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Warning! POLITICS (Belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 3:14 PM

I don't discuss politics in this or any other forum. I keep my political opinions to myself until I enter the voting booth. With that said, it is election season again here in the US. The TV stations are filled with the usual political advertisements for candidates running for various offices. Adds with nothing but mud slinging, half truths or downright lies, and vague statements and promises that actually say nothing.

I got to thinking, "WHAT IF?"

What if we chose our representatives in government, not by election, but by a random draft from a pool of qualified (what ever that might mean) citizens? Service would be mandatory and limited to one term in office.

Could this be any worse than what we have now?

I know what you might be thinking. What if, by chance the person chosen turned out to be a crook, a drunkard, a philanderer?

I am in the United States, but I welcome comments from members in other nations.

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#1

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 3:30 PM

I could see that being an improvement. But I could also see it being a great horrific disaster.

But why not start with a piece of your suggestion....vote from a pool of qualified citizens. Now that would be an improvement!! As it is, many politicians have little qualifications to do the job they are seeking (other than getting lot's of funding).

As far as what 'qualified' means....hmmmm good question.

Another approach (although one that is highly unpopular as it can be abused), require citizens to have some knowledge of what the candidate stands for and some knowledge of the other issues they are voting for. How can we expect citizens to elect a competent representative if they themselves are not even remotely competent? I don't expect all citizens to be budget experts evaluating candidates' abilities to create and manage the budget of the USA, but for crying out loud, they ought to have some basic ideal. The same goes for basics in other subjects.

Of course the problem with this is who determines whether the citizens are competent.

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#5
In reply to #1

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 3:45 PM

Could this be a greater horrific disaster than our current congress?

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#38
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/06/2014 12:20 AM

Unless the political and elections are revised there will be disaster. Superpowers protecting horrible leaders(president/prime minister/dictator)to be banned. UN should be given a free hand.

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#2

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 3:34 PM

Here's my criteria in order of importance:

1) Honest

2) Must truly believe in adhering to the US constitution

3) Intelligent/Educated (Nothing against dumb people, but the job is too important)

4) Must succumb to a full blown psych eval, much like we put our elite troops through.

5) Must be able to pass a basic test that includes science, math, and history. This would not be harder than our standard SAT test that we put our kids through.

6) Must not be a lawyer

In addition, citizens that contribute nothing to society, but are otherwise healthy, don't get to vote.

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#13
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 4:50 PM

NO community organizers allowed to apply!!!

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#14
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 4:52 PM

Unfortunately, we are 6 years too late.

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#97
In reply to #14

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/08/2014 2:52 PM

It's only been six years?

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#3

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 3:41 PM

we were built on representation......works great, dontcha think?

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#4

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 3:42 PM

I know what you might be thinking. What if, by chance the person chosen turned out to be a crook, a drunkard, a philanderer?

And the difference from now would be?

I remember reading a sci-fi story where the "president", was elected from a pool of qualified individuals. Psych tests, the whole nine yards. One of the qualifications was being intelligent enough to not want the job, as anyone who wanted that responsibility, would not do justice to it. Sort of a catch-22.

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#6

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 4:10 PM

Representative government was invented when NOTHING moved faster then the speed of a horse.

With the internet, we don't need representatives, we can vote every issue. And there can be a method of bringing legislation using word processors that have multisource input.

The only thing would be for national security, where there are secrets that only a few (and they would have excess power as currently) would know to keep the state secure.

I would like to try this on the local city and county gov. as a starting experiment. Problem is that the current representative control won't give it back to the people.

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#11
In reply to #6

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 4:40 PM

Good point.

Problem now is that even the internet is nothing more than an information prostitute, willing to sell itself to the highest bidder.

And the ease with which hackers can manipulate programs, steal "secure" data, and passwords/SS#/personal information makes an honest system unattainable.

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#12
In reply to #6

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 4:49 PM

Voting over the internet? I'm sure that will be secure.

By the way, a representative is not only there to vote on issues, but to make policy as well. Part of that policy making is debating and working out details (or at least it should be). Someone has to come up with what to vote on. While we have the means for every citizen to sit in on the debates and participate via Skype or face time, it's impractical as citizens also have to work and take care of their families (or play on their Wii-U's) and how would one manage a debate on a bill with potentially millions of participants? If there were only 1 million participants and each given a minute to speak, it would take almost 2 years for everyone to get a turn (assuming 24 h/day, 7 days/week, 365 days/year).

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#19
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 5:16 PM

The internet not being secure is the first excuse given for not allowing it to be used. All these lapses are only going to improve it.

Here a few years back the local governments went to using computers at the polling locations. A co-worker of mine asked to see the software, and the vendor refused. She got all computer voting removed from the state, as there is no way to have an independent read of the software to prove it's not rigged.

