The Imminent Demise of XP

Commodore 64?

Nope, the wife's got a trash 80 in the storeroom.

Damn, I knew I was already succumbing to Wisenheimer's disease. But that's my surfboard into the glorious future.

Wish I had held onto my Personal Electronic Transactor

VIC 20?

I'm glad you brought this up. I'll try to organize my thoughts somewhat and post later. You are using virtual XP on Windows 7, right? What version of AutoCAD?

Don't put too much effort into this on my account. The whole program is old. We used to have an expert on staff, Autocad drawings of every parcel of land in our square mile. All buildings, streets, marked parking stalls and street signs, (with the information on them) street, stop, pedestrian lights and curb and gutter. Huge files on AutoCad LT 2006.

The new boss doesn't care about all this information, so he won't want to spend the $5,000.00+ USD to upgrade the system.

Just wondering what people who really need to use it will do.

Thanks for your help.

I'm thinking of my own selfish interest . I have 3 xp's and 1 vista in the house. My thoughts are running from a total new install of XP and then saving a back-up image for the inevitable to Windows 7 so I can still have XP virtual mode to 8.1. I think several others on here are either having the same discussion or have made a change and can report their satisfaction or lack of. I have such issues as AutoCAD, PhotoShop, OpticPro A3U (11x17) flat-bed scanner (which I rarely use, but it sure is handy then), Acrobat 9 which came with ScanSnap S1500 document scanner (and support for the scanner itself), etc, etc. I'm taking inventory.

Draftsight will open and manipulate Acad files and save them in whatever format you want. is free and runs under win 7 like a champ.

That's affirmative. Why pay a license when you can get almost as good a service from an open source program like DraftSight. Functions nearly the same.

I had the same problem - old version of AutoCAD on my XP machine. I ended up buying AutoCAD 2014 LT for less than $1500.00 to install on my 64 bit W7 machine. You may find it for even less $ somewhere.

You could have gone to DraftSight and saved a buck or two.

Hi Lyn,

I wouldn't worry about losing the ability to work with the files, only about losing the data if you don't have a good backup. I work with AutoCAD 2012 in W7, and it will open any legacy dwg file. It won't necessarily save it all the way back to the same version but 2006LT shouldn't be a problem. Our standard is to save final versions as 2D AutoCAD 2010 but we can go as far as 2000.

Draftsight is a free AutoCAD 2D emulator I use at home that runs in XP and W7. It opens and saves dwg. Did I mention that it's free?

Thanks,

I may just keep using it till it dies. I use it less and less, now that there are several web sites out that let me look at real views, not necessarily always up to date.

I have everything backed up, but we have no IT on staff and I hate to much about too much with the old programs.

I have a DoubleCad XT-5 free version that I'm looking at right now. It seems to be ok, too.

The plan is:

1. Thoroughly sweep clean all reserves of appreciation for and tolerance of using Microsoft products out of my existence. I actually began this process, which involves switching to Windows 8, about a year ago. I can report it met that goal far far ahead of wildest projections.

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2. Switch to Linux.

It'll give me loads of work (and cost my customers loads), as many of the systems I've produced rely on DDE - which isn't supported by Win7 etc.

I hope it brings in enough to update my own OrCAD and RSLogix software, which needs XP and a USB dongle for the key; the dongles can't be seen fom a virtual XP machine under Win7.

I'm already running FactoryTalk View and RSLogix 5, 500, 5000 (10-19) on a Windows 7 - 64 bit machine. They all run fine. I had to install them twice, it fails on the first attempt, then W7 ask if you want to reinstall with recommended compatibility settings. More to do with the 64 bit part than Windows 7.

FactoryTalk View and RSLogix 5000 v17 both install without a hitch on a 32 bit W7 machine.

Is it dongle-protected*, tho'?

* Node-locked to a FLEXid key.

So far we haven't used dongles. For my plant I have node locked to hard drive ID for my laptop (both 5000 & FTView), and then a concurrent license for each on a raid 6 NAS box, to share between my engineering work stations. All others (5, 500) are still the old EVRSI file.

The dongle might not work with the Windows XP mode (Virtual machine), but it should work with the Windows 7 OS.

