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Pipe for use with Super Heated Steam at 400 to 500C

02/05/2015 2:25 AM

Can any one recommend a supplier alloy or specification for pipe to move ~.2Kg/sec at 4 to 500C 500PSI steam. Would like pipe rated 800C in case there are problems with loss of feed water or pulsation. I am trying to find 718plus or 720. Know of any suppliers?

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#1

Re: Pipe for use with Super Heated Steam at 400 to 500C

02/05/2015 9:26 AM

Above this, please read or see Products and suppliers section. Start from there.

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: Pipe for use with Super Heated Steam at 400 to 500C

02/05/2015 11:25 AM

I did, looked under SUPERALLOYS and only found bar sheet and coil. :~(

Any one know where to get pipe for this use?

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#11
In reply to #3

Re: Pipe for use with Super Heated Steam at 400 to 500C

02/06/2015 9:38 AM

Try google search of boiler tubing manufacturers, and look carefully at their specs as to tensile strength, yield strength, elongation %, and temperature limits. They will be happy to help you with figuring the pressure rating based on hoop stress, etc.

Do you work for Brillouin Energy Company? Outstanding! I have read their technical paper on the processes producing heat, I too am interested in this field of study. I also am working on designing my own pressurized reactor (not Brillouin style, as we do not use Q wave). I have no intentions of going that high in temperature and pressure, as I only want to demonsrate self-sustaining process with some net energy output. It seems like you are shooting for the moon here.

Who determined that need to go that high in P,T? You can get "reasonable" efficiency at much lower values that steels can handle. If worried about "hydrogen embrittlement", then you will need some fancy Chrome-Moly steels that are resistant to that. Boiler tubing manufacturers can help you, but you will be "safe" starting out with run-of-the-mill 316 grade stainless steel, and installing a safety to release pressure when/if the situation gets out of hand. Seems like your system is either a 1 or 0 based on what I read, so you also have the option of fast turn off/on as a means on regulation of thermal output.

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#2

Re: Pipe for use with Super Heated Steam at 400 to 500C

02/05/2015 10:34 AM

Internet searches will reveal piping distributors locally. Pick up the phone, and talk to each of them, and the correct alloy and piping spec for this job will drop out of the conversations. That is, if the correct piping spec is not already in the facility's Piping Standards; one presumes that these standards already exist and that is the correct place to start as it would be a rare thing for any facility to install steam piping without already having agreed on a piping spec on the basis of prior experience.

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#4
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Re: Pipe for use with Super Heated Steam at 400 to 500C

02/05/2015 11:27 AM

Problem is we are a start up. I am hoping some one who works at a place like that will provide the information I am looking for.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Pipe for use with Super Heated Steam at 400 to 500C

02/05/2015 12:17 PM

Why that should be a <...Problem...> is abstruse.

Pick up the phone and ask those people directly. It is far quicker and less random than waiting for someone on CR4, and those people have a much greater incentive to respond.

<sigh>

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#9
In reply to #4

Re: Pipe for use with Super Heated Steam at 400 to 500C

02/05/2015 9:16 PM

Sounds as though you need something which is relatively light and easy enough to work with so that fabrication in the field can be accomplished . There are suppliers . There are pipes available from specialty foundries , I know a few , designed for the aircraft industry . Usually , what you want to decide is what inside diameter you want , and what length you need to start with . The steelmakers and meta supply shops will give you a certain diameter tube , made out of alloys such as 1) Copper and/or Copper Alloys , easy to work with , temperature compensating , more or less , and easy enough to fabricate at site . 2 ) Stainless Steele tube , various diameters are available . I don't know your specific application , but I would turn to www.onlinemetals.com and see if your answer is just a little closer than phoning Pittsburg and bothering ten different steel foundries for a $100.00 purchase of stainless steel tubing , 3/4 inches in diameter . These people don't mind helping you . That's why they are in business .

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#6

Re: Pipe for use with Super Heated Steam at 400 to 500C

02/05/2015 1:33 PM

What you need to do is:

  1. Determine the pipe size required for your desired flow rate,
  2. Decide if you REALLY need such a high temperature rating- pulsation should cause a pressure, not temperature increase. How do you expect your boiler to reach this temperature without self destructing in the case of feedwater loss?
  3. Determine the required alloy (be aware that carbides in carbon steel begin to turn to graphite with extended temperatures over 775F; carbon-moly steels at over 875F and low chrome-moly steels above 975f).
  4. Determine the required pipe schedule from the calculated stresses for the given temperature/pressure combination of the selected alloy.
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#7

Re: Pipe for use with Super Heated Steam at 400 to 500C

02/05/2015 3:15 PM

You could try asking someone at a local college in your hometown...

http://engineering.berkeley.edu/academics/undergraduate-programs/mechanical-engineering

...that is what I would do, then they would probably tell me to call a pipe supplier...

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#8

Re: Pipe for use with Super Heated Steam at 400 to 500C

02/05/2015 3:42 PM

By the way regsoft, I hope you fail in your attempt to end carbon as a source for energy...I kind of like it for a lot of reasons...like keeping me alive as a carbon lifeform for an example of one.

No offense intended. Good Luck with the Pipe you need.