How to fix the current system where they lie and make promises that can't be ever kept, as they would have to be dictators to make them happen. Instead we have system where they lie to get elected, and then the highest bidder manipulates them with a "bribe", called an election donation. The occupy movement failed as they could never get a leader to "float to the top", but their general complaint of the 1% running the place was valid. And as representatives are in charge of fixing this, how can the people make this happen. My view is the founding fathers screwed up, by not having a people override process. Fat chance of modifying any constitution federal or state to fix this.

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#17
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 5:02 PM

Which would bring us back to, having the internet and a computer is a "right", and rather than passing out free cellphones and sandwiches for votes, it would be laptops and taxpayer subsidized internet service...or better yet; give control of the internet to the government to prevent fraud.

I like the idea though...at least on the individual issues, particularly on a local level.

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#7

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 4:14 PM

"I know what you might be thinking. What if, by chance the person chosen turned out to be a crook, a drunkard, a philanderer?"

So??? What do we have now?

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 4:15 PM

Sorry - someone beat me to it.

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#9

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 4:19 PM

The problem lies in the Electoral College (see thread "Fake Cell Towers Are Spying on Us" - we got into a discussion of this) The whole purpose of this is to prevent a commoner from getting to the Presidency - I believe this would trash that important concept of our political system.

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#10

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 4:32 PM

I grew up in a small NH town where the local government was run by the town meeting, where every citizen had a chance to speak and decide on issues.(Credit: Norman Rockwell)

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#98
In reply to #10

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/08/2014 2:54 PM

My hometown of Hingham, Massachusetts had the same format when I lived there. A board of Selectmen took care of things between town meetings.

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#15

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 4:52 PM

I would much prefer that we made a few other, less drastic mods:

The ability to recall our elected representatives the same way they got into office - by vote. Make it as easy for them to lose their jobs as everyone else can lose theirs: by underperforming, misbehaving or failing to do their job, ie, for not putting their state's interests first and foremost.

Another mod: No lifetime retirement at high salaries with uncountable bennies after a mere handful-of-years' service. No, if they want full pensions, let them earn their pensions the same way other people earn theirs: by doing a good job for a long time with the same company, ie, their state.

Another mod: the state whom they purport to represent pays their paychecks directly. No more feeding at the government trough and voting themselves raises and other perks at every possible opportunity and at public expense. Servants do not vote themselves raises. If they are beholden to their state, I'd wager we'd get Real Representation for a change, and fast.

They are public servants, first and foremost. These mods would daily remind them of this fact.

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#16

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 4:57 PM

CR4 Rules of Conduct:

Please stay on topic. Posts and comments should be of a technical nature and involve some aspect of engineering, science or technology. If you delve into other topical areas (business, entertainment, sports, etc.), please do your best to tie them back to one of CR4's main focal points. Posts focusing on politics or religion will probably be removed. There are plenty of places on the Web to talk about politics or religion. CR4 isn't one of them. Likewise, strong political and religious sentiments should be kept out of profiles, signatures and other content.

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#24
In reply to #16

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 5:45 PM

Posts whose focus is on the mechanics of voting, and not politics are not "political", as long as political views about specific parties or candidates are excluded.

It would have been OK in the break room, even better if anonymous posters were prohibited from expressing their anonymous, moronic opinions.

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#25
In reply to #24

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 5:51 PM

Of course...we knew it would digress beyond the mechanics of voting (too bad you can't really control what other people say), vis-a-vis:

The problem lies in the Electoral College (see thread "Fake Cell Towers Are Spying on Us" - we got into a discussion of this) The whole purpose of this is to prevent a commoner from getting to the Presidency - I believe this would trash that important concept of our political system.

The ability to recall our elected representatives the same way they got into office - by vote. Make it as easy for them to lose their jobs as everyone else can lose theirs: by underperforming, misbehaving or failing to do their job, ie, for not putting their state's interests first and foremost.

Another mod: No lifetime retirement at high salaries with uncountable bennies after a mere handful-of-years' service. No, if they want full pensions, let them earn their pensions the same way other people earn theirs: by doing a good job for a long time with the same company, ie, their state.

Another mod: the state whom they purport to represent pays their paychecks directly. No more feeding at the government trough and voting themselves raises and other perks at every possible opportunity and at public expense. Servants do not vote themselves raises. If they are beholden to their state, I'd wager we'd get Real Representation for a change, and fast.

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#28
In reply to #25

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 6:27 PM

As 'political' discussions go, this thread about as tame as they come. I don't see the objection. Is it politics or the mud-slinging that oft accompanies political threads that you find objectionable?

Read this thread again: the only 'dispute' here is the one initiated by you.

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#29
In reply to #28

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 7:11 PM

I agree. AMP#1 is just being a dip.

I find nothing political here at all.

The selection process is flawed. By avarice, mostly.

The Electoral College is a relic of pioneer days. Having participated in one state political convention, I can attest that electing the best candidate is not the goal.

