Job Applications. What Goes On Behind the Scenes?

I never heard of medical records being required for a job application.....but I certainly would have asked for a good reason before handing them over....not even sure that's legal....

Aha! seems it's not...

http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/practices/inquiries_medical.cfm

I never heard of medical records being required for a job application.....

Dick Cheney had 5 heart attacks, yet he was still VP.

Because there are a lot of losers out there and a lot of employers that can afford to be picky.

Funny thing is it's still hard to find good help, even with so many people out of work.

I've had the same job for 12 years so I don't have a clue what it's like to look for work, and don't even plan to when I quit this one. (I'm 67)

SE's right.

HIPAA Privacy Rule - What Employers Need to Know

basically Americans personal rights have been under attack for years(don't get Kram started). many employers are playing a game where they hold all the cards. if you read the fine print in the box you sign at the bottom of an application you're agreeing to this in order for them to look at your application, refuse to sign and you never go to the next step. are you loving lawyers yet? the best part if you read it close is that you're agreeing to have them pull all your records at anytime, including years later and if they find anything its cause for firing you. so you might have a credit issue 7 years after you start with them that will send up a flag when HR is told to routinely recheck a person or dept.you may never drive for them or their vehicle but your driving record could bury your career in the future due to this clause. if you're valuable they never exercise this but it always hangs over you.you really have no rights or seniority anymore.

I'm not so concerned about the medical background check. I can see its validity for commercial truck and heavy equipment operating.

I know of too many older guys that keep renewing their driver's licences without having their medical records updated to show that they have diabetes or other health issues which if included on their licence records would put them on restricted driving status preventing them from being able to keep their jobs.

From that I can see the need to verify my drivers licence and related stuff but what exactly do they need to check my credit rating for?

I am not really against them doing more in depth background checks but up until now I never saw much of any of this now it appears to be standard issue.

You haven't said which jobs/companies you applied for/with.

Hauling haz mat might be different than pumping gas.

Smaller local companies.

One is a farm implement dealer that needs a fuel truck driver. Easy work and good hours.

The others are gravel and dirt work companies looking for equipment operators and truck drivers.

I am not really all that concerned about going back to work being I make more than enough from home to cover my fair share of the bills and then some.

Most of the looking is just to get my wife off my butt.

Well then, just keep looking.

Do you think she will be off your butt till you get job?. She will be on your butt till you are alive..

Just about everybody is running credit checks now.

It tells them a lot about the character/life of the person they might hire.

I could get into the corporate cronyism that exists in Washington DC, and how our elected politicians will continue to sell us out, and make it possible for more and more data to be collected about us, by potential employers, doctors, etc...but I won't.

"Just about everybody is running credit checks now.

It tells them a lot about the character/life of the person they might hire."

What good does that do?

I can name as many people who have marginal credit ratings who are upstanding people that would be an asset to any company as I can name ones who are outright liars and scum with outstanding credit ratings that would sell out their coworkers and company in a heartbeat to serve themselves.

My credit rating is marginal at best but its not because I am a terrible and irresponsible person. I have a weak rating because for almost all of my adult life I have paid off loans early and never had credit cards. The only real bad mark I have on my rating is from our state bank due to their student loan department who can't keep their numbers straight or keep track of who I am for one month to the next continually screwing up my account for years.

On my last credit review I had done at my local bank it showed I was grossly delinquent on my student loans yet in my personal paperwork I submitted I have the payment in full letter from the pinheads at the bank saying that my loan I am delinquent on is paid off 100% in full and has been for some time. In fact the date it shows it was paid off matches the last month that the report shows I made the last payment.

The guy doing my credit reviewed looked at the paperwork I had that proved I had the loan paid off just smiled and said he has seen that far too often with my state bank and student loans, in fact two of his coworkers have gone through it personally and they ar bankers who write loans themselves, so he just blew it off.

Still I don't find it right that a person who is financially responsible should get a marginal rating because of it let a loan be denied a job.

I hear you but it doesn't change the fact that for years now its an employers market, they'll cherry pick endlessly because........THEY CAN

I'm not saying it's right, but it's the norm.

Personally, I've always hired people based on their ability to do the job, along with showing up every day.

With unemployment still high and the economy in the crapper, employers can pretty much get away with anything they want, and hire the cream of the crop.

The best thing you can do, is to just be honest about your credit rating, (or anything else), explain things, and hope for the best.

