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Viva La Difference! Or How They Do Things On The Other Side Of The Pond

04/09/2014 10:18 AM

Hey Guys and Gals,

You all have come to know me as the odd ball who tends to drop in the comment from the fringe or has the nonstandard approach well mapped.

Well today i want to talk about something I find crazy.

So, I am working with a Getinge Pre-vacuum sterilizer. (aka fancy autoclave designed by NASA) This thing is a marvel of modern electronic and pneumatic control system with enough safety feature to boggle the mind. In short one really well engineered and manufactured piece of equipment. As one would expect from the Swedes I guess.

However we have run into a interesting variance in manufacturing process between Europe and The US. I know what a surprise!

In the US we use tapered threads and pipe sealant to secure water and steam lines. This practice usually last for many years of hard service before the materials degrade and need replacing.

The European's take a different approach that I find somewhat befuddling. They use straight threaded fittings and O rings. Nothing is actually tight or secure but simply held in place by the friction of the O rings. So after three years of really heavy use (over 5000 cycles in 36 months) We are having daily leaks of water and steam as these O rings one by one fail. I finally had to contact Getinge direct and talk to them about8t a complete rebuild since I cant have this thing puking water all over the place or leaking steam from an already maxed out system.

This might surprise the crowd here, but this it the first time we have run into this sort of situation. One, as you might remember this is not my trained field so it surprised me. Our facility had been using nothing but Steris gravity sterilizers up until this Getinge arrived so we were not prepared for this and it has been a bit of a challenge to get a handle on because this type of assembly is so foreign to our experience in his facility. Finally we had to contact the maintenance people at our Neibull plant to get the information that yes, this is normal for European units and a complete rebuild was needed because we could not get this info from the US Getinge office.

So, now that I have put all of that out there, have any of you guys or gals run into this situation as well?

Is this really more common than I realize because of my inexperience?

Since we are getting more and more European equipment now and I have to work out prevent-maint programs for them it would help me to know if this is really a standard practice or this was a unique situation that I may not run into gain or often?

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#1

Re: Viva La Difference! or how they do things on the other side of the pond.

04/09/2014 10:23 AM

We occasionally use these type fittings here in the cal lab. Yes. O-rings get dry and leak. They need to be checked or replaced as necessary.

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#2

Re: Viva La Difference! Or How They Do Things On The Other Side Of The Pond.

04/09/2014 12:32 PM

The choice of taper or straight fittings is down to the designer, both are commonly used in Europe.

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#3

Re: Viva La Difference! Or How They Do Things On The Other Side Of The Pond.

04/10/2014 12:21 AM

One encounters both types.

I like the o ring seal fittings. Don't need much force to obtain a reliable seal and no sealant contaminants pollute inside or around the piping.

Maybe the extant o-ring material (?) needs to be upgrade to say PFTE...

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#4

Re: Viva La Difference! Or How They Do Things On The Other Side Of The Pond.

04/10/2014 12:43 AM

Here in the states, the use of the o ring design is common in hydraulic systems. The straight thread will allow the fitting to swivel to what ever angle is required, and still provide strong leak-proof sealing. The trick is the jam not that is installed on the fitting before installing into the housing. By design, there should be a smooth surface for the O ring to ride on on the fitting, and the housing should have a smooth tapered surface where the fitting threads into it. When the fitting is installed to the correct depth, the two smooth surfaces are aligned. Then when the jam nut (often with a washer first) is tightened against the housing, the O ring is squeezed to an exact shape that should not leak, or move. Thus preventing any damage to the O ring. I find the captured O ring to be more common on higher pressure hydraulic systems than the tapered metal seat design (JIC) used on lower pressure systems. Just my observations over many years.

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#5

Re: Viva La Difference! Or How They Do Things On The Other Side Of The Pond.

04/10/2014 1:01 AM

Silicone O-rings might suit high temperatures better than other choices.

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#10
In reply to #5

Re: Viva La Difference! Or How They Do Things On The Other Side Of The Pond.

04/20/2014 11:49 PM

Good point. There are many choices for compounds available for O rings. Silicone should be good for 500 degrees F, but is a poor choice if any movement is there. Viton is good substitute for silicone if there is movement, as it is only 60 degrees less than silicone. The compound must also be chemically compatible with any chemicals present as Old Salt noted.

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#6

Re: Viva La Difference! Or How They Do Things On The Other Side Of The Pond

04/10/2014 10:53 PM

Have they tried o-rings of different formulations of rubber or non-rubber compositions? There are hundreds of o-ring formulations for various uses and resistance to materials. O-rings usually go bad from either dry out, "shelf rot" or are affected by the material being handled. For instance a butyl rubber o-ring would weaken and swell if used with tri-chlorethane, a highly chlorinated solvent that was used in ultra-sonic cleaners. Contact a reputable o-ring manufacturer or supplier such as:

C. E. Conover http://www.conoverseals.com/

Parker Hannifin http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/menuitem.14ecfc66e7a40c1af8500f199420d1ca/?vgnextoid=43cb5242ade5c110VgnVCM10000032a71dacRCRD&Keyword=O-RINGS

Gallagher Seals http://www.gallagherseals.com/o-rings.html

Explain the situation to them and let their tech service personnel help you.

Also, in some cases a slight bevel on the edge of the female fitting will help in sealing.

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#7

Re: Viva La Difference! Or How They Do Things On The Other Side Of The Pond

04/11/2014 7:51 PM

I ran into this on a british built vacuum pumping system. When i got it used there was no orings just pipe dope. The piece in question had 19 threads per inch on both ends inside but only one end going into it was tapered. The tube is parallel threaded, Yes the manufacturer did run a tapered end into parallel threads. I could never get the parallel sided end to stop leaking with pipe dope (with no oring groove I never though it needed an oring) so I took it all apart and rethreaded it, both tube and ends, to a 19tpi taper thread. This worked. Getting the taps and dies took a while. the expanded parts drawing does not show an oring, but there is an oring listed in the parts breakout. That is how I finally figured out it was supposed to have an oring in it. It does not have an oring groove but is tapered on both sides at that end. It has not leaked since I added the tapered threads.

It took me a while just to believe it was 19 threads per inch. That is totally non standard in the USA. It was hard to measure with only just under 3/8 inch of thread on the male part. My old threading gauge has only 18tpi and 20tpi to compare to. This pump has two of these fitting and both are now converted.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Viva La Difference! Or How They Do Things On The Other Side Of The Pond

04/12/2014 5:43 AM

19 TPI is standard for 1/4" & 3/8" BSP parallel & taper threads.

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#9

Re: Viva La Difference! Or How They Do Things On The Other Side Of The Pond

04/19/2014 1:22 PM

I Thank all of you who took the time to consider my dilemma.

Much of what was posted I already knew, from experience.

I have talked to Getinge's engineering dept. several times and have encountered a resistance to change that is well beyond my ability to overcome. The Swede's are pretty set in their ways it seems. Our American Getinge office is sympathetic and will give us a price break on the service contract as a result, but that is my only option short of invalidating all the required Pharmaceutical regulations, validations ,and documentations required by law in this country, We already know DuPont is not going down that road for anyone.

So I have bought a mop and bucket, and have our service tech's cell and home phone numbers. *sigh*

That seems to be the best anyone can do. We are tied in to so many regulatory agencies when you start to produce pharma level materials that nothing moves without an act of God apparently.

Thanks for all the feed back.

I posted a funny today if anyone is looking for a grin.

Happy Easter!

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