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#60
In reply to #28

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/07/2014 2:16 AM

It's political

its against the rules

if you don't like it! change the rules.

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#93
In reply to #24

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/08/2014 8:15 AM

The posts fall mainly into the category of Political Science I believe, so there is no need to scurry to the break room!

Got to agree on the Anonymous...

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#95
In reply to #93

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/08/2014 10:22 AM

Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

I guess admitting it up front you get a free pass.

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#18

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 5:09 PM

Gringo, why didn't you post this in the Break Room?

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#20
In reply to #18

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 5:23 PM

I was trying to get there, but I lost my way.

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#22
In reply to #20

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 5:30 PM

Ah. It happens. Maybe They-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed could be prevailed-upon to gingerly place it there on your behalf?

It's a good thread; I'd hate to see it go the way of the BBT.

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#26
In reply to #22

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 6:03 PM

Thanks. I would love to have more comments, most so far have been very thought provoking.

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#21

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 5:28 PM

Needless fuss. If we ask for it, Multivac will pick "The Voter of The Year".

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#23

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 5:38 PM

Couldn't be much worse than deciding the fate of a person by choosing 12 people at "random" from a pool of "qualified" citizens.

Service is compulsory, with minor exception, with a limited term.

We put people to death...on purpose...using this system in America.

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#27
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 6:18 PM

That is part of my point. Who would you choose to decide your fate? An select panel of elected officials with their own political agenda, and obligations to who knows whom?

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#30
In reply to #27

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 7:35 PM

I think you just stumbled upon the crux of the problem.

In the US, the constitution clearly spells out the responsibilities of government and the Bill of Rights specifically prohibits them from screwing with us.

Nowhere is it stated or implied that government decides our fate. Our fate is to be determined by each one of us as individuals. Period.

If we got back to that, we would see a serious decrease in depenency, drug use, crime, welfare, and every other damned ill that has been created by unconstitutional government intervention.

While it may not be pretty at first, the fix for almost everything, is for them to stop trying to fix things. Easy peasy.

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#32
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 7:59 PM

"If we got back to that"

You can never get back "to that". "It" doesn't exist any more. "It" went away with the telegraph and the railroad.

John D. Rockefeller, Cornelius Vanderbilt, Andrew Carnegie, Henry Ford, J.P. Morgan and others insured the demise of honesty in politics and with that the demise of constitutional government and the Bill of Rights. Those didn't fit their business model.

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#36
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 11:47 PM

In 1787 Ben Franklin seemed to predict the same thing......how old are you ?

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#35
In reply to #30

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 11:37 PM

I sometimes wonder if our citizens know the difference between a Republic and a Democracy (and if they know which we are).

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#39
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/06/2014 12:20 AM

Nah. As an OFFICER OF ELECTIONS (I've served as the Chief of my precinct in Northern Virginia, running the polling place, but not often with and IRON hand, for the past 15 or so years), I've seen way too many voters who couldn't understand the difference if you explained it to them.

So, again, NAH! Nope! Ain't likely!

Low information voters abound!

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#31

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 7:51 PM

Well, the founding fathers never expected the politician to become career politicians, and camp in office, but a temporary cross-section of its constitutes. Basically if that was followed, that I beleive can't be beat.

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#33

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 9:11 PM

Repeal "Citizens United", get the money out of elections/politics.

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#34

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 11:21 PM

Look how many of our representative elected politicians ARE crooks, drunks or philanderers, or any combination of the above.

Personally, I think ALL tend to be. So what would be new about that? At least the single term rule would limit how much damage they could do.

And I'm in the US, also. So I know whereof I speak, for the US.

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#49
In reply to #34

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/06/2014 7:25 AM

And the family multi generations of politics. It's like a blood line.

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#37

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/05/2014 11:59 PM

It would cause a high unemployment rate in the judicial systems. There would be fewer politicians being tried for graft, extortions, fraud, and many other corrupt habits of politicians. Also, Jury Duty wouldn't be as much fun. There would be fewer people acting "weird" in the jury room so they can get out of serving. Just think of all the FBI agents that might be demoted to school crossing guards! (no offense intended J Edgar)

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#40

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/06/2014 12:41 AM

Pretty lame discussion so far. Just thought I'd start with that. TECHNICALLY, the discussion is about governance of humans so you'd expect a little outline of the characteristics of humans, and why the present control systems are failing, and whether it's because they are inherently flawed. I don't worship the Constitution because, although the RICH WHITE MEN who wrote it were well read, they were educated in the early 1700s, when women and blacks were chattel. That alone is enough for a reasonable engineer of governance to demand an Article V convention. But it's too late, Baby Blue.

Anyone ever hear of cognitive science or evolutionary psychology? They describe humans as they are. The Constitution assumes rationality, of the masses. I have to quit now, I'm laughing too hard to type.

My working theory is that humans are essentially ungovernable in the long run, ~300 years and getting shorter.