The people that base their hires on credit scores, get what they deserve. In your line of work, it shouldn't be considered a big deal.

I was about 34 before I started building credit; before that, I just paid for everything up front, so my credit score was zero.

That's why they call it a CREDIT report.

You're a throwback to the days when people paid their bills with cash.

My father was that way. You don't need it if you can't pay for it.

You'll just have to explain your "pay-as-you-go" philosophy and hope they buy it.

Awhh, Life in here in these United Sates of America .... Mom's apple pie and living the American dream and all the freedom we have had. You've got to love it, right? WRONG!

good thing people wanted "CHANGE"

Hey, Buddy. Got any spare change???

Don't you mean:

Hey Buddy, can you spare a dime?

Damn, in today's economy, nobody has a dime to spare So, with the trend of downsizing, you have to ask for change, Pennies or maybe a Nickle if you can spare?

A credit check tells them if you're reliable. They expect that if the applicant is in debt he/she may only show up for work until the bills are paid then take a few days off or worse if you are in debt you may be a theft threat. you may steal from them or their clients/customers to pay your debts or for a habit (this also is reason for a criminal history). Many companies also check your social media sites to determine the type of person you really are. And if you don't have a facebook page or some other recognized social media page you won't ever get an interview. They are only concerned about their public image and bottom line. If you're a partier or drinker as seen through pictures or posts online you can forget about it. And EVERY potential employer does a GOOGLE and GOOGLE IMAGE check on any applicant.

With that said, good luck with the hunt!

In the 60's we had a cherry orchard, and one year we could not get our Mexican migrant worker for the harvest. So in a pinch we went to the reservation, they had high unemployment as well as alcohol problems, as so as they got there pay checks on Friday, we'd be lucky to see them on Tuesday........ If the sheriff didn't call us to break up the knife fights the Indians were having in the taverns.

Doesn't the DOT required you take a physical medical exam once a year to drive a commercial vehicle.

So if your driver licence is up to date what more do they need?

As far as the back ground checks 9-11 change that for allot of truck driving jobs. We don't want terrorist driving petrol trucks into malls and blowing them up do we?

Fredski in #3 pretty well had it nailed. As peoples "rights" are challenged, they get their backs up and react accordingly (lawyers again). I would bet that most of the applications are designed by lawyers (or at least legal types) to make sure that prospective employers do not get into any legal actions by having the prospective employee sign a release for anything that can be considered an infringement on "rights".

Any employer has to be aware of what and what not can be asked on an application, face it, its just C.Y.A.. Face it, these days, we all pretty much have to do that. The "good old days" are long gone.

One thing that everyone has to be reminded of,,,, with "rights" also comes "responsibilities". It seems that very few remember that this these days.

Curiosity killed a Catbert. (Wish.)

Embezzlement is running a muck, so they use this as an excuse to see if your an up-right person with a 960 or above credit score. Seems you can't trust anybody anymore, just ask NSA or our Homeland Security!! What a JOKE, .... too bad it wasn't funny tho!

960?

Really?

That's about as realistic as all the hoops they want you jump through to work for them.

It's an employer's market, so their calling the shots. If they were forced to bring all the jobs back that were farmed out overseas, things would be different, IMHO

With the negative events (9/11, Embassy attacks, Sandy Hook School, Columbine, kidnappings, Madoff, mass murderers, Brinks robbery, etc.) many groups (FBI, NSA, DEA, ATF, NCIS, USPS, Customs, EPA, etc.) and professions/followers (psychologists, physiologists, biochemists, psychiatrist, engineers, human resources, mentalists, etc.) think they can profile the best candidates for each job opening in the world. How many of us have taken a several hour test to determine if we are suited for a particular job?

Each one of these groups has a lobbyist that "markets" their group and pushes for what they are paid to do. They sell their product to the employer and we are the ones who are expected to take it. Doesn't matter much about if the test is applicable to the job, the group just wants to sell the tests. The employer wants to push the decision process to someone/something else so that they can't be personally or corporately liable if something should happen negatively. Combine all this with Human Resources (the highest paid liars) administering the tests and you have a situation where it is almost impossible to get hired. Some group out there doesn't think you are suited for the job no matter how much experience or excellent references you have.

Take all these and multiply them exponentially and you have your chances of getting hired, next to nil! Another reason you won't get the job is because the person doing the hiring is going to hire his inexperienced nephew no matter how good you are. Maybe if the hiring person gets in trouble for the bad performance of the nephew, over time you may get another interview. Don't forget though that he also has two brother-in-laws that are collecting unemployment and their wives want them to get off their duffs and bring home more money than what unemployment does.

