Previous in Forum: Post Insulators   Next in Forum: Motor Wiring
Close
Close
Close
11 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Active Contributor

Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 17

Reverse Generator Field Terminals

03/16/2014 3:23 PM

Hello gents,

Having nice day.

I just asking about effect of reversing connection of dc+ and dc- to exciter field and to main genertor field.

When I do experiment when I reverse terminals of exciter field ... No induced voltage of generator.

when I reverse main generator field terminals ... generator works well

So I ask if this right... And why this happened

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#1

Re: Reverse genertor field terminals

03/16/2014 3:51 PM

Some diodes may be involved....

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1056
Good Answers: 88
#2

Re: Reverse Generator Field Terminals

03/16/2014 7:20 PM

Exciter core is made to retain some magnetism, enough to kick start the electricity production. Reversing exciter terminals will eliminate that, feedback will be negative, and electrons will stay home. S.M.

__________________
Life is complex. It has a real part and an imaginary part.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: srilanka
Posts: 2725
Good Answers: 5
#3

Re: Reverse Generator Field Terminals

03/16/2014 11:34 PM

In a dc motor if you reverse field terminals,will it rotate in reverse direction?.

__________________
pnaban
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: About 4000 miles from the center of the earth (+/-100 mi)
Posts: 9910
Good Answers: 1141
#5
In reply to #3

Re: Reverse Generator Field Terminals

03/17/2014 10:47 AM

I would think so, unless there are come diodes in the circuit. However, the efficiency is higher in the intended direction because the brushes are offset to compensate for field distortion due to the rotor's rotation.

See:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brushed_DC_electric_motor#The_commutating_plane

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 17996
Good Answers: 200
#6
In reply to #3

Re: Reverse Generator Field Terminals

03/17/2014 11:25 AM

Depends upon the DC motor type.

Most with wound fields still turn in the same direction. I could say all but I bet there is one type with say full wave rectifiers that is not affected somewhere....

Some small motors have permanent magnets for field poles, they will reverse...

There are also DC motors without a commutator (brushless), some, if you reverse the supply, you burn out the hall effect sensors....

__________________
"What others say about you reveals more about them, than it does you." Anon.
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 17996
Good Answers: 200
#4

Re: Reverse Generator Field Terminals

03/17/2014 6:52 AM

Could you be more explicit please?

Are you talking about a DC output generator or (as I suspect) an AC output Alternator?

I personally reserve Generator for DC and Alternator for AC, but many don't......that would help in giving back valid infos.......

__________________
"What others say about you reveals more about them, than it does you." Anon.
Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 17
#7

Re: Reverse Generator Field Terminals

03/17/2014 2:43 PM

I talk about AC Synchronous generator (brushless)

Register to Reply
3
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: About 4000 miles from the center of the earth (+/-100 mi)
Posts: 9910
Good Answers: 1141
#8
In reply to #7

Re: Reverse Generator Field Terminals

03/17/2014 8:58 PM

A brushless synchronous generate is actually two alternators, a main alternator and a smaller alternator, or exciter, mounted on the same shaft in a common housing. The stator of the exciter is supplied with DC and an AC voltage is induced in the exciter rotor. This AC is rectified and filtered and used to excite the rotor of the main alternator, which generates AC in the main alternator stator field windings.

If this output AC is rectified and used to energize the exciter stator field, then the generator bootstraps itself up. It can do this because there is some residual magnetism in the core of the excitor that gets the process started, as SimpleMind has explained in #2.

If you reverse the polarity on the excitor field, then as the generator starts up, any voltage generated bucks against this residual magnetism. In other words, when the field is excited in the correct direction, the residual magnetism and the applied current are in the same direction and helps it start up (positive feedback). With the reverse polarity, the induced current opposes the residual magnetism (negative feedback), and keeps it from starting up.

Sometimes, the residual magnetism is not sufficient for the generator to start. In this case, the field can be "flashed" by applying a DC voltage.

If you used an independent source of DC for the exciter field, it should work either way.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: NYC metropolitan area.
Posts: 3230
Good Answers: 444
#9

Re: Reverse Generator Field Terminals

03/18/2014 2:10 PM

To add to Rixter's post, it is unlikely that a randomly chosen voltage would just be strong enough to cancel out the residual magnetism, and on many modern brushless excitation systems maintaining the proper polarity to the pilot exciter field is very important.

As Tornado pointed out, there are diodes lurking in those systems. In most cases there is a diode across the exciter field leads, sometimes it's located at the output of the excitation system, other times it's located internal to the exciter and across the leads into the field winding.

Normally it's back biased and doesn't conduct, it's purpose is to absorb the inductive kick if one of the field leads becomes disconnected. It also will conduct if the field lead polarity is reversed as OP originally postulated; that will also effectively prevent any current from the battery from reaching the actual field winding and causing any voltage buildup.

__________________
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” Ben Franklin.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: About 4000 miles from the center of the earth (+/-100 mi)
Posts: 9910
Good Answers: 1141
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Reverse Generator Field Terminals

03/18/2014 2:46 PM

Good point, if there are snubber diodes, it would be a bad idea to reverse the polarity. If the polarity is marked, there very well may be a good reason. It's best not to experiment.

Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 6
#11

Re: Reverse Generator Field Terminals

03/21/2014 5:05 AM

I have seen AC generators where two of the exciter field poles are permanent magnets to give enough residual volts for soft start. In this case polarity is important. But generally if applying directly to the exciter field shouldnt be a problem.

What voltage is generated with no voltage on the exciter field?

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 11 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Andy Germany (2); dooola2020 (1); pnaban (1); RAMConsult (1); Rixter (3); SimpleMind (1); Tornado (1); ukeagle (1)

Previous in Forum: Post Insulators   Next in Forum: Motor Wiring

Advertisement