My problem is that I need to run RSlogix on three lap-tops and a desktop machine in the factory (2 of the laptops not on the network) and a desktop machine in my home office. It's also very handy to have it installed on customer's PCs (mostly off network) so I can just just turn up with the dongle and I'm good to go. Never need to run more than one at a time, so only one license needed.

Other problem is that the RSlogix500 I have doesn't run on anything after XP, and I don't see why I should fork out £1000+ for an upgrade.

If you have Tech Support, don't these upgrades come FOC.

Probably, but Tech Support costs an arm and a leg, and I've only used it once (in the distant past), and that was for an upgrade to support the (then new) 32 point digitaql I/O modules. If MS hadn't stopped XP, I wouldn't be in this position now - the RSlogix I currently have is completely adequate for my needs.

I'm a one-man band, and can't afford cash leakage into items like support I never use.

Yeah it makes you think why anybody would recommend using Allen Bradley PLC's.

You can use your dongle on a VM if you use Remote Desktop to access the VM rather than the console. Remote desktop allows you to redirect your local ports.

Worse yet, I'm dreading the day when Win 8 is forced on us

Its already gone, replaced by 8.1 which many state they dont want. There are rumors that 9 will be coming soon, but with the bad taste of 8 in consumers i doubt it.

I have questioned this to our IT department as everybody runs on XP but they just stick their head in the sand.

And what about when it finally wiggles its way into cars between drivers and the road, 'helping' to monitor and control?

"Braking to a complete stop in 4 minutes 32 seconds to update and restart. If you would like to begin blocking traffic now, press the horn".

"Are you sure you want to emergency brake?"

"Congratulations you have failed to notice and unclick 'add McDonald's burger bar to your dashboard'. Remember you have ordered a large size #1 combo every time you use the map feature."

"Would you like us to share incriminating data about your driving habits to all law enforcement in the area? Click here to accept or click here if you do not object".

I have one desktop which runs XP and always will, due to some applications that are dependent on it. It does not require any updates/maintenance on it (hasn't for years) so it will just run until it finally dies due to HW failures to expensive to fix.

I have considered getting a second HD for it and installing LINUX on the second drive just for giggles.

I also have a desktop that runs my wife's stuff that does require some SW maintenance/support so I plan to buy a brand new system for her at some point. That new system will have the latest and greatest MS OS already installed on it. I can then take my time transferring applications from the old machine to the new one and keep the old one as a backup without support.

I have an ooold Compaq laptop running XP that I've kept running with baling twine and duct tape for years. It's an experimental platform since it's so damn slow. I'll probably install LINUX on it.

This laptop that I'm typing on, runs Vista with no problems (other than one application I've never been able to get to run). I'll probably upgrade the OS someday to something else (TBD).

So if your XP platform is working, and you don't care if you can't get updates for it, just keep it going as long as you can afford to.

3 Words of Wisdom:

STAND...ALONE...OPERATION

Linux

I expect it will develop into the misery i had with windows 98 5 years ago complete confusion and i bought this rebuilt Windows XP that is now as you say outdated I don't even grasp the "cloud" language but what of it ???

Forget XP and AutoCAD. Buy yourself Win 7 and ProgeCAD.

You know the old saying "Fools go where Angels fear to tread!", well that is me today.....

My old Toshiba laptop died last year (WinXP of course!) and I bought a fairly new Toshiba with Win7 64, Quad processor. I re-installed the Win7 64 to give me a clean "own" version, though I had actually planned to put XP on it.....no need.

Now I do not use a CAD program anymore, but ALL of my old WinXP software just runs on Win7 with no problems at all.....(of course they slow down Win7 64 as it has to run these progs in 32 bit mode!)

I did not even have to tell Win7 to handle it as though it was XP.......THEY ALL JUST WORK!! Win7 64 is simply fantastic.

So I do feel that a proper test should be made to see if the program(s) can be run under Win7......no matter what the software supplier says.....it could prove to be a simple & effective solution...

Even if it does not work, at least you now KNOW that for certain!!!

Please be aware (if you aren't already) that Win8.x is the new "Vista" crap, it is most probably is a bad way to go, wait at least till Win9 is available and tested BEFORE paying for any upgrades....Win7 will keep you happy on most counts at least till that happens....

Anyone with important old hardware running say WinXP, should search around on ebay and similar to find all the hardware bits and pieces (checking that they work properly as well of course!) to be able to replace each bit of that PC bit by bit, or even an exact same PC with all the same bits in it AND get copies of all the drivers etc etc....checking each bit as you go.....mirror images of hard disks are also a good idea......