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#10

Re: Pipe for use with Super Heated Steam at 400 to 500C

02/06/2015 1:12 AM

‪ try this Incoloy‬ From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search Incoloy refers to a range of superalloys produced by the Special Metals Corporation group of companies. They are mostly nickel-based, and designed for excellent corrosion resistance as well as strength at high temperatures; there are specific alloys for resistance to particular chemical attacks (e.g. alloy 020 is designed to be resistant to sulphuric acid, DS to be used in heat-treating furnaces with reactive atmospheres and many heat cycles) Incoloy MA956 is made by a mechanical alloying rather than a bulk-melting process; it was studied for space reactor components in the JIMO project. It is difficult to weld and needs to be heated to 200C for cold-forming processes.[1] Compositions (percentages)[edit] See the PDF links for permitted ranges of composition Alloy name Balance metal Chromium Aluminum Titanium Carbon Yttrium oxide Copper Manganese Cobalt Nickel Phosphorus Silicon Sulphur Molybdenum Nb+Ti 020 [2] Fe (~40%) 20 n/p n/p <0.07 n/p 3.5 <2.0 n/p 35 <0.045 <1.0 <0.035 2.5 about 1 DS [3] Fe (~40%) 18 n/p 0.2 0.1 nil 0.5 0.8-1.5 18 (Co+Ni 38) 18 (Co+Ni 38) n/p 2.3 0.03 MA956 [1] Fe (~75%) 20 4.75 0.4 <0.1 0.5 <0.15 <0.3 <0.3 <0.5 <0.02 n/p n/p See also[edit] • Inconel • Monel • Hastelloy References[edit] 1. ^ Jump up to: 
a b "Incoloy alloy MA956". 2. Jump up 
^ "Incoloy alloy 020". Jump up 
^ "Incoloy alloy DS". Special Metals Corporation‬ From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search Special Metals Corporation, headquartered in New Hartford, New York, U.S.A., with operations in Huntington, West Virginia; Dunkirk, New York; Burnaugh, Kentucky; Elkhart, Indiana and Hereford, England, is a supplier of refractory alloys. Trademarks include Inconel, Incoloy, Monel, Nimonic, and Udimet. The company acquired Inco Alloys International from Inco in 1998.[1] In 2006, Special Metals was acquired by Precision Castparts Corporation of Portland, Oregon.[2] In November 2012, it was announced TIMET was being purchased for $2.9 billion by Precision Castparts.[3] External links[edit] • Official website • Special Metals Wiggin (Official UK website) References[edit] 3. Jump up 
^ The New York Times, July 10, 1998 Company News: Special Metals agrees to acquire alloys unit from Inco 4. Jump up 
^ Precision Castparts Corp. Completes Acquisition of Special Metals Corporation, May 25, 2006 5. Jump up 
^ Read, Richard (November 9, 2012). "Precision Castparts to acquire Titanium Metals in $2.9 billion deal". The Oregonian. Retrieved November 9, 2012. This United States manufacturing company-related article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it. <img src="//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" title="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;" />

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#15
In reply to #10

Re: Pipe for use with Super Heated Steam at 400 to 500C

02/10/2015 8:16 AM

Nice work, but -5 pts for lack of Sentence structure, Capiltalization, and paragraphs.

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#12

Re: Pipe for use with Super Heated Steam at 400 to 500C

02/06/2015 9:48 AM
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#13

Re: Pipe for use with Super Heated Steam at 400 to 500C

02/06/2015 10:49 AM
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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Pipe for use with Super Heated Steam at 400 to 500C

02/07/2015 5:02 PM

Can't really tell what you posted. Please just put up a link to the information.

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#16

Re: Pipe for use with Super Heated Steam at 400 to 500C

02/10/2015 2:51 PM

Well I have to admit that I am a little disappointed. After much searching on my own I have found the following useful information.

https://www.atimetals.com/products/718plus-alloy/background/Pages/default.aspx

scrol down to figure 3. Talking to some people at ATI I found the thing to actually search for is "ultra super critical steam" and the first company I have found that looks like it may actually carry pipe or at least tube is http://www.specialmetals.com/products#tubular. This company is apparently actually mentioned in dkisham's post but it is so difficult to read and the information is berried so deep in the post he gets NO POINTS! Dkisham, learn how to format your answers and you may actually help someone. I only found the mention in your answer by searching the page after I first made this post!

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: Pipe for use with Super Heated Steam at 400 to 500C

02/10/2015 3:05 PM

I suppose you didn't even try the link I gave you to search on your own, did you?

OH well.

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#18
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Re: Pipe for use with Super Heated Steam at 400 to 500C

02/10/2015 5:01 PM

Actually I had that link open in my browser but it got lost. That was a good link and I have passed it on to my ME working on the Project. BTW 718 is only good to 700C but http://www.futuremetals.com/ one of the first links has 750 that goes to 800C.

Thanks James!

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#19
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Re: Pipe for use with Super Heated Steam at 400 to 500C

02/11/2015 9:01 AM

These are wildly high temperatures for steam! Are you combusting hydrogen and oxygen inside the pipe to get to this temperature (hopefully with some dilution steam to attemperate the resultant super hot exhaust?) Is this down stream from some sort of nuclear reactor that does not involve boiling water in the core? Come on, you can tell us, we won't "rat you out".

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: Pipe for use with Super Heated Steam at 400 to 500C

02/12/2015 12:11 AM

Don't want to get busted again for mentioning my company on here. ;~)

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#21
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Re: Pipe for use with Super Heated Steam at 400 to 500C

02/12/2015 9:14 AM

Yes, that can be an issue. I understand the need for higher temperatures to get higher cycle efficiency, good luck with that by the way!

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