2001 Cavalier 2.2L Will Not Fire with Starter Fluid

I neglected to mention that I tested the secondary side of the coils. Book says they should be between 5K and 10K and they were both around 5.5K. I couldn't check the primary side because I didn't have a small enough socket with me to remove them. I read somewhere that the bolts are 9/32" so I am bringing my small 1/4" set with me so I can check the primary side of the coils.

Cavalier's wow this brings back a nightmare for me... Check compression, then I would look at the plug wires, Check for codes from the computer. (mine showed no codes) It was as if the computer didn't know the engine had a problem only that it was not on. My problem on my little treasure was the crankshaft sensor, Also the camshaft sensor was replaced. On my gem I had to remove the front right wheel to access the Crankshaft sensor through the steering arm hole. It seems the magnetics on these sensors have a useful life until they drop to a point of no operation. Mine was intermitent for 3 months until I just started replacing timing parts and the computer none of which were broken. That is until i stumbled on the crankshaft sensor, Also the camshaft sensor. Ran great for years after that. Mission Impossible.... Good Luck Jim!

Rhetorical question: YOU are working on your married son's car?

This car has a timing belt that may have slipped a cog.

Check with a timing light if you have one. I don't know how. I drive big V-8's and gave my timing light away, just as I got my only vehicle with settable time running. Go figure.

Cavaliers are known to die for any reason one can imagine and many unimaginable ones as well.

Look at some forums, and here, and see if this has happened to anyone else od if this is unknown fault # 2,436,492.

Check that timing belt.

Probably not related to your problem, but some years ago my teenage (at the time) son came home with my Toyota 4-runner (4 cylinder) with the same story. Next morning we went out to investigate the problem and discovered a 6" hole in the crank case where a connecting rod parted company with the engine. How the hell he managed to drive it 12 miles home like that, I will never know.

so it wasn't cheap gas making all that knocking??

Internet auction sites (names withheld) are great for solving problems like this. One simply lists the vehicle with a few photos and in a few days time, someone shows up with some money, swaps it for the vehicle, and takes the problem away.

The recent replacement of parts does not guarantee that they are working properly.....I would disregard any recent repairs as not being suspect, and start from scratch with normal troubleshooting list....The head gasket and timing come to mind....so check compression of each cylinder, and timing next....

http://www.aa1car.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lec9pyBYk2I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8vSwfnX3Xc

2001 Cavalier 2.2 has a timing chain, not a belt.

Thanks. That rules out one possibility.

Not really.

I had both an Olds Delta 88 (350 CI engine) and a Chevy Chevelle (307 CI engine). Both had timing chains, steel, over nylon/steel gears.

Both of them SLIPPED timing (the chains had gotten loose, and in the case of the Chevelle, the Nylon rims of the gears had radial cracks from hub to rim) but both of them continued to run.

In those old engines (I don't know about the Cavalier) the piston-to-head-to-valve design was to create a Non-Interfering, or Clearanced Engine (so help me, that was the term in the handbooks of the day, and it was a LOOONNGGGG day ago that I had those cars. The Chevelle was in the early 80s, and had over 240K miles on it, and the Olds was a 79, in 89, with over 200K on it.) I fixed them both, and ran them for many more miles.

But they both had chains, and they both slipped. Neither broke completely.

All the answers so far are feasible and sensible though I am surprised that no one mentions fuel. Compression, spark an fuel all need to be in the right proportions and at the right time. I would check the timing, fuel tank (that thump could have been a hit on the fuel tank or a pipeline) and the compression of all cylinders. Also, you haven't mentioned the condition of the oil. Is there water in it. Two problem I have had was a stripped cam shaft gear so no fuel pump or valve rocking action and a slipped timing chain which still got me another 250 Kms. It was only when I cut the engine that she refused to start. You wouldn't read the full story in the Women's Weekly. any way, I hope this helps

It is so easy to check timing on most engines, that should be the first job to be done....

Nobody mentioned miles driven and eventually even chains get slack, you can hear them when starting sometimes....

My money is on engine timing of some sort, could even be the drive to the ignition distributor......but the valve timing also needs to be checked.....

Have you considered pouring the starting fluid over the car and setting it on fire?

How do you use a timing light on an engine that won't spark?

