Chinese Supersonic Supercavitation Supersub Coming Your Way?

Buncha junk...squall on steroids. Sounds like more of the Far East's propaganda-gonna-scare-the-United-States-into-giving-up BS.

No practical purpose. A missile fired from an undisclosed location in the Pacific is much faster.

The amount of noise alone makes it too stupid for a submarine. You'd hear it coming long before it could slow to a speed suitable for weapon launch.

Throw a fishing net at the DR point and watch the fireworks. Just trying to avoid the in-situ fishing would be nearly impossible.

Now...if they had hypersonic unicorns...that would really be something.

"If a swimsuit can create and hold many tiny bubbles in water, it can significantly reduce the water drag; swimming in water could be as effortless as flying in the sky," says Li.
It seems as though they have the flying part taken care of.

The amount of noise alone makes it too stupid for a submarine. You'd hear it coming long before it could slow to a speed suitable for weapon launch.

Actually if it is traveling at the speed of sound, you wouldn't hear it coming. However, the US operates a network of sound detectors on the ocean floor which (as I understand it) would transmit the info via wire (at approx the speed of light). So there would be some warning.

I think the real practical difficulty would be building a rocket engine that could sustain ignition for over an hour and a half. That's a lot of fuel (and oxidizer) being burned continuously. They'd also need a rocket motor and nozzle system that could operate at a high temperature under high vibration for that length of time.

Exactly...thanks for making my point for me.

I thought about this some more.

If the device was powered by a nuclear reactor, water could be injected into the reactor to create superheated steam, which could then be used as the reaction mass to propel the ship. The same process could be used to create the cavitation bubbles forced through a nozzle at the front of the ship.

Since the ship is traveling within the shock cone of the cavitation bubbles, there would probably be no way to take in sea water to drive the ship, so the water would all have to be on board at the start of the trip. Seems like that would be a lot of water.

This is all heresy, it travels greater speed in solid and liquids than air.

you think they'd attempt diving while travelling at supersonic?

An interesting engineering concept. I do wonder how practical this approach would be for a submarine. This is not a supersonic submarine. 6000 miles in 100 minutes calculates to 360 mph. The speed of sound in air at sea level is 767 mph. As the link shows, the velocity in water is about 4.3 times faster in water or about 3300 mph. Another case of marketeer hyperbole or pure fear mongering.

At the same time, this is an interesting engineering feat. I do see a modest tactical advantage of this system and hyper-velocity in a torpedo. That is if steering and accuracy complications don't turn this into another error prone weapon.

It is an interesting interesting concept. Not going to happen "soon" and maybe never.

Just curious though, if the speed of sound underwater were broken, what would be the effects? Would there be a trail of fish kills in the wake? A sound tsunami that could damage shoreline structures? Would the sound be transmitted to the air?

A) Only if fish were "nearby"

B) Yes, though it has a different name

C) Yes, (the sound of snapping shrimp can be heard above water)

Faster-than-light travel is an interesting concept, too. Though I believe that Dear Leader has already patented that.

not maybe, just NEVER

Standard speed of sound in water at weapons depth (accounting for temperature, salinity and pressure) is averaged at 5000 fps.

Yah, anything man-made is somewhat short of that.

Of course the article says a lot without saying anything:

"The US is researching its own supercavitational torpedo, but there's very little public information available."

"...faster than the standard torpedoes fielded by the US."

"The primary drive [for supercavitation] still comes from the military, so most research projects are shrouded in secrecy."

Well, duh, apparently not as secret as you should keep things like this...unless you are fear-mongering. Your shroud is showing!

back in the 80s a defense buddy of mine told me about a project the navy was using to introduce various lubricants to the nose of attack subs for short bursts of speed, but nothing as wild as this fairytale

Oops.

My calculation is off by an order of magnitude. The correct calculation of 3600 mph is actually a supersonic velocity in water.

This probably still is just fear mongering. The article cites the Soviet Union's earlier research that produced torpedoes capable of 230 mph. A more careful read of the article supports my opinion of fear mongering.

"In theory, supercavitation could allow for speeds up to the speed of sound..."