For success, tell your weak minded brother-in-law that he is going to hire you or else his wife, your sister, will make life rough for him!

Good Luck, Old Salt

to your point, its not about how qualified you are or if you'd be an asset, its become how pure you are and how much of an insulated life you'd lead

I think that they put you through all this BS in order to find out if you can handle all the BS that you will have to deal with working for them. From what I know about from your posts, I don't think that you want to work for business like that.

"I don't think that you want to work for business like that."

I don't want to work for any business! I have fully accepted and embraced my independance and laziness.

Actually now that the weather has warmed up today I loaded another two or so tons of scrap metal I had and cleaned up the yard some more. I have about one more ton to put on tomorrow before I haul it to town.

Best guess I have about 15 - 18 tons to go and local prices are running $100 - $125 a ton so I really have very little want to go to work anywhere else.

As far as I am concerned its good money, good exercise and things look better around here for me having done it. It's the wife who doesn't seem to see things that way. To her I should be busting my butt for 10 - 12 hours day working some place else in order to make the same average take home I am doing now on 5 - 7 hours of basic home clean up work.

Sloth Brother!!

You are living the dream mate.

Keep at it.

I too am self employed. I work on my own projects that then bring in the wonga instead of working for someone and then paying someone else to do what I can just do myself. I do employ subbies for the the grunt work.

Cash flow can be an issue at times but every now and then a third party needs me to wave a magic wand over their problems and I get paid for that. Cash is good to have mate.

I do the scrap thing too. You just need space to store all the offcuts and salvaged shiite from the paying jobs until you have enough to make the trip to the scrap merchant worth the diesel to get there and back.

Keep looking for work......enjoy the profiling. You might find out something about yourself in the process.

"It's the wife who doesn't seem to see things that way. To her I should be busting my butt for 10 - 12 hours day working some place else in order to make the same average take home I am doing now on 5 - 7 hours of basic home clean up work."

I was going to comment about showing your wife the numbers to prove logically that you are doing better with what your doing now than with a 'salariman' job, bit I believe we had a similar conversation before, about your wife freaking out when you brought in a soldering iron to fix the laptop power supply that she broke.

Sir, you have my utmost sympathy for having to put up with such a woman, and you have my respect for having the patience to put up with her. A lesser man would have been driven shrieking mad by such a wife, I'm talking full Arkham Asylum candidacy, with the other 'patients' (including the green haired Clown Prince) not wanting to be around 'the loonie.'

She's not so bad! (I've had worse.)

A lot of it comes down to her being the overly competitive and jealous type.

In her mind if I am home I am doing nothing and the what and how I make money is irrelevant. When I am at a job she feels she should be competing with me to have a better job or something like that.

Personally I just blow it off either way being I have lived most of my adult life being more self employed than normally employed and to be honest compared to most people my age I have far less debt and a over all better life style. Granted I don't don't live ina $600K house and have $200K in brand new vehicles sitting in my paved driveway but then I also don't have a 3/4 of a million dollar debt on my head either.

So yes most of the job hunting is not really being taken all that serious. Some extra and more stable income would be nice but it's not absolute necessity yet.

You have a paved driveway?...... wow..... we feel honored that you come and talk to us serfs......

I have a crushed asphalt loop driveway in front of the old house and a massive mud bog in front of my shop where all the construction for the new house is.

For the main driveway it would have been all crushed asphalt as well but the loony neighbor got his crap material in first.

If you care to recall the drama, http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/86002

What typically goes on behind the scenes now when reviewing job applications for a new person or to replace someone else?

There do more thorough background checks,

1. actually follow up on your references......
2. Verify Employment history
3. Credit Checks.

I have found that some job applicants go farther than just embellishment on their past performances on their application and interviews. I feel that this is just due to part of the generation that they was brought up with immediate gratification....

Get used to it! This will not go away.

They check references to make sure you didn't lie about them

They check your health because they have to pay for your insurance and soon or possibly now someone will have to pay more to insure the unhealthy. My wife has been told her insurance will change. If you smoke cigarettes, are over weight, etc you will pay more because you are high risk.

They check credit so they can cheaply weed out some problem employees. Bad credit is due to bad behavior. No credit is something else. That is very unlikely to go against you as long as they are sure you are not using an alias. No credit means you are either careful or using an alias.