You'll have to do it the old fashioned way and put #1 Piston at TDC and check for timing marks.

She could use the light from the burning starting fluid!

Actually, it is possible that the engine sparks, but at a completely wrong timing, which doesn't start the petrol/air mixture burning!!

According to the OP in his very first post:-"I pulled all the plugs and there was weak spark to all of them."

So sparks ARE there!!

I think that his first action should be to get help (to turn over the engine on the starter for him), is to connect a timing light correctly and see if the engine is sparking at the right time, or not!

Doing this, on all the engines I have worked on, checks both valve and ignition timing as in my (limited) experience, the distributor is driven from the same mechanical system as the valve cam(s) are......

Now on a top modern engine, it is possible that there is no distributor, but I do believe this engine has one. But of course it may be driven from a different mechanical position.....

Best of luck to all concerned.....

By the way, is that the same car that was sold in the UK by Vauxhall years ago? Or is it just using the same name and nothing else.....?

Reminds me when as a teenager I took the plugs out to clean and gap them. When I got done, I asked my dad how to tell which plug wire went where. <end of story> Anyway, is there any chance the plug wires got switched?

No gaurantees. SolarEagle got it right in number 6.

I would disregard any recent repairs as not being suspect, and start from scratch with normal troubleshooting list

Since we can't, now, no who did what to whom, I think the only thing that makes sense to is to assume nothing is right, and troubleshoot everything. If it doesn't check out, put it on the list. If it is a lone problem at the end, it is THE problem. If two or more items are wrong, how are they related? Is one causative? If not, fix them all, and check it again. I'll bet it will surprise you how many things have been done wrong now, and how few people will admit to ever touching those things.

I've fixed a LOT of broken down cars that could only have been broken by the owner who swore that no one ELSE could possibly have touched it, and HE/SHE DIDN'T TOUCH THAT PART!

Goblins, I guess. But the only way to find and fix the issue is to start at the top and work down.

And don't believe anything anyone tells you, no matter how much you love them, or want them to be telling you the truth. Someone is, and someone isn't, and, really, what difference does it make who, or what, now, anyway?

Good point!! Should be checked!! That would give same/similar symptoms.

Thanks to everyone for all the constructive advice. A little thanks to the more humorous posts. Right now my direction is checking the timing. I wasn't eager to do it because the only way is to pull the timing chain cover which just to get off is probably a 2 hour job. And that is just to pull the cover. They have someone else who is a mechanic and after looking at the car checked his thoughts with his master mechanic and their opinion is that direction too. He actually told them he would be back yesterday to do that so I was hoping that would happen but then we got rain and it is supposed to be on and off for the next few days. I am still hoping he will get to them, but I am going to pick up the loaner tools from the parts store for pulling the pulleys and gears so I have them if I end up having to do it on Christmas or this next weekend. Thanks again for the help and Merry Christmas (or the holiday of your choice) to all!

Bob

An old fashioned timing light on plug #1 is quick, easy and very helpful!!

No strip down needed other than removing the HT cable to that #1 plug!!!

It will tell you that either both the valve timing (see my just previous post!) and the ignition timing are in the ball park, or not!

Quick and VERY easy!!

Sorry I didn't see your earlier post. A couple of points, the car has separate coils and no distributor. Also, as far as I know there are no timing marks anywhere on the engine. So are you saying that with the key in the run position, and the #1 piston sitting at TDC, the timing light should be on solid if the timing is correct? If so, that is certainly quicker than pulling the timing belt cover.

How can manufacturers make such problems!!!

To find TDC, remove all plugs, set cylinder #1 to both valves closed, gently with a screwdriver note the position from TDC that you notice a tiny movement down wards of the piston, mark each position on the bottom front pulley, against a fixed point on the engine.

Exactly in the middle is TDC, which will be close enough for government work.

If you don't want to look at the valves for any reason, place a thumb over the spark plug hole, when air pressure is pushed out, you are moving towards TDC, change thumb for screwdriver and work as before.

Replace plug #1 and put a timing light on plug.

Aim timing light at your new marks, it should light/flash just before TDC in the direction of rotation of course, when turning over with the starter...

The actual angle depends on engine manufacturer.

If approximately correct, engine should run, even if roughly....

