Previous in Forum: GMAW-S for LAS Root Service Experience   Next in Forum: Manufacturing
Close

Comments Format:






Change Mode
Close

Subscribe to Discussion:

CR4 allows you to "subscribe" to a discussion
so that you can be notified of new comments to
the discussion via email.

Close

Rating Vote:







Add Vote
17 comments
Rate this Comments: Nested
LivelyDW
Member

Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 5
Good Answers: 1

Weld Failed NDE Twice!

10/01/2014 8:54 AM

Does any code (API or ASME) state that if a weld fails NDE for a second time that the entire weld must be completely removed? We have an inspector stating that all 130" of a weld must be removed due to a 4" spot that failed 2 shots. I have no issues with cutting it out. I'm just looking for where it is stated in the code.
Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: API 1104 ASME Section IX
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Whitephone
Guru

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mineral wells Tx
Posts: 630
Good Answers: 34
#1

Re: Weld failed NDE twice!

10/01/2014 9:21 AM

According with What? Pipe line (Api 1104), Pressure vessels (Asme VIII), pipe spools (Asme B31.3/ Asme B31.1), Tanks storage (Api 650), pipe manufacturing (Api 5L)..........?

All have different criteria.

WP
Register to Reply
Crabtree
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Commissariat de Police, Nouvions, occupied France, 1942.
Posts: 2599
Good Answers: 77
#2

Re: Weld failed NDE twice!

10/01/2014 9:53 AM

Ask the inspector! Good grief...

__________________
 Good moaning!
Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
LivelyDW
Member

Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 5
Good Answers: 1
#4
In reply to #2

Re: Weld failed NDE twice!

10/01/2014 10:39 AM

The inspector has been asked. At first it was an "unwritten customer requirement". Then it was B31. Then API 1104. This morning it was API5L. I have yet been able to verify. All welding for the project is supposed to be to API 1104 or ASME Section IX. We are welding to ASME Section IX. Asking the inspector is the reason I have the issue. He is unable to produce even an internal customer document to support his request.
Register to Reply
Crabtree
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Commissariat de Police, Nouvions, occupied France, 1942.
Posts: 2599
Good Answers: 77
#8
In reply to #4

Re: Weld failed NDE twice!

10/02/2014 3:10 AM

So why didn't you say so in the original post?

__________________
 Good moaning!
Register to Reply Score 2 for Off Topic
3
PFR
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Virginia, Georgia, Idaho
Posts: 1079
Good Answers: 30
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Weld failed NDE twice!

10/02/2014 7:44 AM

He did.

"I have no issues with cutting it out. I'm just looking for where it is stated in the code."

__________________
 PFR Pressure busts pipes. Maybe you need better pipes.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Go to Next Good Answer
LivelyDW
Member

Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 5
Good Answers: 1
#11
In reply to #8

Re: Weld failed NDE twice!

10/02/2014 8:19 AM

I did not state this in the original post because it is not relevant to the question at hand. The original question was simple. Is this practice found anywhere in any code that anyone is aware of? Although I appreciate the advise on dealing with the inspector, that situation has already been addressed and we maintain a good relationship with the inspector and the customer. I am simply trying to find an answer to a question. If you have any useful information then by all means, please share.
Register to Reply
2
texasron
Guru
Technical Fields - Project Managers & Project Engineers - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Texas.Baytown
Posts: 697
Good Answers: 26
#3

Re: Weld Failed NDE Twice!

10/01/2014 10:10 AM

This is typical for any weld reject. Have a UT inspector run a lamination scan around the area rejected. If a lamination or center line segregation exists then reject the plate. You will never get a proper weld due to LOF (Lack Of Fusion) due to out gassing of the defect.

__________________
 If you want to know how well a broom works you do not ask the guy selling the broom or the guy who designed the broom, you ask the guy using the broom.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Go to Next Good Answer
3
ozzb
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - Old Salt Hobbies - CNC - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Rosedale, Maryland USA
Posts: 5197
Good Answers: 266
#5

Re: Weld Failed NDE Twice!

10/01/2014 12:37 PM

When you want to complete this project? Sounds like no time soon.

Even if there is no code. Your going to argue with the inspector over procedure and how he wants it done.

Even if you did find something you may open a whole new can of worms. The inspector where he may have let you slide with some very minor code discrepancies. Go back and kick them out. Hey your the one that wants to follow the code.

__________________
 Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving in a pretty, pristine body but rather to come sliding in sideways, all used up and exclaiming, "Wow, what a ride!"
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Go to Next Good Answer
5
LivelyDW
Member

Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 5
Good Answers: 1
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Weld Failed NDE Twice!

10/01/2014 1:09 PM

Perhaps I have not conveyed myself properly. We have no intention of arguing this with the inspector and have already begun the removal of the weld. I have learned that with the customer's inspectors you have to choose your battles wisely. Treat them fairly and they will usually do the same. There is no sense in delaying the entire project to get out of 1 shifts worth of work. I am simply trying to educate myself, and I have had no luck in any of the codes finding the basis for this procedure.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 5)
Go to Next Good Answer
4
Peterweld
Active Contributor

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: I have an African dream, to sit under the clear skies,in the bush, with a campfire with my dear wife as company
Posts: 20
Good Answers: 1
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Weld Failed NDE Twice!