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#41
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/06/2014 12:47 AM

"TECHNICALLY" the discussion is about selecting competent leaders.

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#42
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/06/2014 1:26 AM

To elect competent leaders constitution should allow many candidates to contest from each party or independently with a list of their solutions to country's problems and voters should put a cross against each solution. The solution which get most votes should be implemented. Power of leaders to start wars,allowing police,mob,officials to attack individuals or minorities should be removed if necessary UN should ban those leaders from holding offices & punish them. Also constitution should allow minorities to live together in certain district or province and employ Governor,police,armed forces,administrators etc from same community there. Attempts by dominant community to weaken them or disrupt their livelihood to be addressed by UN. From end of second world war upto now(Ukraine) how many new nations based on religion & language were created?. If any racial/religious issue erupts government should inform UN instead of trying to solve by force even by inviting foreign troops. Such leaders to be executed like Saddam Hussein.

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#43
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/06/2014 1:36 AM

You, have absolutely no connection to reality. None.

Do you know what the Constitution of the United States even says?

I doubt it!

The UN is an impotent remnant of a time over 50 years ago that has vanished and will never return.

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#45
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/06/2014 2:04 AM

If UN is impotent why?. who created,who drafted it's by-laws?. Few superpowers deliberately & prurposely drafted for certain communities even world minorities(as low as 1million in an island) to have government,foreign aid,armed forces,UN membership etc but major communities with worldwide population more than 80 million have no hope in this world. In every commonwealth country there are racial/religious problems. But only in Europe nations are created(Bosnia,Serbia, Kosova etc).How about third world?. Why you give sovereignty of state,is it to coverup news,crimes,tap telephone conversation,check emails etc. Britishers & americans should accept their crimes against humanity(minorities)and create nations for at least major communities(with more than 50 million population all over the world).Google population of member states in UN & worldwide population which speak every language(example in India). In europe too check population of every nation,based on language,why there are less problems?.

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#46
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/06/2014 2:08 AM

Never mind.

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#50
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/06/2014 7:31 AM

The UN does not enforce it's own resolutions it sets for others to abide by. Such as the resolution passed unto Iraq that Saddam Hussien ignored. The UN is all symbolic, and no substance.

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#52
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/06/2014 7:54 AM

You might get your wish. There are a lot of people that would like to take the failed policies of socialism and institute those in a UN run global government. Redistribution of wealth on a planetary scale, rather than the free distribution of knowledge and education.

Even as we speak, top US leaders have told the people of Africa that they cannot strive to have cars, air conditioning, or even farms, because those things will contribute to global warming. Unfortunately, if we are going to forbid them from helping themselves join the 21st century, the only option, short of letting them die off, is for the wealthier nations to feed and clothe them for all eternity.

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#82
In reply to #45

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/07/2014 7:13 PM
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#99
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/09/2014 2:19 AM

It takes longer for European tempers to fray to the point of violence.

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#100
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/09/2014 5:01 AM
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#101
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/09/2014 5:16 AM

Nicely picked up...I was referring to geographiocal nations, not nationalities or religions.

Including them would complicate the matter beyond my possible input here.

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#102
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/09/2014 6:05 AM

Complicating things is my specialty.

I suspect that the growing unrest with the European Muslim population is going to continue making things complicated.

It seems they have recognized political correctness as a weakness, and they are right.

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#103
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/09/2014 8:28 AM

No argument here. I have read that there is a formula involved, saomething like 5-6% population, start agitating for more rights, and 11-12% population, agitate for political change (autonomy, Sharia law etc...).

Muammar Ghadaffi said there was hope that they could take Europe without firing a shot.

I am just repeating what I have read.....................

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#104
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/09/2014 4:07 PM

I saw something like that too.

With patience, it seems like a pretty good recipe for eventual control. We now have entire communities in the US that are primarily Middle Eastern/Muslim.

Unlike prior European newcomers to America, the current people, regardless of where they're from, show little interest in acclimating to the US. They set up small communities and pretty much keep to themselves...which isn't necessarily a good thing.

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#105
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/09/2014 4:29 PM

They always did that.

Where I Grew up (Rural Farming), we had Polish settlement to our East

Swedes to the North

Irish Settlement to our West

Germans to the South.

And further South to us, we had Belgiums, and they spoke and taught Belgium in the schools, when they put out a new Junior High School back in the 60's. The get funding, they had to teach English. And make it the primary language.

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#106
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/09/2014 7:23 PM

People from Belgium are called Belgians. Teaching Belgium means?

There are 3 languages in Belgium: Flemish, French and a minority of German. These groups represent 3 cultures.

What place do you refer to? Your comment is not clear to me.

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#110
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/09/2014 10:03 PM

No different than Swiss. Which I beleive has three languages also.

The dialect was a lower form of French. But that was not the point. The point was, they held onto the old world traditions.