If you might need to work as a government contractor you will need to pass the first and last.

Employers are more careful to spend a few $s to protect themselves from mistakes. They spend far less on this than the rest of the hiring process. I think industry has wised up. My brother rents out part of his house. I tell him he is an idiot for not spending $50 for a credit check before renting an his apartment. He has been stiffed a few grand for not doing that. He had checked with his last landlord but the renter has learned to stiff every other landlord.

Get used to it! This will not go away.

You mean job searching?.........

I felt that bad credit score uses a big brush............... And more times the case is what you said........ but its the only system we have.....

But it still has it's place..........when you work in an area that requires security clearance, if they find you in fiscal duress, you will not be cleared........... or should not be cleared.

In cases where security clearances are at stake, every little 'hook' that could be used to pull you into spilling secrets counts against you. That makes sense, you want 'secret keepers' who can actually KEEP the secrets they're entrusted with. Things that would be simply embarrassing to 'normal people,' such as, say, a guy preferring to wear a silk slip under his suit, or an adult being a 'squealing fangirl' of a modern children's show (we're not talking about nostalgia for a show they watch as a child, but liking a kid's show that didn't exist until they were an adult), would be the kiss of death for a security clearance. You cannot trust secret information to someone who is easily blackmailed.

But in a McJob where the biggest secret is the recipe for Secret Sauce (which isn't even known at the restaurant level, the sauce gets shipped in premixed in 55-gallon drums) Credit rating doesn't matter.

I used to run credit checks on potential tenants when I owned rental property. It would tell me if the applicant had a history of evictions, debt, an lawsuits. It turns out that it is not a bad idea to run credit checks on general contractors and a lot of other people you are about to give keys to for some task.

Frequently, it will indicate how easily you may be influenced to do something stupid and whether or not you learn from your mistakes. I got to the point that I would visit the home of an applicant to see how they lived. Landlords get burned frequently. Why should employers be any different?

I invoke Godwin's Law.

We can all go home now.

Your statement "They check credit so they can cheaply weed out some problem employees" isn't very successful many times in reality. Why are there so many embezzlers who have had financial and credit checks that come back with wonderful results? Most of these "thieves" have passed the credit/financial checks and get hired only to start taking other's for themselves?

Yesterday, during my day I was told or read of ten (10) different people who were found to have embezzled/stole/fraud from other people or organizations. They ranges from a multi-million dollar Ponzi scheme with financial investment to a person who worked at a school, where my wife teaches, who stole $350 from a PTO fund. I know that at least six of these people passed a credit/financial check.

How valid is a credit/financial check? Why do so many people pass them when they have a bad history of handling money? Who can say that a person who has had some bad financial "breaks" in the past can't be trusted? What do the checks really indicate? Are they really just an employer's CYA action? Is it just something that an employer can blame if someone turns out bad?

I once went to a bank that my paycheck was written on to cash it. Gave two ID's, a picture driver's license and a credit card, as told I must do. Everything good until several months later when I found in excess of $7,000 charged to the account of that credit card. Credit status went bad while I contested the charges. Took me years to get it back to where it should have been all along. Bank teller had memorized my card number and went on a Caribbean vacation. Although the bank had checked her references, credit check, driving history, health check, and several others they eventually found she had done this same thing with two other previous employers. What good are these checks and what purpose do they serve?

Now I give two picture ID's and positively no credit cards when asked. If anyone won't accept a picture as ID instead of a credit card they are too obstinate for me to do business with.

Good Luck, Old Salt

That reminds me, I think I need to 'lose' my bank card again.

I do this every few years; report the card 'lost,' have that card number canceled and a new card issued. New card issue, new numbers, anyone who memorized my old number is now SOL if they try to use it. It's not exactly LifeLock(tm), but it helps to get rid of 90-95% of the potential identity thieves, and the remaining 5-10% (The 'big sharks,' are looking for easy marks they can bleed for a while, and I feel safe enough from them due to the 'herd defense,' Not many of them, a plethora of targets, the odds of me getting hit by them is on par with my getting hit with lightning.

What ever makes you 'feel' secure........... because if it's going to happen, it'll happen......... probably overnight.

Another thing I do, is try to keep my credit card limit at $5000.

It can be a tough one, because with my credit score, they are always are trying to creep it upward.

We also have Lifelock.

