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Electrical Maintenance Help

11/24/2014 4:28 AM

I was wondering if anyone could help me get short notes about Electrical Faults Diagnosis, and Troubleshooting in Factories Procedures. Thank you.

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#1

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/24/2014 4:37 AM

Please note that any electrical work has to be carried out to the set standard by a certified electrician.

Procedures should be prepared prior to the work and reviewed by a qualified person.

The question seems to be pretty broad. If you was to offer some more specific questions you should be able to expand your knowledge in this matter.

If in doubt ask the factory elctrician!

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#4
In reply to #1

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/24/2014 5:01 AM

Well I'm a Fresh Graduated Electrical Engineer, and I'm going to be A maintenance manager in a Factory. I need to prepare my self well for this position. so what can I do?

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/24/2014 5:12 AM

I'd ask your father or uncle or whoever it was who hired you.

They must have some idea of your qualifications, or lack thereof.

You will obviously need a mentor, since you seem lost and incapable of gathering any relevant material yourself.

You have a job now. You will be expected to gather this information on your own.

Research the subject, as I said.

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#7
In reply to #4

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/24/2014 9:06 AM

Oh my, there's a lot of foolishness at site.

The science and technical aspect can be learned by self studies of electrical devices (how they work and local and international standards or guidelines you should follow) present in the factory.

Be often around here at CR4 forum. There's a lot of help aside from foolishness around.

Invest more in learning and seminars.

The engineering is easy, but to tell you frankly people are not and politics is not as well.

If you let people know where your weakness are, probability is high on fooling you around. You need theory to get acquainted with the real world.

It's easy to destroy and cause malfunction to electrical devices, one of this for example is loosening of terminal lugs or screws of wiring connections.

Well, a good character and a real person would guarantee your smooth operation.

Most rank file are pissed with inconsiderate and ungracious Boss.

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#11
In reply to #7

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/24/2014 10:55 AM

First I want to thank you for the very helpful reply

Second I red a good procedure about Motor's Faults Tracing, and Troubleshooting It's:

If it's not overload we test in dummy Circuit or Life Circuit as follow

1.Disconnecting the motor, and measuring Resistance between Phases, and between phases, and Neutral if it's very small then it's S.c

2. The same like 1 between motor's terminals

3.Measuring phases voltages on C.B's Entrance the connecting C.B and Measuring Voltage in the opposite terminals to be sure It's not damaged C.B while the motor is Disconnected

4. the same as 3 with Contactor after manual connecting , O.L if not integral with C.B, and Cable terminals from motor side

5.After Fault clearing , during motor running we measure I, V to avoid voltage drop, and overload

Now I wonder if you or anyone else can provide me with any Engineering, or Technical Materials contains testing procedures like this for all Electrical Equipment in Factories

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#8
In reply to #4

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/24/2014 10:15 AM

Your job is to organize and manage people not perform the execution of maintenance work.

First get to know the people you will be working with in other departments and then those reporting to you by reviewing their past performance reviews to find out what you have inherited.

Meet with each individual "one-on-one" and ask them what they expect from you and what the issues are in their department and in the overall plant systems.

Listen attentively to each and every person while taking good notes for future reference and planned action.

Identify and prioritize personal and plant operating/maintenance issues that are the most pressing and important then meet with your upper management and Human Resources to make sure you have their support before making any changes to policy or procedures.

It is best to make a minimum of number of changes at any one point in time. (Give people and the system time to adjust and provide you feedback.)

As your career progresses take the time not only to read, study, and question operation & maintenance methods and procedures but also by going out into the plant often to walk around and observe what is really going on while asking pertinent questions of those that are doing the work on a daily basis.

Do not get in a hurry to master the position as more than 95% of humans require 4-6 years of daily exposure and "hands-on" experience to become competent in whatever occupation they are entering.

Remember that a poor decision made in haste yields a lifetime of regret.

Good luck!

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/24/2014 10:28 AM

not a bad response

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#12
In reply to #8

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/24/2014 11:15 AM

It's really a helpful reply but I will be Responsible For Teaching Technicians what to do when they Fail to diagnose the fault

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/24/2014 1:10 PM

Your responsibility is NOT to "teach your technicians". You are fresh out of school, and it may be you bring a pocket full of theory to your assignment. But the technicians that you will be responsible for have far more practical experience with and knowledge of the equipment and systems in this facility than you do.

In the event that your technicians encounter a problem that they can't solve, it is your responsibility to locate someone who can, and learn from them. As one of our esteemed members so often suggests "make the phone call"

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#16
In reply to #12

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/24/2014 8:44 PM

How would you even be able to? You are asking the how here in the internet. If you was meant to teach the guys they would be better off to stick you right into the electrical work first so you can learnt he basics.