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#107
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/09/2014 7:43 PM

I guess it was always like that in cities.

I grew up in the country and we were just Americans. You were either Protestant or Catholic, and each swore the other was going to hell.

All of us were mutts of various heritage.

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#108
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/09/2014 8:18 PM

But we were Americans first. When we found ourselves at war, the Old World was left behind and we fought for our new homeland. There were few if any "5th columnists". That is not the case with the current bunch. They are hell bent on converting us to their blasphemous ways.

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#109
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/09/2014 9:46 PM

No, no, no . . . it's the Southern Baptists who swear all the rest of us are going hell, Protestant, Catholic, or whatever.

Wasn't it Blood, Sweat, & Tears who famously sung " . . . I swear there ain't no heaven, but I pray there ain't no hell." ?

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#111
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/09/2014 10:06 PM

I hear the southern baptist were real party animals too.

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#114
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/10/2014 5:19 AM

Two things Southern Baptists don't recognise:

1) The authority of the Pope, and

2) Each other in the liquor store.

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#113
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/10/2014 5:05 AM

I didn't run into that until I lived in a small town in south Georgia. It was Baptists Vs Catholics, and they made home visits.

I don't know what happened to them. Once I started ansering the door in my underwear they stopped coming around.

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#63
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/07/2014 8:17 AM

And it was just as worthless then as now.

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#53
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/06/2014 9:23 AM

It's a common misconception that slavery was invented in America. It was actually ended in America, and the constitution and Bill of Rights laid the groundwork for it's abolition.

A little background that isn't taught in schools.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery

My working theory is that humans are essentially ungovernable in the long run.

That's a near perfect theory! America's founders felt the same, and instituted a minimalist government that was forbidden from attempting to control the population.

The current batch of idiots, and many of their predecessors didn't get the memo.

Our representative government was never intended to govern over the people.

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#57
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/07/2014 12:20 AM

Although slavery by europeans ended after second world war, due to the constitution drafted and imposed by britishers in commonwealth countries "local slavery or internal colonialism" is given to the dominant community(majority or numerical superiority) to rule minorities. Then US puts its fingers into the politics of those countries by freezing bank accounts of minorities while giving US aid including arms,training etc to rulers to crush human rights of minorities. Then democracy becomes useless & meaning less and worse than colonial rule.

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#58
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/07/2014 12:33 AM

If the US is so bad and corrupt, WHY DO SO MANY PEOPLE FROM OTHER NATIONS WANT TO GET HERE? Some risk their lives to get here. There must be something here that is better than in their countries of origin.

Don't know the exact statistics but I would bet more people want to immigrate to the USA than any other country! I'm an American and proud of it!

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#59
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/07/2014 1:00 AM

The problem is "why US/UK/USSR etc interferes in internal affairs of other countries as well as creating neighbour as another enemy who violates human rights of minorities while UN does nothing"?.

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#66
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/07/2014 8:30 AM

Quite frankly, because western civilization is the best that has ever existed. Look no further than your own recent history to see how fragile society actually is. Don't like the US? No problem try and get by for a few days without a US made, developed, or invented product or idea. Welcome to the world of polio and grass huts

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#76
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/07/2014 5:19 PM

Sri Lanka has a population of 20 million people. The US provides annual aid of $8.7 million to Sri Lanka. That amounts to $0.435 per person in aid. Where did you spend your aid? Pretty good for a country that has minimal diplomatic relationships with the US! Yes, the Sri Lankan politicians hate the USA's guts but we still keep on giving. I got no aid today but I paid taxes so you could have your aid. If I lived in destitute poverty would you help me out? That's pretty good for a country that hates us and claims they are "sucking on the hind tit" like our farmers would say. Don't bite the hand that feeds you!

From reading your rant I would bet that you hate all counties including Sri Lanka! Better watch out, anger breads ulcers. Got enough Nexium?

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/5249.htm

Bilateral Economic Relations

For 2012, Sri Lanka's exports (mainly apparel, tea, rubber, gems, and jewelry) were estimated at $9.8 billion, and imports (mainly oil, textiles, food, and machinery) were estimated at $19.1 billion. Exports to the United States, Sri Lanka's most important single-country market, were estimated at $2.2 billion for 2012, or 22% of total exports. The United States is Sri Lanka's biggest single-country market for garments, taking 40% of total garment exports. United States exports to Sri Lanka were estimated at $224 million for 2012, consisting primarily of industrial machinery, medical instruments, aircraft parts, lentils, paper, specialized fabrics and textiles for use in the garment industry, fruits, and pharmaceuticals.

Your rant also reminds me of a short guy with a short mustache who committed suicide about 69 years ago. He also had a solution for each countries woes and the world as a whole. The greedy old USA pushed money onto all the allied countries so the US could own all of them. Yes, the US provided most of the money but that "corruptness" by the US is one reason why Sri Lanka isn't part of another country known for its beer.

