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Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/16/2015 10:10 AM

Why is this stairway / ladder designed like this?

Have you ever seen this type of stairway / ladder? This accesses a roof hatch.

The steps on either side are approx. 9" in rise and the stagger is approx. 4". There is not enough width to accommodate 2 people.

The inset picture shows the angle of the stairs.

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#1

Re: Why is this stairway / ladder designed like this?

01/16/2015 10:19 AM

I vaguely remember seeing this at another site that had access to a flat roof that had a designed walkway above. I was told but did not see it used that a specialized tool used the staggered steps to lift and lower heavy items through the roof hatch.

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#2

Re: Why is this stairway / ladder designed like this?

01/16/2015 10:23 AM

Probably, the builders lack materials and used the left over cuts. But it's way better than monkey ladders.

It makes easier i think when 2 people carry a bulky thing to the roof.

It seemingly fits the song that goes like " wherever you go, I'll be 2 steps behind you" - Def Leppard

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#3

Re: Why is this stairway / ladder designed like this?

01/16/2015 10:32 AM

I have found that using one side or the other is just like climbing a step-ladder or stairs however, with one foot on either side and ascending the stairway you ascend quite slowly and it feels odd to be ascending only about 4" at a step. Maybe it is for the purpose of carrying or lifting heavy tools or equipment? I have yet to find someone that has either designed or specified a ladder like the picture.

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#18
In reply to #3

Re: Why is this stairway / ladder designed like this?

01/16/2015 1:20 PM

This is a poor example of an alternating-tread stairway (or ship's ladder). As you note, the steps are much too small. One company that makes these is Lapeyre. I made one for the plant where I work. A Google search may turn up several architecturally beautiful and interesting examples.

(I responded before reading the intervening posts, which already mention all of this.)

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#4

Re: Why is this stairway / ladder designed like this?

01/16/2015 10:37 AM

sharper inclines. where the floor foot print is restricted.

Introlox (conveyor modular belt manufacturers) sister company Lapeyre has these, I'm not sure if they develop it or not.

quite a ride using them, hang onto the hand rails because its a cross between a ladder and a stairs.

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#5

Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/16/2015 10:56 AM

Alternating allows for greater tread depth do to the slope. Which in most case allows foreword facing descent.

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#9
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Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/16/2015 12:21 PM

I would have preferred to have seen Lego's though! Hell, I use my Lego's for a lot of concept designs. I even have pneumatic cylinders and pumps for them!

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#30
In reply to #9

Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/19/2015 9:29 AM

Those are Lego bricks, from the Duplo Line.

Duplo is safer for smaller kids (the smallest Duplo brick is too big to fit into a mouth and choke on), and for making models to be viewed by a crowd, the larger scale of the bricks works better, it can sit in the middle of a conference table and yet everyone sitting around the table can see the details clearly, They look like Lego bricks (which they are) so the change in scale tricks the mind into thinking of it as a 'zoomed in' view.

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#32
In reply to #30

Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/19/2015 9:39 AM

Thank you for the clarification. It has been a while since I have played with the DUPLO line.

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#22
In reply to #5

Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/16/2015 11:58 PM

I like that picture. It very clearly and succinctly illustrates the issue at hand with the slope and tread depth.

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#36
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Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/22/2015 4:51 PM

I like the green one. It highlights the fact that 50% of the stair tread is actually redundant!

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#6

Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/16/2015 10:56 AM

There are 2 buildings that have steps like this one, but one of the other buildings has a set that has the alternating step that is approx. 16" which makes an 8" step rise.

I'm wondering if this stair was supposed to have half as many steps?

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#7
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Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/16/2015 11:01 AM

the picture makes the stairs looks wide.... but sometimes, it doesn't pay to figure out the reason why.

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#8
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Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/16/2015 12:13 PM

I've heard these called ships ladders - but now I see them called alternating-tread stairs. Yeah, the treads in your picture seem to be too close together. 16" making 8" rise per step sounds better. They're a little weird at first, but they're ok once you get used to starting with the rightcorrect foot. And you can come down them facing outwards.

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#11
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Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/16/2015 12:49 PM

I prefer the Bat Pole myself.

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#12
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Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/16/2015 12:51 PM

Those things are so difficult to climb with a bag of tools in one hand and keys in the other!!

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#15
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Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/16/2015 12:56 PM

that's when the Bat lift comes in handy

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#17
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Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/16/2015 1:01 PM

That's right.

I forgot about the Bat Lift!

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#31
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Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/19/2015 9:31 AM

Didn't Alfred pin Ceaser Romero to the ceiling with those one episode?

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#10

Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/16/2015 12:46 PM

Lapeyre Stair-Alternating Tread Stairs www.lapeyrestair.com/products/atsAll.aspx ‎

Alternating Tread Stairs. The Lapeyre® Alternating Tread Stair features a unique
tread design which provides greater tread depth than vertical ladders or ship's...

see "how the alternating tread stair work" - can't append the picture.