I do not know about this particular vehicle but some cars have their timing marks on the flywheel. Usually a small hole covered by a plate is found on the bell housing. It might pay to look for them there.

Don't tell me, tell the OP!!

With or without timing marks, its still easy to find TDC....

Or, to extrapolate from your suggestion, can I set the engine at TDC, try to make some reference marks on the crankshaft, and then use the timing light while the engine is cranking? That should work, right?

Since the reference marks on the crank made by the manufacturer would be at TDC, that should work.

As a point of reference, from my earlier post about the Chevy and Olds engines with timing chains that slipped, the Chevelle chain was so sloppy that when I did the timing check in precisely this way, I could get it to run, though the timing "hunted" over a band of about 10 degrees, and it ran badly. But when I put the trans in gear (auto, 2-spd) the added drag on the engine caused it to fall backward on the timing marks, visibly, and die. Till I checked the timing with a timing light, I couldn't figure any reason it would idle, albeit poorly, and die as soon as I put it in gear, since it didn't have a tach, but my dwell/tach/ohhmeter indicated it was running at specified curb idle, when NOT in gear.

It was fascinating to me that you could actually run an engine with that much slack in the chain. When I pulled the timing chain cover, I gathered up the slack in the chain and pulled it off the gears BEFORE I unbolted and removed the gears. Then I found the cracks all the way through the gears.

Incidentally, that car was left to me by a family that was transferring from Virginia to California's Silicon Valley (about 3,800 miles, on way) so I'm glad they didn't try to drive it all the way out there. No telling where it would have died, and been left by the roadside. As it was, it was left by my driveway for extensive periods of time before I finally figured it out.

Do it once and do it right, and you are done. Check compression. Compression is a mechanical function of the valves being correctly timed with the crankshaft. If you have 90 PSI or more, your timing components are correct.

If that is good, check for fuel pressure. There is a small Schrader valve in the fuel rail that feeds the injectors. Take the cap off of it and poke it with a small Phillips screwdriver. If fuel sprays out, you need to check the signal to the injectors, or that spark you saw is not sufficient to fire the plugs.

If I remember correctly, it does not even "fire" with start spray......so fuel is unlikely to be the problem at this time!

The OP wrote in his original post:-

"I tried some starter fluid and still no sign of firing."

(Though it could be a later problem AFTER when the engine starts/fires on start spray.....)

There are basically three things needed for firing:-

1) Fuel or starter fluid

2) A spark at or close to the correct timing (assuming valve timing is correct, but that has still not been proved as of now!)

3) Air or Oxygen (assuming he is not passing out due to lack of them where he is working on the car!!) that is for me a given.

All Gas/petrol engines I have worked on over the last 53 years, assuming timings roughly correct, would start and run, maybe roughly, when fuel/start spray was was sprayed into the engine air intake, after the air filter was removed of course.

Some ran really smoothly!! See here:-

Start Spray on a Petrol Engine

OK?

Thanks for all the input. Just for closure, the problem was a failed Timing Chain Tensioner that let the timing chain skip some teeth. Finally got it fixed yesterday.

Bob

Par for the course I would say.

Thanks for letting us know.

Glad to hear that it is running again for you. Thanks for the reply.

For what it is worth. An engine that has had the camshaft timing jump because of a bad chain, timing belt, tensioner, or other related issue will usually turn over faster than normal. (because the starter is not fighting the compression) In some cases, it may be possible to use your hand to block all air from entering the engine while cranking the engine. If there is no vacuum, or suction, it is likely that the cam timing has jumped. Vacuum and compression are mechanical results of a properly timed engine. Because sometimes I just don't feel like carrying tools with me all the time.

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Thank for the tip about blocking air inflow. That never occurred to me in all the years I was working on engines. Just goes to show that one can ALWAYS learn something new.

I worked in a shop where the supervisor would not trust theory. Every timing chain installation had to be fired up as soon as the chain was on "to be sure" Once it fired, we could finish to assemble the engine. This was the same person that did not need to standardize on trailer connectors. Each truck had the number of the trailer it pulled, and each trailer had the number of the truck that pulled it.

If you really want to screw with someone's head, spray their air filter with clear paint. The absolute test for a bad filter is holding it up to a light.

Some days I can be such a bitch.

Some days?????