Finally, before you go trying to convince the US population that we are a big bad country, how about fixing your own! Could you say what I have in an open forum in Sri Lanka? If yes, they have a freshly dug grave with your name on it!

An American for many years and proud of it. It isn't perfect but it's the best in the world!

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#77
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/07/2014 6:00 PM

Wow the aid we give them is almost half of their exports. How,....... Disappointing.

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#81
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/07/2014 7:11 PM

Damn good post, Old Salt!

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#79
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/07/2014 6:38 PM

I guess that is because of the PR or marketing approach?

And in your particular application, you feel yourself as being in a comfort zone, because you made it up to a few floors of the Maslow pyramid concept. Many, however are not that "lucky".

Human values are part of the very adaptive education system and you definitely have no conflict with these.

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#62
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/07/2014 7:41 AM

We're now able to watch things unfold in a world where American leadership is absent. From where I'm sitting, it doesn't look good.

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#64
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/07/2014 8:23 AM

"The problem is "why US/UK/USSR etc interferes in internal affairs..."

When you need to blame someone else for your own internal problems, stick with the Tried 'n' True: pick a country. Any country. Doesn't matter which one you blame; any ol' country'll do just so long as it keeps your eyes off the real source of the problem: y'all.

(psst: is it working?)

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#80
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/07/2014 6:46 PM

any ol' country'll do just so long as it keeps your eyes off the real source

2 centennia is not considered old for a country.

or do you mean any oil country and real resource

It has been proven all over that technical people make no politicians.

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#44

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/06/2014 1:57 AM

Practical guide:

I think the color of the suit is very important.

Also the depth of the pockets in it.

The length of the nose can be an indication

(re: pinocchio - for lying)

But you need to find the algorithm with the

shoe size equation in it.

If you are still reading: who votes is not important.

It is who counts the votes in a model poli democratic

state.

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#56
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/06/2014 4:10 PM
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#47

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/06/2014 2:27 AM

If you don't like it, go and live somewhere else. Somewhere where it is different.

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#48

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/06/2014 2:30 AM

Politicians is there to win, not for solutions i guess. Dirty talks with politics. It's a ball game.

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#51

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/06/2014 7:52 AM

You have already ignited Fire, see the response. My comment is that your politicians will never agree to your suggestion as they will be rendered jobless.

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#54

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/06/2014 9:26 AM

William Buckley once stated that he would rather be governed by the first 400 people in the Boston Phone book, rather than the Harvard Faculty. Methinks your idea has merit.

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#55
In reply to #54

Re: Warning! POLITICS (belongs in the Break Room)

09/06/2014 12:53 PM

What would he call them? The 'A' Team?

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#61

Re: Warning! POLITICS (Belongs in the Break Room)

09/07/2014 4:06 AM

I apologize to the forum participants for the rude and condescending remarks of some of the members. You may forgive them, knowing they are engineers, and unused to the ways of the world, and current research in human function and behavior.

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#65
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (Belongs in the Break Room)

09/07/2014 8:25 AM

Are you Mr CD4? What gives you the right to apologize to anyone, for anyone but yourself? Regardless of occupation, we are human first.

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#67
In reply to #65

Re: Warning! POLITICS (Belongs in the Break Room)

09/07/2014 8:32 AM

I thought he was apologizing to me.

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#68
In reply to #61

Re: Warning! POLITICS (Belongs in the Break Room)

09/07/2014 8:43 AM

"I apologize to the forum participants for the rude and condescending remarks of some of the members."

Well, how many of you are there, then, and should I accept your apology in third- or first-person?

Please advise.

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#69
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Re: Warning! POLITICS (Belongs in the Break Room)

09/07/2014 9:01 AM

It's only me. If everyone simply agrees with me, these apologies won't be necessary.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

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#70
In reply to #61

Re: Warning! POLITICS (Belongs in the Break Room)

09/07/2014 9:37 AM

Why would you apologize to the forum, for the forum?

If, as I suspect, your apology is directed to the radical anarchist from Sri Lanka, you should go back and read the rest of his illogical. incorrect tirades against things political, of which he seems totally ignorant!

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#72
In reply to #70

Re: Warning! POLITICS (Belongs in the Break Room)

09/07/2014 11:39 AM

Those who refuse,suppress,depress human rights are anarchists. If UN keep silent human rights will never be respected by powerful people in any country supported by Superpowers.