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#13

Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/16/2015 12:54 PM

I think what I'm most curious about is the "extra" tread in-between the other treads. The 4" step up is an odd height!

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#16
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Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/16/2015 12:57 PM

so people don't 'fall through'

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#14

Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/16/2015 12:55 PM

space savings

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#19

Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/16/2015 1:23 PM

Try coming down a steep stairway facing out, and you'll see the advantage here....it's a lot easier if you have to use the stair frequently, and space is confined...

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#20

Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/16/2015 2:02 PM

Built with union labor.

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#21
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Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/16/2015 2:16 PM

Lyn,

On this, you are correct. The structure was built in the Las Vegas BOOM before it went "BOOM" and the development was all union labor.

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#23

Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/17/2015 12:24 AM

What is the recommended angle(elevation),width & height of steps in a stair for kids,elders,adults?.

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#25
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Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/17/2015 12:43 AM

In the U.S.A., OSHA standard stairs have an angle between 35 and 55 degrees. Rise + tread = 17.5 inches is an acceptable formula, but is not mandated. Other architectural guidelines also exist, such as 2R + T = 25 or 26".

Alternate-tread stairs can be steeper than 55 degrees. They, and spiral stairs, are OSHA-allowable only as alternative stairs after any mandatory requirements are satisfied via standard stairs.

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#33
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Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/19/2015 9:39 AM

"Alternate-tread stairs can be steeper than 55 degrees. They, and spiral stairs, are OSHA-allowable only as alternative stairs after any mandatory requirements are satisfied via standard stairs."

I've heard of a case, from the instructor who taught my 10-hour OSHA outreach class, of Alternate-Tread stairs being allowed as primary access when there is no space for standard stairs, by officially designating the alternate-tread stairs as a 'fixed building ladder,' with all the safety rules that apply, such as having to face the 'ladder' when ascending or descending. The alternate-tread stairs in the example lead to an 'infrequent access' storage room (aka the 'junk we're not supposed to throw away' room), so it was visited only once or twice a month, if that.

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#24

Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/17/2015 12:35 AM

I think iTS a self made stairs made from left overs

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#26

Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/17/2015 10:25 AM

As you get older, your ankles, knees and hips weaken, and taking high steps can be painful to extent that it could be difficult to climb ordinary domestic stairs. Replacing existing stairs with a lot more shallow risers but with the same tread width would only be possible with stairs designed like this. Notice the substantial double handrail.

But it could be for people with short legs - kids maybe - for access to a playroom.

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#27

Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/17/2015 5:30 PM

Alternating tread stair. We sold them at work for our mezzanines, but I can't remember what brand--the actual treads were I bit smaller and rounded as I remember. Rise height was the same both left and right. Name came back! La-Pyre, but I probably spelled it incorrectly. For use where you have limited space for the rise and run.

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#28

Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/17/2015 6:02 PM

Perhaps the key issue in stair design occurs when descending. The back of your leg must clear the step you are leaving, but the ball of your foot needs to land securely on the next step down. In this respect, too-small steps are almost worse than too-large steps. My town has some dumb contractor that makes 6" rise 8" tread stairs that are unsafe.

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#29

Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/18/2015 12:06 AM

They were originally called ships ladders because they took up less space, a very important factor on ships where more available space is valuable. Deck space not used for a regular stair or is usually either more commercial income to be sold or more offensive weaponry space in military vessels. They are also used where a steep ladder and one that can be descended facing away from the ladder is needed. On a vessel bulkheads and hatches are used. The hatch between decks for a ships ladder is smaller in area and requires less deck space for it vs. a regular stair way.

They now have other names that mean the same thing. Ships stairs. alternating step stairs, alternating step ladder, etc. The term ships ladder is now used to indicate a stairs/ladder with a riser of 9" to 11", a tread run of 4" to 6", and an angle of 50o to 70o. OSHA even has a standard for them https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=25301

and Oregon http://www.cbs.state.or.us/osha/pdf/pubs/fact_sheets/fs34.pdf

A Ships Ladder does not have to be an alternating step ladder. Some advantages to alternating ones are they can be descended while facing away from the ladder and tools, etc. can be carried easily while descending. They can be full width tread ladders that are also called Ships Ladders. They are harder to climb/descend and must be used facing the ladder/stairs.

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#34

Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/19/2015 5:39 PM
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#35
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Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/20/2015 9:02 AM

Those are some really nice designs!

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#37

Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

01/23/2015 8:57 AM

I have seen this type of ladder on ocean going vessels and I believe it accomplishes two objectives:

Uses less stairwell space to attain a higher distance objective.

Provides more stable footing by maintaining standard maximum tread height design.

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#38

Re: Why is This Stairway / Ladder Designed Like This?

04/22/2015 2:10 AM

space savings

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