I also tend to reserve using actual credit cards to specific occasions, such as reserving a hotel room (something I do rarely, and at specific, known times) as using a check card causes the hotel to charge your card up front for the full cost plus 'expected amenities,' and return the 'unused' portion to your bank account after you check out. Six months to a year after you check out.

The only 'actual debt' I have (as opposed to re-occurring payments, such as the electric bill) is a single mortgage on the house, and the financing on my car. They can creep up my account balance all they want, my credit cards spend most of their time holding down the bottom of -an undisclosed location. (Like I'd let that info slip out, mah momma didn't raise no stupid kids that lived.)

I like to keep my finances simple, so I only need to check one statement a month for irregularities, my bank statement (the statements on the credit cards would show irregularities if they show ANY activity) It may not by the most extravagant way to live, but I get by.

I got burned by my first wife, so I lived in a cash world for years...which is why I had no credit.

Now I've got a great wife of 15 years, we put everything we can on one card, pay it off every month, and watch the mileage points add up.

The credit card company hasn't made a dime from us.

It took me a long time to even feel comfortable having a bank and checking account. Now I just worry about the government either stealing it, or making it worthless with their damned QE that they refuse to stop doing.

How about a show of hands of those's who have had erroneous errors on their credit reports? And who had to have an Act of Congress to correct it? (They act about as fast as Congress to correct anything (∞ slow)) I thank my maker I didn't get caught up in the 'Target' credit card skimming during Christmas last year!

My wife likes Target. Just got a new card a couple of weeks ago.

Personally, I'm good with Walmart for just about everything.

It's getting time to go buy some flannel shirts for 5 bucks apiece. Most all of my clothes come off the clearance rack at the end of a season.

Ha,.......

I needed new work shirts, so I would be wearing my better shirts to wok..... so my girlfriends but new shirts from walmart for 4-5 bucks apiece....... sweet, ...... at least I thought........

Nice morning, I was putting on one of these shirts, and my girlfriend asked.......... You're not going to wear your new shirts to work, are you?

My response was,....... I guess not. I guess I have to buy some company shirts, with the logo.

5 shirts and $150.00 later.... she saw the shirts and said .... oh, those are nice, how much did you pay for them?......

5 dollar walmart shirts are practically see thru

Actually they would have done nicely........... oh wait.,,,,...... are you calling me fat?

Well, that might be useful for certain lines of work, like Music Video Dancer.

All the better being summer's coming on, it gets hotter than hell in Sacramento

Both hands up here!

The only bad marks I have on my credit reports are from someone elses 'F' ups. Seems like it takes some unknown pinhead all of five seconds to get the wrong persons bad credit and related nonsense attached to my file but it takes months to prove I am not that person.

Ever try to prove you never lived someplace else? Surprisingly hard. Ever try and prove that you are not someone else who has the same name? Even harder and both take time and money to fix and the goons who review your credit ratings seem to never know who to contact to fix that sort of stuff either. You can contact the agency who put it there (if they are listed) but all they want is your money to fix their mistake.

I haven't had a credit card in decades.

Cash works just fine.

To get a credit card here you actually have to have a cash deposit security the same size as your card limit. They pay you interest on that security. So basically not really a credit card but a debit card that permits you to transact with merchant account holders.

Cashing cheques here just requires a passport, signature and telephone number. The name on the cheque has to match the passport name perfectly.

The banks here maintain their own who is who data bases.

It is information used to complete a psychological personality index that is analyzed by HR personnel to determine if you meet the company's employee mold and to determine if you are a "high risk" employee.

There are several companies that now include a disclaimer on the employment form stating that the applicant willingly waives their right in a court of law to litigation should any error or other action comitted by the prospective employer and/or any past employer cause any discomfort and/or personal damage to the individual applying for the job. (Not exact wording.) (If you do not sign it, the application is null & void.)

This waiver also includes releasing any/all past employers from litigation for revealing or sharing any applicant's work history record including any/all reprimands, safety violations, and/or attendance due to health or any other reason.

Gambling is also a "red flag" warning to prospective employers because the psychological experts state that any employe that gambles will also take risks in the workplace that non-gamblers would not take therefore people who gamble are a high safety risk.

And the list goes on.

We just had an HR session yesterday wherein we were all told to look at a person's body language during interviews to determine if they are hostile (non blinking), attentive (drowsy, nodding off, not looking at you), bored, angry (loud voice, shaking, rapid blinking, fast speech.) , doped up (All of the above), shutting you out/not listening (crossed arms), or any other "high risk" state.

