........

Who knows where this thread will lead eventually?

This may turn out to be one of those projects. ......I need the extra strength aspirin

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Cutting and Welding a Pressure Vessel

10/17/2013 11:58 AM
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#8

Re: Cutting and Welding a Pressure Vessel

10/17/2013 9:33 PM

ChemistUSX-

Before doing any cutting or welding there are other questions you should be asking:

How was the reactor originally placed where it is now? For example was the building built around it? Was it moved on rails, lifted by a fork lift and moved horizontally, etc. Was it lifted and lowered with a crane or other device?

Are there any obstructions in the way of doing any of the above?

Are there any walls or roofs that can be opened/removed/destroyed/rebuilt to facilitate the movement?

What is the weight of the reactor? Can flooring take the load?

Can the reactor be lifted and then lowered onto its side for movement?

If it is elevated, can it be lifted and the support legs or posts removed to lower it down? This is why many reactors have grating around them instead of a solid and continuous floor there.

Speaking from experience involving the movement of reactors and other large units, it is frequently cheaper and easier to move anything large intact to a new location. If there are height restraints, other equipment in the way that would be expensive to move, etc. it is less costly to use a crane to lift it out of a partially removed/replaced roof than many other methods. Also can you predict what damage might be done to it and the costs involved" Cutting and welding could cost as much as a new unit depending upon what has to be done. Even then you may still have problems with the welds if done by an approved welding shop. How will you easily align it for welding?

Do a thorough investigation, risk analysis and cost evaluation before doing anything. Think it out now and not when plans are falling apart!

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#9

Re: Cutting and Welding a Pressure Vessel

10/18/2013 12:02 AM

As others have implied, in most places it is illegal to cut and weld any pressure vessel, or even to weld attachments to it, without VERY special permits.

Don't modify the vessel; modify the building intended to house it!

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#10

Re: Cutting and Welding a Pressure Vessel

10/18/2013 12:41 AM

Refer to the Authorities before any cutting and moving is done and he would be the best one to advice you on the procedures of cutting and welding.

You dealing with a pressure vessel.

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#11

Re: Cutting and Welding a Pressure Vessel

10/18/2013 10:56 AM

Are you a welding engineer with metallurgical knowledge or a Metallurgical engineer with welding engineering knowledge? Have you ever worked with any of the sections of ASME B&PV code? If the answer is a big no,THEN CUT THE VESSEL WITH A CARBON STEEL HACKSAW BLADE AND WELD THE PRESSURE PART WITH E6010 ROOT DOWNHILL PROGRESSION AND E7018 FOR FILL AND CAP.Job is over get the signature from concerned authorities.

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Cutting and Welding a Pressure Vessel

10/18/2013 12:48 PM

Nonsense. The vessel is now not in accordance with the drawings that are held on it. If anything goes bang in the future, then it isn't insured, because it isn't to drawing.

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#13
In reply to #11

Re: Cutting and Welding a Pressure Vessel

10/18/2013 12:54 PM

I'm not a welding engineer or a metallurgical engineer at all, but I CAN tell you and OP that welding a 316L pressure vessel with E6010 and E7018 electrode is NOT the proper procedure under any circumstances. I don't know if you were trying to be funny or not.

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Cutting and Welding a Pressure Vessel

10/18/2013 12:58 PM

That is typical and is what is taught at for union boiler makers, so was told to me by the Project Manager of the union contractor I used............ I just had a union contractor doing this on a cooling line welding 304 SS piping to carbon steel piping.... but that will be another thread.

I had them cut and grind out all the welds and redo it using 309 Filler......

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Cutting and Welding a Pressure Vessel

10/18/2013 1:08 PM

Your example is dissimilar materials 304 to CS. In my experience, we used 308 or 309 for 304/316 to CS too, but I've read arguments that CS rod is acceptable. But I have not ever encountered, nor can I envision, a case where a CS weld with SS to SS materials would be acceptable. (OK, maybe if you had some surplus SS pipe that CS material of construction was all that was needed. Even there, you'd have to make sure that SS was acceptable.)

Surely union boiler makers are not taught to use CS electrode on SS to SS?

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Cutting and Welding a Pressure Vessel

10/18/2013 1:40 PM

No, you need the higher alloy (nickel) in the 309, this will mix with both material creating a weld similar to a 308.

Other wise there will be too much chromium and will be too brittle.

here's an excerpt and reference:

Welding Stainless Steel to Mild Steel

The usual choice for the filler when welding stainless to mild is 309L. 309 is over alloyed stainless steel (19/10) so when diluted by the mild steel gives a deposit approximately like 308L / 304L.

There are other fillers that give a crack free weld, 312, 308MoL, 307 and 310 will all work but these are less widely available than 309L.

Stainless Steel Filler Metal Choice

Select the metals to be welded from the purple bars to the top and right. The filler metal is in yellow where the two intersect.