I have seen many times people trying to teach things they dont understand, which never works out, ever.

So step back and think:

1. is it really a managing position you are after?

2. Not having been exposed much to the foundations of electrical engineering how confident are you that you can lead people, protect them in their work by making up save procedures?

3. How would you know the technician failed other than after the big bang?

4. Do you really want to stick your head out for this yet?

Every Electrical Engieer starts small. Not every engineer becomes a manager but as a manager you will need trustworthy people on your side that know the technical aspects which you have to counterpart with effective people skills and that is if you did not master all the technical aspects of you managing position.

I wish you good luck and might add - you will need it!

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#30
In reply to #12

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/26/2014 12:15 PM

This position is leaning more towards a LEAD MAINTENANCE TECHNICIAN rather than a MANAGER. If you are unable to verify your employees work, how can you perform anything that relates to maintenance?

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#32
In reply to #30

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/26/2014 2:18 PM

Then again, a lot of places like to have a lot of 'non-managing' managers, either to make people feel important with the titles, or to allow them to classify them as 'exempt employees' for the Overtime parts of the Labor Laws. (That last part is technically illegal, and can get the employer in a lot of trouble if caught.)

I remember the old Blockbuster Video chain (and the Hollywood Video chain that sprung up to compete) had the tradition of never having 'workers,' the 'lowest raining' person in the store was an Assistant Manager. That's right, every pimply-faced teen working at Blockbuster was technically the 'Manager On Duty,' and was lured in by what looked like decent pay, until they discovered the 10-20 hours (unpaid) Overtime they'd have to put in per week

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#10
In reply to #4

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/24/2014 10:33 AM

To add up also, don't forget to question yourself, why and what's the purpose or main goal of the management you are put in there.

Simply, to deliver a minimized maintenance cost and trouble free operation.

You are a management tool as an energy-money saving device. Don't forget that, then you are good to go..the road is pretty interesting for those who thirst more knowledge and experience, I should say. Be mastered by you own interest and surely it will open you up to a bigger and great opportunities.

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#14
In reply to #4

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/24/2014 1:44 PM

If you want to learn about electrical maintenance testing methods, requirements, and specifications, go to the InterNational Electrical Testing Association (NETA) and buy yourself a copy of their Maintenance Testing Specification (MTS 2011). Then spend some time digesting it.

http://www.netaworld.org/

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#18
In reply to #4

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/24/2014 10:10 PM

First off your technicians are going to have you for lunch, skilled trades take it very personally when untrained, young know it alls invade their space as a MAINTENANCE MANAGER and try to save the world with a skill set that is abysmal at best.

If you have not walked the walk do not expect ANY help from your techs as they have earned the stripes so to say and do not take kindly to someone who has no idea what they do for a living coming in to manage them.

Do yourself a favor and ask that you not be thrust into a situation where lives are in the balance, and they are, as you will fail, not necessarily because you are a bad manager but because others more highly qualified for the job should be in there and your techs know it.

Maintenance technicians can f#*% your world up and you'll never know it, and we have all done it. So beware of this position!

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#19
In reply to #4

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/24/2014 10:52 PM

I usually give brief zinger replies but I'll do more for you.

1st, I think you're going to quickly fail.

there are no "short notes" that will substitute for years of experience and knowledge.

so you need to gain knowledge on two rather big fronts.

you have no clue about all the portfolio of equipment you'll be responsible for. given enough time it will come but learning curves have a price.

your most difficult challenge will be learning on the job how to manage people, some of whom might be older than your parents.

the classic mistake here is to tale the attitude of."my way or the hwy". if you do. read WT's comments again.

have you been brought in to fire a bad crew, are you just expendable to upper management? I'd take the job slowly and avoid pissing anyone off for a while. attempt to treat your techs as assets...they'll make or break you

good luck, you'll be needing a boatload of it.

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#2

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/24/2014 4:45 AM

Any factory's procedure will be written by someone and approved by someone in the organisation, Murphy. You need to hunt down these people within the factory, and ask them your questions directly.

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#22
In reply to #2

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/25/2014 9:34 AM

"Any factory's procedure will be written by someone and approved by someone in the organisation, Murphy."

Your statement is a tiny bit overbroad, It should start, "Any halfway-decent factory's procedure will be..."

There are still plants out there that rely heavily on 'tribal knowledge' and 'oral tradition' for their procedures. They're generally the smaller, 'family-owned' plants, and by some strange coincidence, they tend to have a higher than average rate of reportable injuries/incidents.