The article doesn't claim breaking the water sound barrier, the article doesn't actually claim any measured super cavitation speed reached by a submarine.

3600 mph under the water... no way. I'm wondering if the author of the article was off by a factor of 10. It's a big difference shooting a torpedo a short distance and travelling across the pacific in a submarine. I cannot believe anyone would dare travelling in a bubble under the water at high speed, even if it were possible. I think it's highly improbable.

I had heard of work on a conformal layer or skin that would mimic the skin of whales and other marine mammals as this skin adjusts to flow.

I don't think simulated whale skin would survive breaking the sound barrier.

Within my comment, is a concept, which has a relationship to the article, but needs a certain amount of imagination to find. If one uses these articles to spark curiosity, rather than literally, it produces comments such as those found here. This spark is what CR4 is about, or so I imagined.

U.S. Navy operates SOSUS in the oceans:

https://www.public.navy.mil/subfor/underseawarfaremagazine/Issues/Archives/issue_25/sosus.htm

The USS Intrepid CVS 11, found many Russian Subs with the help of SOSUS, Jezebel, Julie,MAD, Sniffers,Sonoboys (Active and passive), sonar that could sizzle the water around the dome, Grumman S2 Trackers, SH3 Sea Knights and a dedicated crew. The ship is now a museum. And so am I.

unless China could disintegrate this Supersub to electrons, I will believe such thing exist.

Seems like it would take a heck of a lot of air, or whatever gas they are using. For long distances I would think that the entire craft would have to be dedicated to pressure tanks.

It would also be pretty easy to track something that left a trail of giant bubbles.

I think something more feasible would be to run high frequency sound waves through the hull, creating a similar effect by breaking the bond with the surrounding water, or at least loosening it.

There are very strong dynamic forces involved in the collapse of these cavitation "bubbles". In this case behind the sub, if it is real. Would the sub bubbles smell like pot stickers?

My opinion, you lads are a bit quick to pooh-pooh this idea. Stop and think about it a moment. It is not flowing through water but in fact a gaseous water free bubble, where friction is greatly reduced over the length of the body. The highest friction takes place at the nose, therefor the exhaust/drive is inside a waterless area. Granted, there could be noise generated, but we said that about jet engines, helicopter blades, and they are considerably quieter than before. The good old USA has a pulse jet that flew around the world and was missed by many radars, satellites and people. Oddly enough, discovered by a weather man looking at a strange trail in the satellite images.

More recently the USA just landed a plane that flew at 13000mph. It crashed a few weeks ago in the Pacific ocean

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/aug/10/us-military-fastest-plane-falcon

Look up DARPA and pick an existing project they are doing.

The Russians built high speed cavitational torpedoes, 230mph, and had trouble steering them on old technology. Things have changed. That is now resolved if you consider a rudder blade protruding the bubble. The USA admitted recently to flying manned planes, seen as strange lights, over Norway, back in the 1960's, at altitudes never thought possible.

This cavitational submarine I believe is possible and I would even venture it exists as information is only made available when something happens and someone saw something. The Chinese are not the only people doing this, Germans, USA are all competing in this filed. So colleagues, there might just be some truth behind the story.

Maybe they can smite you, (anyone), very quickly.

I'll concede on the nose, yes but the total weight doesn't change.no matter how fast it might be it isnt faster than a missle

Apple and an Orange sir! I guess time will tell.

You say yes, I say no...

Dear leader says he already has 1,000 of these.

BUNCHA JUNK!!!

No.

I cannot fathom what the effect of a bubble collapse would be on a submarine at depth, at speeds over 300 mph. can you say disintegration?, hell they'd be lucky to find an oil slick! I have seen the damage caused by cavitation in hydraulic systems, I just cannot wrap my head around this one.

This is one of the reasons why a torpedo that's supposed to go boom when it stops makes some sense, but not a submarine.

Captain Hikaru Sulu: In range?

Helmsman Lojur: Not yet sir.

Captain Hikaru Sulu: Come on, come on.

Helmsman Lojur: She'll fly apart!

Captain Hikaru Sulu: *Fly her apart then!*