10/02/2014 2:41 AM

I agree, do not open a can worms, the customer inspector is assisting you to produce quality welding. a suggestion that always works better, always do your own investigation/NDT before you present your products . Customer confidence in your product.Refer ASME VIII div 1 under UW 2 to UW 11 (pages 105 to 109 address joint category and extend to RT)

__________________
 I would like to be me in my wood and fabric Jodel D11,with my best friend Mike
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 4)
Go to Next Good Answer
2
ozzb
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - Old Salt Hobbies - CNC - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Rosedale, Maryland USA
Posts: 5197
Good Answers: 266
#10
In reply to #6

Re: Weld Failed NDE Twice!

10/02/2014 7:53 AM

Codes do not always tell you how. Just what the test results should be and how to test.

__________________
 Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving in a pretty, pristine body but rather to come sliding in sideways, all used up and exclaiming, "Wow, what a ride!"
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Go to Next Good Answer
3
Phys
Guru
Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - EE from the the Wilds of Pa.

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: middle of nowhere, Pennsylvania
Posts: 2603
Good Answers: 63
#17
In reply to #6

Re: Weld Failed NDE Twice!

10/02/2014 5:03 PM

Your inspector is the "code". We have the same problem with UL inspections. There are always "grey" areas in any code and one inspector may allow something and the next one won't, so you just smile and obey. Even worse is EPA. Try to get one of them to show you where it is written - do as stated or be shut down with them.

__________________
 Remember when reading my post: (-1)^½ m (2)^½
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
No more Good Answers. Go to first "Almost" Good Answer
texasron
Guru
Technical Fields - Project Managers & Project Engineers - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Texas.Baytown
Posts: 697
Good Answers: 26
#12

Re: Weld Failed NDE Twice!

10/02/2014 8:54 AM

Again, if there is a lamination or center line segregation in the plate in that area you can cut out the weld, re-weld till the cows come home and it will still have LOF. This is my business and i have been in this field greater than 40 years. We make the steel that is going into the pipe,vessel,ship,bridge,building and whatever. True lamination's are rare, but center line is a problem part of the continuous casting process and once its in the plate it never leaves.

__________________
 If you want to know how well a broom works you do not ask the guy selling the broom or the guy who designed the broom, you ask the guy using the broom.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Go to Next "Almost" Good Answer
LivelyDW
Member

Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 5
Good Answers: 1
#13
In reply to #12

Re: Weld Failed NDE Twice!

10/02/2014 9:03 AM

Thank you for the information. I have conveyed this to our UT technicians and they have planned to examine this pipe.
Register to Reply
PFR
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Virginia, Georgia, Idaho
Posts: 1079
Good Answers: 30
#14
In reply to #12

Re: Weld Failed NDE Twice!

10/02/2014 9:28 AM

Are you saying that in addition to failing to point out the specific code, the inspector is also wrong to require the entire weld to be cut and redone, because if a weld inspection results in multiple failures, it is likely a laminate or center line segregation, and that there is no remedy other than replacing the component?

__________________
 PFR Pressure busts pipes. Maybe you need better pipes.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
No more "Almost" Good Answers.
2
texasron
Guru
Technical Fields - Project Managers & Project Engineers - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Texas.Baytown
Posts: 697
Good Answers: 26
#15
In reply to #14

Re: Weld Failed NDE Twice!

10/02/2014 2:57 PM

Yeppers! A great many companies do not order the UT test in whatever they are building due to the added cost. As these slabs come from all over the world we do in house inspection , at our own cost, to assure that we are getting good base material.

__________________
 If you want to know how well a broom works you do not ask the guy selling the broom or the guy who designed the broom, you ask the guy using the broom.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Go to Next Good Answer
PFR
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Virginia, Georgia, Idaho
Posts: 1079
Good Answers: 30
#16
In reply to #15

Re: Weld Failed NDE Twice!

10/02/2014 5:01 PM

Thanks, tex

__________________
 PFR Pressure busts pipes. Maybe you need better pipes.
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 17 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Crabtree (2); LivelyDW (4); ozzb (2); Peterweld (1); PFR (3); Phys (1); texasron (3); Whitephone (1)

Previous in Forum: GMAW-S for LAS Root Service Experience   Next in Forum: Manufacturing

Advertisement

Got Something to Say?
Ask a Question
Start a Discussion

Search this Forum
Manufacturing:
Go

CR4 Sections
Aerospace
BioMech & BioMed
Chemical & Material Science
Civil Engineering
Communications & Electronics
Education and Engineering Careers
Electrical Engineering
General Discussion
Instrumentation
Manufacturing
Mechanical Engineering
New Technologies & Research
Software & Programming
Sustainable Engineering
Transportation

Site Directories
Forum Directory
Blog Directory
User Group Directory
RSS Feeds

CR4 Rules of Conduct
CR4 FAQ
Site Glossary

Who's Online (97 right now)
Show Members
Advertisement