Not everyone likes to do all the 'reading and writing' do 'codify' (write down) the procedures, train people on the procedures AS WRITTEN, and follow up with the documentation to show that the procedures are being followed. You can even find that amongst companies that make custom machines for other companies, the 'manuals' they send along are little more than 'standard boilerplate,' generic warnings and guidelines for the power sources ('Don't stick your hand in the control panel when the machine has power, don't stick you hand into moving parts when the machine is cycling, don't attempt to start the machine if it or you are standing in a puddle of water') and half-written instructions that might apply to the machine in question, or may have been copied and pasted from the manual for another machine entirely.

From what information has been given by the original poster, I would guess that either A) he was given a 'manager' job my a parent or uncle as a way to continue giving him an 'allowance' under the guise of a paycheck, as a way to set him up as a 'potential heir' to the company when that time comes, or B) he is being set up to fail and be the scapegoat for whatever problems the poorly-run plant cannot sweep under the run this time.

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#24
In reply to #2

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/25/2014 2:37 PM

Only large and/or safety and financial conscious plants have written maintenance procedures. Those that are there are most often administrative and not "how to test, repair or install something". The bean counters dictate this since they think it is a waste of time and therefore money.

For these facilities the standard procedures are:

1- Give the job to the mechanic most knowledgeable about the equipment.

2- Give the job to the mechanic most knowledgeable about the trade.

3- Give the job to the mechanic most cross trained in other trades, electrical being one of them.

4- Give it to the kid who just graduated from vocational high school (usually someone's nephew)

5- Delegate it to the junior engineer who usually knows nothing about that type of equipment

6- Go do it yourself because the plant manager is screaming about lost production time and firing some people (and maybe you).

7- Pull out the manufacturer's installation, operation and repair manual. This is a male thing so it is last.

If you have any brains about the equipment you will put yourself higher on the list (if a non-union shop) and show them how this type of subject should be handled. If a non-union shop you help the mechanic or he helps you make the repairs. Nothing beats hands on experience, the college of hard knocks!

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#3

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/24/2014 4:45 AM

Google can.

Ask her.

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#6

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/24/2014 8:40 AM

there are no "short notes", you actually need to possess knowledge.

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#15

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/24/2014 3:17 PM

There are electrical troubleshooting software programs available for purchase.

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#17

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/24/2014 8:54 PM

You're best bet is to walk the plant from where the raw materials come in to where the finished goods go out, and everything in between. Make a note of the big pieces of equipment and find the files on them, read them, and start memorizing everything you can. Once you have a big picture of how the process flows you can start investigating the subsystems. Learn it from the ground up on your own and you'll be in much better shape than getting bits and pieces fed to you.

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#20

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/24/2014 11:55 PM

Hello and welcome.

The first question to ask in relation to any reported problem is "Is it turned on?"

The second question to ask is "Is it plugged in?"

The third question to ask is "Was it working yesterday?"

The next question is "What exactly is happening different than you expect?"

Then ask "When did it last work?" or "When did this symptom appear?"

The answers to these simple questions will often indicate the nature of the problem and what is necessary to fix it.

In a properly designed factory, the "engineering" work has already been done (load balance for phases, capacity of transformers, conductor diameters for voltage drop and current etc.) and you will be chasing "what has changed?" to determine the next steps.

By the way, in a factory of 350 staff, questions 1 and 2 solved almost 70% of initial calls to maintenance over a three year timeframe.

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#23
In reply to #20

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/25/2014 9:45 AM

"By the way, in a factory of 350 staff, questions 1 and 2 solved almost 70% of initial calls to maintenance over a three year timeframe."

Just goes to show, when it comes to personnel and payroll, you get what you pay for. You keep line-worker wages rock-bottom low, and only the people too stupid or lazy to think for themselves will stick around.

More plants need to look at the idea of using 'work-study' programs to fill the low-tier positions. Yes, it means six half-shifts a day do manage, but you'll be getting college kids, people already in the mindset to learn new things, and you'll be exposing them to the 'modern factory,' showing them that it's not the dark, dingy, dangerous job their grandparents had. Yes, you may need to expand the cafeteria a little to get more 'study space,' and you may end up with the managers 'wasting' a hour or two a week helping someone understand a homework problem, but you're helping these students get a taste of the real world of manufacturing, and they're more likely to come back to you when they're looking for their post-graduate employment.

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#25
In reply to #23

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/25/2014 11:43 PM

Thanks for what seems rather sharp feedback.

In the three years covered, we moved from employing around 150 up to the 350. Staff were being moved between sections and the new staff were not necessarily "the pick of the bunch" but they were the best available.