Seriously? I know there is some credibility to some of these psyche standards however I am sure most people rest their arms by crossing them after long periods of time and it doen't have anything to do with the conversation.

Every word we speak, every action our body displays/exhibits, every word we write, and every word we hear is subject to interpretation by others and seldom is interpreted correctly.

BULLS*$&T! No human being can possibly accurately judge another human being's character using all these new age methods. (Rant over)

You anger is natural. You are obviously more responsible/competent than the persons calling the shots at your organization. Yes body language is very helpful because it is harder to lie with non verbal language but it is done routinely during interviews. Most how to find a job courses list the dos and donts and suggest practicing with another person or at least in front of a mirror looking for body language. I am sure all the supposed advances in the hiring process has only allowed the best gamers to get hired. I for one am proof of that. I learned how to play the game after being out of work for 13 months and learning head hunters will not represent a programmer out of work for even 11 months. 12 months out of work is death for a programmer and you are over qualified for most other jobs. Over qualified means the guy who would hire you believes you could do his job better than he. Since that 13 month gap, I have cut my seek time to less than half each time. I am just a competent but play the game much better.

The power hungry will hitch to any star for recognition and those actions work because most powerful persons got there in the same way. This is why companies fail after the great persons that made the company great retire.

As long as they don't inspect your CR4 avatar, you're in the clear!

You could always get into painting.

If they ran background checks, credit checks, drug tests, etc.....there wouldn't be any painters.

Actually I picked up some part time work driving school bus for a local school that has two drivers leaving and no one that has applied has their bus licence yet.

Didn't even apply. Got asked and I start learning the routes tomorrow

~$30 and hour. One hour in the morning and two in the afternoon.

If I must I must.

Better than nothin'.

Don't they bother with any of the, "Looking for a responsible person", stuff, when looking for school bus drivers?

Heck no! This is a public school!

Actually my dad is the head administrator there and I am in their system. I do some sideline welding work for them when they have broken desks and tables and I used to be a substitute bus driver for the school some years ago.

I just spent the whole day at the local college working as a judge for the Science Olympiad kids on their behalf.

BTW I just got a call to go to another place for an interview to drive truck now.

Not a bad work-day, except for having to work twice as much in the afternoon. Don't they have a union?

I wouldn't join a union even if I was held at gun point.

A while back in our area, Bus Drivers where usually farmers. trying to pick up extra cash....... and after a while, even though it was considered part-time, because of the difficulty in getting drivers they offed health insurance.

Hope its the same ....

My wife works for the local phone company as a draftsperson and they provide some of the top insurance in the area so I have no need for it.

Will she continue to receive health insurance after she retires? Most of the persons that continue receiving insurance after they retire work for some form of government. No one else can afford to do that.

I know you are young and retirement is a long way off. I am old and realize most of the people I know who retired early because they were 'set' all worked for the government. Many make more now that they are retired because of the formula - years of service x a percentage of last year's salary. When they were hired their salaries were jokes. Even though it never met private sector, most of us don't get paid after we retire. I would have laughed at that when I was your age. I made more than they did for most of my career but I can't afford to retire early or even at 65. My best move was to marry a teacher so I do not need to worry about insurance either.

aDIYguy-

Yes, a teacher as a spouse is the key to retirement. Salary (higher track for her MA), S. Security now, Pension after retirement, health benefits during retirement and best of all she is still working there! Although she isn't retired yet, she loved the kids so she is staying a year or two more. Best about it is she works and I'm retired and LOVING IT!

Look forward to retirement, it's not as poor as you might anticipate!

Good Luck, Old Salt

With things are the way they are going...... The public sector unions are being challenged to be more in line with the environment others have being experiencing ........ As well as states begining to bring their finances under control.

They are going GREAT compared to the private sector. To be sure, the thumb screws are being tightened and the teachers are complaining. I have to give my wife a pep talk every now and then to remind her there are are people in the private sector that would 'kill' for her job. A small raise is better than no raise and no raise is much better than getting laid off and struggling to get a job for much less pay.

My wife is union. The biggest benefit we will not have to pay tax on our health care benefits. I dissagree with that part of the law as much as the rest but am relieved I don't have an extra 20k added to our household income. Her union is well managed. They tend to bend if they must over pay and benefits. They have opted for no raises to reduce lay-offs. I have no sympathy for government unions that expect nice raises when the tax base is working harder for less. They do not know how lucky they are to have jobs.

