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Sizing the Turbine

04/08/2014 5:42 AM

How do turbine manufacturers decide the size of a turbine, for a particular capacity (MW)specified by client ??
For example, if I am specifying the steam conditions as 390 degree centigrade and pressure of 90 bar. The size of turbine will be different for 50 MW or 100 MW capacity.
How is it done??

please share your knowledge

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#1

Re: Sizing the Turbine

04/08/2014 6:51 AM

Power is torque multiplied by angular velocity, and angular velocity is related to the poles on the generator and the frequency needed for the outgoing supply. In order to generate more power from a larger generator, more torque will be needed from the turbine.

There is a limit to the torque that any rotating equipment shaft can sustain and in order to increase the torque for a similar machine, the shaft has to be made larger. In order to produce and sustain the larger torque, the machine has to get bigger. The size of the machine is determined by experimental activity during the design proving phase of the equipment and from what is learned during the commissioning phase of equipment that is installed on site. QED.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Sizing the Turbine

04/08/2014 7:10 AM

many thanks,

I have another question,

from your earlier answer, it is inferred that rpm will remain constant (angular velocity). why do we regulate steam flow rate to meet the required load??

I think increasing flow rate increases the rpm

please correct me with regard to this

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Sizing the Turbine

04/08/2014 7:15 AM

If the load increases then the equipment has to work harder and, just like a vehicle going from level to travelling up a slope, if the steam rate is not increased the thing will slow down; slowing down will cause the thing to trip off the local grid due to speed mismatch. Fortunately, speed regulation is straightforward and any number of ways of automatically regulating the speed can be found.

Wikipedia has an article on speed governors. Bedtime reading, perhaps?

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Sizing the Turbine

04/08/2014 7:18 AM

hmm,

thanks a lot..

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#9
In reply to #2

Re: Sizing the Turbine

04/09/2014 7:09 PM

To answer your question about speed. The turbine is governed to a set speed to maintain frequency. Normally a turbine generator runs at 3600 rpm's which is 60 cycles. This is constant from 1 mw to 800 mw's in the USA. Some larger turbines turn at 1800 rpms due to the size. The 1800 rpm turbines are mostly very large units and they are designed for torque at that rpm. All 1800 rpm generators are 4 pole and 3600 rpm generators are 2 pole. You also have high speed turbines that turn a gearbox. The gearbox always has an output of 1800 or 3600 rpm's. To increase load or MW's you increase steam flow but maintain a constant speed. 50 cycle turbines are governed to a different speed. right off hand I do not remember this speed. Hope this helps you understand a little better.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Sizing the Turbine

04/10/2014 5:09 AM

hey,

I'm a mechanical engineer, generator!! doesn't know much about it.

when we say load has increased on generator, it mean that rpm is going down. so, we increase the flow rate to attain the rated rpm.

is my understanding correct??

--ntr

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Sizing the Turbine

04/10/2014 8:17 AM

I am not a mechanical Engeer but i have been rebuilding Steam and gas turbines for the past 40 years. I worked as a field engineer with General Electric for 15 years. For a power company for 13 years and now own my own consulting company. a turbine is governed to a set speed for frequency and it has control valves. When you load the turbine (increas 's MW's) the governor senses that the speed is decaying and the valves open to maintain the speed. I set up the governors on a lot of different brands of turbines. You are correct about the speed is decaying when you load the turbine but the speed governor and the pilot valve and bushing will move the control valves on it's own if the speed of the unit starts to slow down when you increase MW's.

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Sizing the Turbine

04/10/2014 11:44 PM

Thanks,

now I am understanding better..

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#5

Re: Sizing the Turbine

04/08/2014 1:42 PM
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#8
In reply to #5

Re: Sizing the Turbine

04/09/2014 2:16 AM

hey,

thanks for the link..

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#6

Re: Sizing the Turbine

04/09/2014 1:38 AM

Dear Mr. ntr,

You have given the the steam inlet condition only. You have not mentioned the following. Unless these details are furnished sizing of the Turbine is not possible.

1. The Exhaust Steam condition - whether it is working in vaccuum - condenser as condensing Turbine or working as Back-Pressure Turbine, going to the Process and the condition of the Exhaust Steam such as Pressure, Temperature etc.

2. When the Turbine is working as Back-Pressure Turbine, whether the entire steam goes to the process or partly going to process and balance to the Condenser.

3. Whether any steam is bled for Boiler Feed Water Heater, if so the Quantity and Steam Conditions to be specified.

The Basic philosophy is the Steam required per KW energy will decide the Turbine sizing, which is also linked NETT HEAT DROP per Kg. of Steam.

One KW of Power requires 860 K.Cal of Heat or 3600 Kilo Joules per Hour. Knowing/Calculating the Heat Drop per Kg. of Steam, the total steam flow per KW can be calculated

i.e., Steam/KW.Hr = 860/Nett Heat Drop per g. of Steam will be known. Since total power is known the steam flow required can be calculated and then sizing of the Turbine will be decided, considering a Steam Entry Velocity of 2200 Ft./Sec or 670 to 675 M/Sec.

DHAYANANDHAN.S

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Sizing the Turbine

04/09/2014 2:15 AM

Dear Sir,

Thanks for sharing this information.

my question was only to know difference between the 50 MW and 100 MW turbine,,,and PWslack's comment has cleared my doubt..

once again thanks for the interest shown and please keep sharing your valuable points.

--Neerubavi Thipperudra (NTR)

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