That three years was what it took to train them away from a "learned dependance" to being able to perform significant troubleshooting on their own and very deftly describe symptoms, frequency of observation and other very meaningful information about plant issues. They were progressively trained in programming (not just program selection) of PLC's and interpretation of limit switches and mimic panels for the lines they were on.

We are around 160km from nearest higher education institution, but we did contract training institutions to come to site and present to staff in front line management, Advanced manufacturing techniques, public speaking, mathematics and statistics, problem solving, computer skills and such. Many of these programs were run annually for over 10 years.

The cafeteria didn't need expanding. It was 25m x 45m undercover plus double that outside with shelters and benches. In fact we installed 10 internet terminals for staff to use during lunch breaks and outside work hours. There were also some games areas and meals were provided "at cost" as the company paid the canteen staff there a salary and all running and repair costs.

We did run vacation programs for uni students and had arrangements with local senior schools for students to come and do work placement and training on site.

Unfortunately, the reduced sales of "F" series trucks in the USA (Our GFC impact) meant rationalisation of our parent company and our site was closed to relocate work to another site for political reasons.

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#27
In reply to #25

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/26/2014 9:15 AM

Pardon me if my comments seemed a bit harsh, my point of reference and intended audience was the American plants, who tend to treat personnel as a replaceable commodity, like floor wax. When companies don't even over their 'entry-level' (mindless grunt-work)positions publicly, and only hire through 'temp agencies,' You know they're looking to may minimum wage at MOST, and the employees are treated just like floor wax: walked all over and then replaced when they're 'worn out' (or asking about a raise).

It's sad to say, but in many parts of this once-(if ever)-great nation the employer-employee relations still mirror the Plantation Days, and that is simply inexcusable.

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#21

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/24/2014 11:58 PM

Check at www.bin95.com, there are quite good training materials for electrical troubleshooting, good luck...

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#26

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/26/2014 4:48 AM

I want to clarify that:

1.I'm going to be 'maintenance Manger' in a very small Factory so I will act as A very small Engineer and A team leader for small Technicians

2.When I got Engineering training in one of the big Factories the maintenance manager taught me the maintenance procedure that I mentioned before so I thought that I can get the material of procedures like that

Now I understand that their is no material for procedures like that and you provided me with the basic knowledge for management

Thanks all

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#28
In reply to #26

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/26/2014 9:17 AM

Good luck, hope you do well.

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#33
In reply to #28

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/28/2014 3:15 AM

Thank you

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#31
In reply to #26

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/26/2014 1:37 PM

"A team leader for small technicians" ??Sorry, I couldn't let that one go by

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#34
In reply to #26

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/30/2014 12:46 AM

Actually there is material you seek out there Alex, it is just that most don't know that, thus the many unprofessional replies and naysayers. It is true, fresh out of school, stepping into a leadership position will come with some resistance. You are already experiencing some of it here in the is forum with some of the post by those very personalities types you will face. But just the fact you thought of, and attempt to learn some of that real world procedures your team will be using via interaction in forums and internet searches, shows good leadership.

It is common and smart that a maintenance managers and leaders know as much about their people's job as time permits. Real world techniques and procedures have been document. You do not have to wait until you have accumulated years of trial and errors, to gain all real world application knowledge.

Some Real-world Maintenance Policies and procedures can be obtained at link. The author has templates in word and excel so you can quickly modify for whatever company you are working for. If you want to gains years of electrical troubleshooting skills in just days. Articles are a great source too, like managing PLCs in your facility (some applies to all automation), and electrical PM and world-class maintenance managers for example.

Don't let the naysayers discourage you Alex, you are to be commended for wanting to research all you can on the internet to know more about the jobs people you will manage are doing. I would also recommend you network on LinkedIn, in maintenance management groups. Because professionals there are not anonymous, they tend to be more professional in their replies. (you don't have people hiding under the bridge poking at you because they can with anonymity.) :(

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#35
In reply to #34

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/30/2014 5:58 AM

This is really helpful response Thank you very much

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Location: Lost Wages Nevada
Posts: 1578
Good Answers: 54
#29

Re: Electrical Maintenance Help

11/26/2014 12:11 PM

I find it difficult to believe that you have just graduated with your EE Degree and are now being hired as a Maintenance Manager. In no way does that degree give you any experience in managing people.

  1. Do you have any experience in automated machinery maintenance?
  2. Do you have any experience in managing people?
  3. How many people will you be managing?
  4. It appears that you do not have any experience in doing the work you have been hired to do. I hope you have an employer that is patient while you learn at their expense!
__________________
Though it does seem he frequently has a Swiss Army knife or Leatherman and a roll of duct tape with him.
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