The were insulated from the true economy for a very long time.... and when they were being adjusted to it, they felt that they were being singled out......... when in fact they were being placed with the rest of us.......... its still not where it should be, but at least now it's manageable.

At least in Wisconsin it is.

Teachers are so used to believing they are over worked and under paid many have no idea just how rough the private sector is. Businesses used to figure how many were needed and lay off some of the excess. Now they lay off more than they should then hire back what they need for less money. This is after the survivors are doing multiple jobs. If they can't handle it they will not last long.

There are very good teachers....... and they should be rewarded....... but under the union rules, they are not, instead its all evenly distributed......

I'm glad in Wisconsin, they are trying to change that.

Compare the teacher's salary to a babysitter's wages. If each family paid the teacher babysitter wages for watching their kid for the length of a school day,the teacher would end up making more money than they do now for TEACHING the kids, not just watching after them.

Either teachers are underpaid, or babysitters are overpaid, and babysitters generally make minimum wage.

Compare the teacher's salary to a babysitter's wages. If each family paid the teacher babysitter wages for watching their kid for the length of a school day,the teacher would end up making more money than they do now for TEACHING the kids, not just watching after them.

Really??????

Possible....

well, lets try to back that up.....

• If the baby sitter works full time 260 days a year,
• And minimum wage goes to 15.00/ hour, And lets not boost union wages up also, because union salary is based on the minimum wage…..
• And you just take the teacher's salary,

Then yes, maybe if you just compare the salary and use the smaller school districts....., but the fringe benefits were always lucrative………

Use this , choose any school district in Wisconsin, or even a name if you know of any teachers in Wisconsin…….. because this was when after the teachers salary was addressed in Wisconsin ….

There are many excellent teachers out there. Many more than most give them credit for. The stereotype of a lazy, money sucking, late to school-first to leave, don't give a damn about the kids is correct for a few just as there are in private industrial, commercial and government organizations. It is unfair for many people to complain about teachers in generalities instead of really looking into the subject and recognizing those who are very good to excellent. Also a teacher should not be graded on the basis of how those, who know little about classroom teaching, rate them on how well they teach. What is important is how well the students learn the subject not how well someone thinks they teach.

I have been married to a teacher for many years. During those years I have observed many more teachers that were good to excellent than I have seen not worthwhile. The good ones earn every cent they are paid for.

Being union doesn't make someone good or bad. Unions don't teach the children, it's the teachers. She was also the president of her union many years ago. Why, there was great turmoil in the town because of the consolidation two public school organizations and the other union being uncooperative. She did it for the good of the teachers and especially the sake of the children.

Teachers are the molders of the minds of the near future. Give them some credit where credit is due. Everyone should think back and think of the most influential people in their lives. There probably are a few teachers among them.

Good Luck, Old Salt

" Everyone should think back and think of the most influential people in their lives. There probably are a few teachers among them."

I figure I have had around 100 teachers in my life. I can say that I can count the above and beyond ones on one hand. I can also count the bottom of the barrel ones to be about 2 - 3 times that and the other 80 or so I don't really recall at all.

Wise words of wisdom!

Give credit to those who did well and above the "average". Give no credit to those who "just get by". Don't confuse the two. This holds true in many other things besides teaching.

As you might have noticed, my high school grammar, composition and typing teachers did not have much, if any, influence on me. There were a couple who influenced me other than academically. They were very nice eye candy!

Good Luck, Old Salt

And its the teachers, that taught beyond the class room that I remember.

we will see if she still has it after next year...........

^{by that time the security issues that are not addressed on the website should have been addressed........ may not be fixed, but they'd be addressed}

Oh I expect her to be there for a long time. It's not like she will find a job that is any easier that pays as well and they really really like her! Her OCD like attention to detail works well in her job.

In fact she just found a number of fiber optic line installation length discrepancies that may prove to show the sub contractor who installed them was severely padding their numbers. Basically the amount of cable they got billed for between pull boxes in a large number of locations is substantially more than the actual map distance allows for which when combined could mean a substantial refund (potentially 5 - 6+ figures) on their billing could be in order.

oh, I meant that the company still offering the insurance to their employees

Not too worried about it.

That's a nice gig. Extra $500 in your pocket every week.

Do bus drivers get tips?

10% of students' lunch money, if you beg hard enough. But tcmtech doesn't do tips, so this is not a consideration.

Hey, who ate all the lunches?.........