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#73
In reply to #72

Re: Warning! POLITICS (Belongs in the Break Room)

09/07/2014 11:48 AM

From another rant of yours: "Who is terrorist?. Aleader passes resolution in UN and attack a nation(flaseflag), prevent few countries from developing nuclear weapons but allows his allies to do so & called a Democrat.Another passes legislation to spy on countrymen,take into custody,torture throw the body or burn & say govt didn't do & called President,Prime minister,Democrat,internal affair,Sovereignty of state etc. In some countries public has no voice but ruled by Communists,Police state,Military rule,Kingdom,Dictatorship but still UN membership given. When human rights are refused,ethnic cleansing takes place,people driven away from home land,having a big list of missing persons, prisoners killed,arbitary arrest/detention in undisclosed locations,racism practiced, clergy used to threaten minorities etc but if USA call the leader "clever" what can mankind do?. Why don't we replace UN with a meaningful "Peoples Forum" representing all major races(more than 50 million worldwide population)?."

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#74
In reply to #73

Re: Warning! POLITICS (Belongs in the Break Room)

09/07/2014 2:26 PM

Maybe he's a drinker.

The worldwide population is over 50 million? Dang. That's a lot.

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#75
In reply to #74

Irrational Indignation

09/07/2014 3:16 PM

Or, maybe bad ganja?

Or both?

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#112
In reply to #74

Re: Warning! POLITICS (Belongs in the Break Room)

09/10/2014 4:37 AM

Geert Wilders is a Dutch Member of Parliament.

In a generation or two, the US will ask itself: "Who lost Europe?"

Here is the speech of Geert Wilders, Chairman, Party for Freedom, the Netherlands, at the Four Seasons, New York, introducing an Alliance of Patriots and announcing the Facing Jihad Conference in Jerusalem.
Dear Friends,
Thank you very much for inviting me. I come to America with a mission. All is not well in the old world.
There is a tremendous danger looming, and it is very difficult to be optimistic.
We might be in the final stages of the Islamization of Europe. This not only is a clear and present danger to the future of Europe itself, it is a threat to America and the sheer survival of the West. The United States as the last bastion of Western civilization, facing an Islamic Europe.
First I will describe the situation on the ground in Europe. Then, I will say a few things about Islam. To close I will tell you about a meeting in Jerusalem.
The Europe you know is changing.

You have probably seen the landmarks. But in all of these cities, sometimes a few blocks away from your tourist destination, there is another world. It is the world of the parallel society created by Muslim mass-migration.
All throughout Europe a new reality is rising: entire Muslim neighborhoods where very few indigenous people reside or are even seen. And if they are, they might regret it. This
goes for the police as well. It's the world of head scarves, where women walk around in figureless tents, with baby strollers and a group of children. Their husbands, or slaveholders if you prefer, walk three steps ahead. With mosques on many street corners. The shops have signs you and I cannot read. You will be hard-pressed to find any economic activity. These are Muslim ghettos controlled by religious fanatics.These are Muslim neighborhoods, andthey are mushrooming in every city across Europe.These are the building-blocks for territorial control of increasingly larger portions of Europe, street by street, neighborhood by neighborhood, city by city.
There are now thousands of mosques throughout Europe. With larger congregations than there are in churches. And in every European city there are plans to build super-mosques that will dwarf every church in the region. Clearly, the signal is: we rule.
Many European cities are already one-quarter Muslim: just take Amsterdam, Marseilleand Malmoin Sweden and of course Belgium !. In many cities the majority of the under-18 population is Muslim. Paris is now surrounded by a ring of Muslim neighborhoods. Mohammed is the most popular name among boys in many cities.
In some elementary schools in Amsterdam the word " farm" can no longer be mentioned, because that would also mean mentioning the pig, and that would be an insult to Muslims.