That way, if you do a good job, getting that old PC up and running again should be a quick and easy job.....and the parts being now old, it should not cost much either!!!!

Best of luck!!

This is the same experience I have had, with very few unimportant exceptions in gaming. I will say however that the way networking and multiple user interfacing is handled is quite different from the 2000/Xp days to Win7 and I won't even speculate on Win8 since I only use it on a tablet and a multimedia 17" laptop. A good one time service from a true IT professional should be able to handle the appropriate settings and allow the older stuff to run. However there are still the annoying driver issues on dedicated hardware systems that are no longer supported by the manufacturers in the new OS. It takes a real code master to rewrite a new and RELIABLE driver from my experience. Sometimes just going with new software is the answer and not always the over priced mega-featured stuff we are used to. There are many cad and design packages that are affordable and can be quite well featured. And you can always find a person, like myself, who will build an older comp for you and keep your xp running for a reasonably foreseeable future as long as you can still service your customers who may have upgraded their systems.

There are even several free CAD softwares around nowadays......

I totally agree with you. The cloud does seem to be another money making device.

As far as your AutoCAD situation, I have Windows 7 too. Our office has AutoCAD but it only runs on XP. What I use is DraftSight X64. It's by Dassault Systemes who makes SolidWorks. I primarily use SolidWorks but do have the need for AutoCAD at times. The version I use is free so it doesn't have all the bells and whistles as the paid version but for the amount that I need to use it it's perfect. The interface is very similar to AutoCAD so it's a snap to pick up.

Haven't used it since 2007. In fact I don't know of anyone one who still does. Most companies in the construction and mining business up date their systems every two to three years. I wish we started to use the cloud here our main frames are to limited.

Anything in a cloud is not very secure. Its OK for iTunes and games but not for anything you don't want anyone to copy. It will keep me out but not commercial espionage hackers. Developing companies have discovered it is far easier and faster to steal technology than to develop it.

One of the world's largest network security companies just moved all their corporate computers to a private network. The corporate users have another set of computers on a separate network to access the outside world such as surfing the web. If they go to that effort, non techie companies ought to pay attention.

The courts have ruled that if it is "in the cloud" or hosted by someone else, and not on a physical server under your physical control then you do not have a 4th amendment right to the data.

link please?

http://slashdot.org/topic/datacenter/nsa-win-leaves-security-of-cell-cloud-data-uncertain/

I appreciate this. Thank you.

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If I am reading this correctly, it suggests the judge is of the opinion that no fourth amendment protections can apply to any communication that is held (even momentarily) in a system that is not owned outright by the people communicating.

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This suggests the fourth amendment is functionally dead.

yes, that is the gist of the ruling. He feels that if you told ANYONE whom you were communicating with or what you said, then it is no longer a secret and your fourth mendment protections just went out the window. Other courts have disagreed, so there is a split in the circuits which means it probably will find it's way to the SCOTUS. Someday...

http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2013/10/02/228134269/your-digital-trail-does-the-fourth-amendment-protect-us

I didn't know that! One more good reason not to store anything on a cloud you need to keep secure.

The cloud is your worst nightmare about to happen.

Software vendors are beginning to put their operating systems in the cloud.

Yep, no more resident operating systems. You'll be forced to rent them.

I just bought Win 7 to be installed when I get some time.

Although AutoCad may not be the best, some persons have huge investements with saved objects.

There is really no reason why you can't keep XP on your AutoCad computer if it isn't connected to the internet. There is a theory that hackers have held off releasing any XP 0-day exploits until after the XP security team is gone. All of these exploits will never be addressed. They may concentrate on XP for a while so it may be the least secure of the operating systems. That is heavily used.

If you do intend to use XP for an extended time you might want to use WSUS to download all the patches for XP then archive them. You can download this free utility at http://download.wsusoffline.net/

The utility can be installed on any computer and the utility will allow you to save them as a DVD image file or to any other device. Although the patches may be available for years, they will not change after the end of the support. I find if I don't prepare for a problem it will occur and I will feel the consequences. I think there is a Dilbert law about that.

I've been wondering about the exit of XP support too. I see at least 3 choices:

1- Think back to Y2K; it was pretty much a dud after months of dire warnings. Will XP's end of support be similar? In other words keep using it while taking protective measures.

