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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3

DM Plant Inefficiency

03/12/2014 3:03 AM

Hi,

We have a DI plant from Al Extrusion industry.

DI plant Scheme

collection tank --> pump--> multimedia filter --> 2 x ( cartridge filter --> cation --> Anioin) in parellel

  • No of stream: 2
  • Vessel Size: 21" x 60 "
  • Control Valve: SIATA Aqua Ionic
  • Cation: Jacobi, KW8 200 L
  • Anion : Jacobi A4 200 L
  • Pump Capacity: 12 - 42 m3/hr @ 57- 44 m head

Inlet water conductivity is 168 micro siemens @ 6.8 pH ( RO water+ rinse water from Al powder coating)

Present condition ( both the stream is operated individually result is almost the same)

  • 1C: Back wash : 5 mins
  • 2C: HCL ( 32% ): 30 mins
  • 3C: Slow Rinse: 20 Mins
  • 4C: Fast Rinse: 60 Mins
  • 5C: Back wash : 5 mins
  • 6C: NaOH ( 48% ): 30 mins
  • 7C: Slow Rinse: 20 Mins
  • 8C: Fast Rinse: 60 Mins


Note:

  • 4c: pH of the Rinse water
    • time left 60 mins = 1.3
    • time left 02 mins = 3.8
  • 8c: pH of the Rinse water
    • time left 60 mins = 12.1
    • time left 02 mins = 10.8


Service mode:

  • 174 micro Siemens @ 10.9 pH ( after one hour from regeneration)
  • 60 micro Siemens @ 9.9 pH ( after six hour from regeneration)
  • Plant was not operated for 12 hours and result after that was 250 micro Siemens @ 10.2 pH
  • 80 Micro siemens @ 9.8 pH (after 11 hours of operation)
  • 235 Micro siemens @ pH 3.8 (after 13 hours of operation)


My Suspects:

1. Concentration of Acid and base is too high

2. Flow is too high.

3. anything to do with the valve program timing

Looking for your valuable feedback on the same. kindly let me know if you need any further inputs

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Guru
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#1

Re: DM Plant ineffecien

03/12/2014 3:31 AM

A1) The concentration of acid and alkali used to regenerate the ions is dependent on the resins used. Discuss the matter with the resin supplier.

A2) The flowrate should be compatible with one vessel on line at any time with one in regen. Refer to the original process design calculations for the basis of the plant sizing. If the flowrate is too high, reduce it so that it isn't. One of the risks of a flowrate being too high is the vessel contents leaving via the backwash outlet valve; this valve should have a mechanical stop on it adjusted to limit the backwash flowrate.

A3) Refer to the original process design calculations and the commissioning records for step timing. There should be a valve sequence chart that gives the expected times for the process steps. If the times are too long, reduce them.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: DM Plant ineffecien

03/12/2014 4:06 AM

Thank You PW SLack, i appreciate your prompt reply, I have already send mail to resin supplier Jacobi awaiting fro thier response.

Thank you

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Guru
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#3
In reply to #2

Re: DM Plant ineffecien

03/12/2014 4:22 AM

Well, a telephone call is much quicker, interactive, and cannot be ignored; that is why the word <...discuss...> was used. Try that instead.

Now, what about the design documentation and the commissioning documentation? Where is that?

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: DM Plant ineffecien

03/12/2014 5:38 AM

<rant>

The recent explosion of personal telephony across the globe seems to have gone hand-in-hand with a profound reluctance to actually use the damn things for the purpose for which they have been designed.

</rant>

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: DM Plant ineffecien

03/12/2014 1:50 PM

Less quasi-personal contact if they can induce total strangers to do the work for them.

They don't have to identify themselves, either.

We seem to have become a tutoring/reference service, instead of a place for engineers to have technical discussions.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: DM Plant ineffecien

03/12/2014 1:59 PM

Interesting thinking.

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#7

Re: DM Plant Inefficiency

03/15/2014 12:58 PM

Having seen the OP, and the existing responses to this point, here is my reply:

Al extrusion industry involves Aluminum. The rinse water from Al powder coating is going back with RO water blend, but this is being fed to the cation vessel first, then anion vessel. You need to go back and analyze the Al powder coating rinsate water as collected for several things: (1) Aluminum content of any kind, metal or ion, (2) residual organic solvent, or organic acids, or organic acid salts from the coating. Whatever is in the water has fouled/killed your resin. The Aluminum (if metal) gets stuck on resin (think filter), then the acid converts this to ions, which bind almost irreversibly to the cation resin, although some bleed may occur during service at low levels. So the cation resin is fouled. Next this low level bleed of aluminum ion contacts the anion resin and/or organic acids (if present), and essentially bind to active sites on the anion resin. Organic acids are almost 100% irreversible by regeneration - this requires a recovery technique and may not work. So the anion resin is fouled. High sodium leakage from the cation vessel will result in high conductivity product exiting from the anion vessel, and high chloride leakage from anion resin will also contribute to this. You should reconsider how you are dealing with Al powder coating rinsate - treat it separately, and specifically, based on analysis results.

One more thing: chlorine or other active halogen or oxidizer in the water will kill the anion resin from its most active state to something less desirable.

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: DM Plant Inefficiency

03/17/2014 3:43 PM

Hi Mr. James,

I really appreciate your response to the tread.

I would like to highlight that we have 2 other unit where in the the entire process is very similar, right from the chemicals used to the raw material supplier, and in these two unit the DI plant is giving desired result,

I consulted the resin supplier and according to them the the acid and cautic concentration used is too high, which according to them should be 4 % each instead of 32 % and 48%. we will be carrying out regenration with 4 %, and will see, they also suspect the flow rate.

Regards.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: DM Plant Inefficiency

03/17/2014 4:13 PM

If that is what you actually had taking place, then yes, that would be one of the major issues. I still have my concerns about the longevity of media in your vessels based on long-term fouling issues I previously cited.

You might do well to look at filtration of the recovered water down to really low particle size. Without being there, I am just flying blind, of course.

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#8

Re: DM Plant Inefficiency

03/17/2014 10:47 AM

...which means that the process unit operations selected for this stream are inappropriate. Shut the plant off and consult an experienced water treatment process specialist.

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