Many state schools in Belgium and Denmark only serve halal food to all pupils. In once-tolerant Amsterdam gays are beaten up almost exclusively by Muslims. Non-Muslim women routinely hear 'whore, whore'. Satellite dishes are not pointed to local TV stations, but to stations in the country of origin.
In France school teachers are advised to avoid authors deemed offensive to Muslims, including Voltaire and Diderot; the same is increasingly true of Darwin. The history of the Holocaust can no longer be taught because of Muslim sensitivity.
In England sharia courts are now officially part of the British legal system. Many neighborhoods in France are no-go areas for women without head scarves. Last week a man almost diedafter being beaten up by Muslims in Brussels, because he was drinking during the Ramadan.
Jews are fleeing France in record numbers, on the run for the worst wave of anti-Semitism since World War II. French is now commonly spoken on the streets of Tel Aviv and Netanya, Israel. I could go on forever with stories like this. Stories about Islamization.
A total of fifty-four million Muslims now live in Europe. San Diego University recently calculated that a staggering 25 percent of the population in Europe will be Muslim just 12 years from now. Bernhard Lewis has predicted a Muslim majority by the end of this century.
Now these are just numbers. And the numbers would not be threatening if the Muslim-immigrants had a strong desire to assimilate. But there are few signs of that. The Pew ResearchCenter reported that half of French Muslims see their loyalty to Islam as greater than their loyalty to France. One-third of French Muslims do not object to suicide attacks. The British Centre for Social Cohesion reported that one-third of British Muslim students are in favor of a worldwide caliphate. Muslims demand what they call 'respect'. And this is how we give them respect. We have Muslimofficial state holidays.
The Christian-Democratic attorney general is willing to accept sharia in the Netherlands if there is a Muslim majority.We have cabinet members with passports from Morocco and Turkey.
Muslim demands are supported by unlawful behavior, ranging from petty crimes and random violence, for example against ambulance workers and bus drivers, to small-scale riots. Paris has seen its uprising in the low-income suburbs, the banlieus. I call the perpetrators 'settlers'. Because that is what they are. They do not come to integrate into our societies; they come to integrate our society into their Dar-al-Islam. Therefore, they are settlers.
Much of this street violence I mentioned is directed exclusively against non-Muslims, forcing many native people to leave their neighborhoods, their cities, their countries. Moreover, Muslims are now a swing vote not to be ignored.
The second thing you need to know is the importance of Mohammed the prophet. His behavior is an example to all Muslims and cannot be criticized. Now, if Mohammed had been a man of peace, let us say like Ghandi and Mother Theresa wrapped in one, there would be no problem. But Mohammed was a warlord, a mass murderer, a pedophile, and had several marriages - at the same time, before he repented. Islamic tradition tells us how he fought in battles, how he had his enemies murdered and even had prisoners of war executed. Mohammed himself slaughtered the Jewish tribe of Banu Qurayza. If it is good for Islam, it is good. If it is bad for Islam, it is bad.
Let no one fool you about Islam being a religion. Sure, it has a god, and a here-after, and 72 virgins. But in its essence Islam is a political ideology. It is a system that lays down detailed rules for society and the life of every person. Islam wants to dictate every aspect of life. Islam means 'submission'. Islam is not compatible with freedom and democracy, because what it strives for is sharia. If you want to compare Islam to anything, compare it to communism or national-socialism, these are all totalitarian ideologies.
Now you know why Winston Churchill called Islam 'the most retrograde force in the world', and why he compared Mein Kampf to the Quran. The public has wholeheartedly accepted the Palestinian narrative, and sees Israel as the aggressor. I have lived in this country and visited it dozens of times. I support Israel. First, because it is the Jewish homeland after two thousand years of exile up to and including Auschwitz. Second because it is a democracy. And third because Israel is our first line of defense.
This tiny country is situated on the fault line of jihad, frustrating Islam's territorial advance. Israel is facing the front lines of jihad, like Kashmir, Kosovo, the Philippines, Southern Thailand, Darfur in Sudan, Lebanon, and Aceh in Indonesia. Israel is simply in the way. The same way West-Berlin was during the Cold War.
The war against Israel is not a war against Israel. It is a war against the West. It is jihad. Israel is simply receiving the blows that are meant for all of us. If there would have been no Israel, Islamic imperialism would have found other venues to release its energy and its desire for conquest. Thanks to Israeli parents who send their children to the army and lay awake at night, parents in Europe and America can sleep well and dream, unaware of the dangers looming.
Many in Europe argue in favor of abandoning Israel in order to address the grievances of our Muslim minorities. But if Israel were, God forbid, to go down, it would not bring any solace to the West. It would not mean our Muslim minorities would all of a sudden change their behavior, and accept our values. On the contrary, the end of Israel would give enormous encouragement to the forces of Islam. They would, and rightly so, see the demise of Israel as proof that the West is weak, and doomed. The end of Israel would not mean the end of our problems with Islam, but only the beginning. It would mean the start of the final battle for world domination. If they can get Israel, they can get everything. So-called journalists volunteer to label any and all critics of Islam as a 'right-wing extremists' or 'racists'. In my country, the Netherlands, 60 percent of the population now sees the mass immigration of Muslims as the number one policy mistake since World War II. And another 60 percent sees Islam as the biggest threat. Yet there is a greater danger than terrorist attacks, the scenario of America as the last man standing.The lights may go out in Europe faster than you can imagine. An Islamic Europe means a Europe withoutfreedom and democracy, an economic wasteland, an intellectual nightmare, and a loss of military might for America - as its allies will turn into enemies, enemies with atomic bombs. With an Islamic Europe, it would be up to America alone to preserve the heritage of Rome, Athens and Jerusalem ...
Dear friends, liberty is the most precious of gifts. My generation never had to fight for this freedom, it was offered to us on a silver platter, by people who fought for it with their lives. All throughout Europe, American cemeteries remind us of the young boys who never made it home, andwhose memory we cherish. My generation does not own this freedom; we are merely its custodians. We can only hand over this hard won liberty to Europe's children in the same state in which it was offered to us. We cannot strike a deal with mullahs and imams. Future generations would never forgive us. We cannot squander our liberties. We simply do not have the right to do so.
We have to take the necessary action now to stop this Islamic stupidity from destroying the free world that we know.
Please take the time to read and understand what is written here, please send it to every free person that you know - it is so very important.

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