References

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/stainless.htm

Other References

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/support/welding-how-to/Pages/filler-metal-detail.aspx

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: Cutting and Welding a Pressure Vessel

10/18/2013 4:26 PM

Yes, Under no circumstances would a CS rod be used to weld a SS pressure vessel. The rod would have to be SS or TIG welded with the same or better grade SS wire.

Since this is a pressure vessel, no mention if it is has heating/cooling jacket on it, and the OP wants it cut up and re-weld it He obviously doesn't have much knowledge of the subject. Re-welding, except a small repair plate, is extremely detrimental to the safety and life of the reactor and those around it.

In most cases it would be more expensive to cut, move and re-weld the reactor in the new location. If it is easy to relocate it in one piece, it is by far cheaper to take part or all of the building apart to move it. Industrial buildings are cheap compared to the cost of the proposed cut/move/weld. Likewise the cost of a new reactor will be less than the cost and move method proposed. Moving is how the big giant Processing corporations do it.

Thinking this whole thing out with Plans A, B, C, D, and E, and even more should be considered, will really let you know how feasible, unfeasible, and the cost. Talk is cheap compared to the costs of labor and potentially necessary materials for repairs.

Good Luck, Old Salt

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Anonymous Poster #2
#18

Re: Cutting and Welding a Pressure Vessel

10/19/2013 6:44 AM

Hi,

Could you provide the following details for a deep analysis?

Material thickness

Welding process/processes used to weld shell to head circumferential joint

Welding process/processes used to weld longitudinal shell joints (if long seam available)

Welding Consumables used (Electrode/Filler Wire/Fux etc)

Operating Temperature

Operating Pressure

Any extra specification requirements such as NACE,API etc

Thanks

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Anonymous Poster #3
#19

Re: Cutting and Welding a Pressure Vessel

10/19/2013 10:55 AM

(D) Where a major repair or alteration (including a re-rating) is necessary or desired on an existing boiler which bears the stamp of the appropriate "ASME" symbol or which is stamped with a state of Ohio boiler number, the repair or alteration shall comply with the requirements of "Part 3" of the "NBIC" as referenced in rule 4101:4-3-01 of the Administrative Code. The repair or alteration shall meet the requirements for the conditions under which it will be operated.

(1) In accordance with rule 4101:4-7-01 of the Administrative Code, unless the contractor or owner has obtained a "National Board "R" Certificate of Authorization", all contractors or owners shall apply for a permit from the division of industrial compliance to make proposed repairs and the repairs shall be approved by a special or general inspector. A repair report, executed and signed by the special or general inspector, shall be filed with the superintendent on forms provided.

(2) In accordance with the "NBIC," contractors or owners performing boiler alterations shall obtain a "National Board "R" Certificate of Authorization" prior to making any alterations. All alterations shall be authorized and approved by an authorized inspector.

"(E) Where a major repair or alteration (including a re-rating) is necessary or desired on an existing boiler or pressure vessel which does not bear the appropriate "ASME" symbol stamp or which is not stamped with a state of Ohio boiler number, the boiler or pressure vessel shall be evaluated by the superintendent and required to meet the applicable requirements of the "ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code" referenced in rule 4101:4-3-01 of the Administrative Code. Otherwise, the boiler or pressure vessel shall be retired from use."

(F) Repairs made to an existing "Ohio Special" boiler or pressure vessel shall be done in accordance with paragraph ( C), ( D)(1), or ( H)(1) of this rule, as applicable.

(G) Alterations, including re-ratings, made to an existing "Ohio Special" boiler or pressure vessel shall be approved, prior to the alteration, by the board of building standards in accordance with the special procedure outlined in rule 4101:4-5-01 of the Administrative Code for boilers and pressure vessels of special design

"(H) Where a major repair or alteration (including a re-rating) is necessary or desired on an existing pressure vessel which bears the stamp of the appropriate "ASME" symbol, the repair or alteration shall comply with the requirements of "Part 3" of the "NBIC" as referenced in rule 4101:4-3-01 of the Administrative Code. The repair or alteration shall meet the requirements for the conditions under which it will be operated."

(1) Unless the contractor or owner has obtained a "National Board "R" Certificate of Authorization", all contractors or owners shall notify the division of industrial compliance prior to making repairs to an existing pressure vessel and the repairs shall be approved by a special or general inspector. A repair report, executed and signed by the special or general inspector, shall be filed with the superintendent on forms provided.

(2) In accordance with the "NBIC", contractors or owners performing pressure vessel alterations shall obtain a "National Board "R" Certificate of Authorization" prior to making any alterations. All alterations shall be authorized and approved by an authorized inspector.

(I) Whenever repairs are made to fittings, safety devices, or appliances or it becomes necessary to replace them, the work shall comply with the requirements for new installations as prescribed in the applicable section of the "ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code" as referenced in rule 4101:4-3-01 of the Administrative Code.

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