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Interfering Sound Reflections and Frequency Response

06/20/2007 4:41 PM

The challenge question this week got me thinking about another audible sound effect I had noticed recently.

I was in church last Sunday and noticed a peculiar sound effect. Although not a round room or domed ceiling, the ceiling did slant from the center, directly over the priests conducting the mass. Also, the floor slanted up from center to the outside walls somewhat. The priests also used microphones to amplify their voices. Usually, their speech was very clear to me when sitting in the back, or at least towards the rear. This rear section was carpeted. However, in the front section near the alter the floor was a very hard marble stone. This particular Sunday, my son chose to have the family sit near to the front, well over the stone floor section. To my displeasure, I found it very hard to follow the priests' speech as it seemed at times muffled or distorted and hard to understand even though we were now much closer to them. I could only guess that due to our location and the reflections off the stone, the sound arriving at my ears from different directions was somehow interfering with each other, perhaps out of phase as well at some frequencies, but not as bad at others.

Could this explain the problem, or should I go get my hearing checked again? I know my hearing is not the best (genetics, age, and exposure to jet engine noise while in the Air Force) but the difference from one Sunday to the next was quite dramatic. Even my wife remarked that it was hard for her to understand. My kids noticed nothing, but I suspect they were not listening very well anyway!

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#1

Re: Interfering sound reflections and frequency response.

06/20/2007 5:03 PM

Yeah - probably canceling out at lower frequencies - the ones you can hear, but not so much at the higher frequencies that younger ears can hear.

Besides, kids who have grown up with mp3s and cell phones have extra synapses in their brains which have learned to supply the missing bits of garbled sound.

Or, so it seems, anyway.

The ancient pagans had the best design:

http://www.livescience.com/history/070405_greeks_acoustics.html

Probably not so good for rainy Sunday mornings, though.

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#6
In reply to #1

Re: Interfering sound reflections and frequency response.

06/21/2007 6:46 AM

Oh, yes... My ancient ancestors knew very well what they were doing... I have visited the ancient theater of Epidavros and the acoustics is amazing... The usual demonstration: The audience is quiet and someone rips a piece of paper or drops a coin on the floor... You can hear it clearly wherever you are sitting...

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#2

Re: Interfering sound reflections and frequency response.

06/20/2007 8:13 PM

Maybe perhaps you have become aged as Finaly hapened to my very self, maybe, I think. As it happened, it came the time that I was not understanding my wife, come to think of it... I mean the actual spoken word, or my kids... same thing, so I began to research the Hearing aids providers. Big investment for very little equipment by todays standard. BUT I discovered in an online hearing test that I had a frequency shift one ear to the other! never heard of such and I wonder if it is common. I played a 1000Hz tone to set up the test using ear buds. If I removed my left earbud I heard in my right ear lets say 1000Hz, removing the right earbud and inserting the left I heard maybe 840Hz, rapid change of one ear to the other sounded like a London police siren. Has anybody heard of this? How do we test to see what we are actually hearing frequencywise? Consider that if I am hearing two tones, surely out of harmony, instead of one and the overtones! Well no wonder I don't understand my wife. So far, per my search, the best hearing aids only amplify selected frequencies.

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#8
In reply to #2

Re: Interfering sound reflections and frequency response.

06/21/2007 10:28 AM

Maybe you have a hole in your head?

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#9
In reply to #2

Re: Interfering sound reflections and frequency response.

06/29/2007 11:57 AM

First, I am neither "an expert" nor up to date - I only know what I found out when researching for my father a few years ago, plus a quick check just now on the Siemens website to see whether/how_much things have changed since then (not a lot).

The "best" hearing aids amplify according to your supposed requirements, adapt this according to the input level - and correlate the adaptation between the two ears - I don't think they do much more yet, though Siemens' blurb does use the phrase "while reducing noise". For many hearing problems you could improve matters a lot further by providing noise suppression and correlation techniques, but SFIK that is not currently being done.

I've not heard of a shift in perceived frequency between the ears before - I imagine it would be pretty troublesome. I can think of two other possibilities that might lead you to this conclusion - the test wasn't doing what it appeared to say (did you try repeating the test with the earphones swapped between your ears), or the volume levels (or hearing sensitivities) were very different, which can give a somewhat siren-like effect when listening one-ear-at-a-time (but doesn't give the same effect when both ears hear the same pitch, as the frequency-shifting effect is in the brain rather than in your ear).


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#3

Re: Interfering sound reflections and frequency response.

06/20/2007 8:27 PM

I think it is about canceling interference, although is is very hard to be conclusive, whenever acoustics in enclosed area are concerned.

Acoustics in architecture, is as much about magic as it is about science.

In any such structure (your community's church for example), very complex sound patterns may develop, most of which are not 'visible' in advance, at the design stage.

Some of today's design offices are equipped with sound-pattern simulators to complement the structural design, and even so, the patterns of sound progression in three dimensions is extremely complex, sometimes far beyond the simulator's most detailed capability.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Interfering sound reflections and frequency response.

06/21/2007 3:04 AM

If the priest was using a wireless mic, it could be that the battery was getting low and causing poor output from the mic.

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#5

Re: Interfering sound reflections and frequency response.

06/21/2007 5:53 AM

this is habitual synchronization of the brain, since these are sound which are normally around your surrounding. for example my mobile phone will ring 21 hours in a day, so sometimes when i leave it at a distance from me i could hear it ringing but in actual fact it is not ringing.

this had happened several time and now i sometimes ignore some of my calls. so i think this should be an issue that should be address critically.

Regards,

Gerald

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#7

Re: Interfering sound reflections and frequency response.

06/21/2007 8:48 AM

A visit to certain artefacts of the ancient world can be illuminating (in an audible sort of way). Listening to a speaker located at the centre of an amphitheatre from one of the seats, the lack of any need for amplification (only invented after Michael Faraday & Co. had played about) is initially surprising.

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