2- Make the switch to Win 7. This might be a pain and would put we XP users into unfamiliar territory during the learning curve.

3- Switch to Ubuntu. That is said to be a good operating system, but I still have wonderments. If I send something to a non-Ubuntu user, can he read it? And Vice versa if I receive something from a non-Ubuntu user?

The answer to that last question is: That depends - IF the files you produce in windows can be read by the other person's Linux based program, then 'Yes'. A simple Google search will definitively answer that question for any given file type. You need not worry about most things, as there are multiple free open source programs for most office, and even industrial applications.

My wife's laptop is running XP. But only because the $ 125 upgrade to VISTA proved to suck. So I retrograded it to XP. I will probably load Vista back on it before I give it to Habitat for Humanity (Vista can be upgraded to 7). Then I will by a new one for her, probably with Windows 8.xxx.

I have a Dell XPS running 8.1 After you get used to 8.1 and learn how to get to the old stuff from XP, it really does work well.

For anyone reading this Blog:-

Win9 is expected to be far better than Win8.x was for anyone thinking of upgrading in the next 12 months. No promises though from me personally!!! I will be staying on Win7, at least for the moment!!

I tested Ubuntu some months ago, it gave me an excellent impression of both flexibility and performance. Definitely a possibility....

Win9 cannot be worse than Win8.x or Vista was to my mind......

But if you personally are happy with either, great, MS did something right for you!!! Be happy!

"....But if you personally are happy with either..."

.

Who? Where? Someone is personally happy with Win 8? Please introduce me, I've never met a unicorn.

I agree with you, but see post #47......

If he is happy, I am happy for him, he is probably the only happy Win8.1 customer that MS has!!!

I'm currently in the midst of "mover_over_grading", (it's not up), to Win 7 from XP on all testing and calibration systems. It's painful. Many older systems that have worked well for over 10 years and make my company a handsome profit, contain older hardware that does not have drivers compatible with Win 7 32 or 64 bit.

The 32 bit programs that do work have to be in the Programs(x86) directory on the 64 bit machines. Some, not all, have to be specifically set to run in Win XP mode. Others have to run as administrator. Trying to document all this so the next generation of test engineers can at the least stand a chance to restore a system that expels that magic smoke is a nightmare.

I get to do this while maintaining my level of productivity on new product development!

Yes, and Bill Gates is making $15.5 million dollars every day, thanks to all of us.

Do you think he cares about your difficulties?

I will continue to use XP. All my apps are happy, I have a clone, and spare hardware. My tower is a quad athlon got lots of memory. scads of drive space. I see 0 reason to update to anything, and happy in stasis. Please dont tell the hackers I'm out here. I'm also walking away from McAfee; its too invasive demanding too much system resources. My redundant hardware and software backups should keep me well into the time when I no longer care to use a computer to compute, but watch the movies I have stored in AVI. other than that, computers are not as good as golf, and other things more important in life. My workplace can follow the upgrade path as far as they need to; and as long as I am with them, I will be in touch with current tech, but not slave to it.

( I know some will say these could be famous last words; but that will be MY problem if so )

XP being past the due date does not mean it is or will be dead.

Maybe Ubuntu or Linux if I really need to change.

To each their own; that's what I'M expecting to do after April......

Kaspersky has again won the 1st place in a comparison test from the best computer magazine in Germany, AGAIN!!! It has consistently been in first or second place, time after time after time......Its also cheap to buy for 3 PCs on ebay I find.....

I can also personally recommend it, after using Norton 3 years ago - awful , then Kaspersky till my new laptop a few months ago which came with MacAfee installed - also awful and it also screwed up my Win7 setup. The only good thing it was a free test - also never again.

Then back to Kaspersky = Happy again.

I also tested Ubuntu last year for a week or two, just for fun, also really good and definitely not to be ignored. Loads of free/cheap software to download, with a brilliant software already installed, to find each and every piece that your fancy desires and to download it for you!!!

Andy-

Thank You very much for the reviews, and pointers. Information is everything these days, lol

LIT

I am pleased to have been some help.

But basically thats what most reasonable CR4 people do.....help each other.

Imagine that - a site designed so people can help / inform each other, and actually attaining that goal more often than not. Thanks again.