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What Happened to Personal Responsibility?

Posted October 26, 2009 7:46 AM

Recent articles talk about how simple Lockout/Tagout procedures can save more lives than expensive control systems. In one article, the author closes by asking the employer who they thought was to blame for the maintenance guy losing his arm. The answer? The machine designer of course, not the fact that they didn't have a LO/TO mechanism or procedure for the machine. In a culture dominated by liability suits, governments that bail out people, and companies that overspend, the question arises: What happened to personal responsibility? Does a person's word, intentions, and honor mean anything anymore?

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#1

Re: What Happened to Personal Responsibility?

10/26/2009 8:15 AM

Does a person's word, intentions, and honor mean anything anymore?

Unfortunately no, those things no longer mean anything! In a world where many will gladly lose a finger at work for a quick $50,000 pay out why take responsibility for your own actions?

It's going to take a judge with some morals to finally stand up and stop this crap. 50 years ago if a man lost an arm in a machine his employer usually paid all or part of his hospital bill then, when he was ready, found a place at the job for the man. Now most people go to work looking for that crack in the floor or loose step to fall over for the life of leisure.

I would rather work safely and eventually die with all of the parts that I was born with.

I just found this article (actually stole it from another thread) and it's pretty graphic. It explains a lot about the current thinking. People are ridiculous in their claims but I still blame the court system for even entertaining this sort of stupidity!

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: What Happened to Personal Responsibility?

10/26/2009 8:53 AM

Yuk!

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#4
In reply to #1

Re: What Happened to Personal Responsibility?

10/26/2009 8:15 PM

Clearly the dumb-ass was holding the drill the wrong way! He went side ways and not strait in.

All though maimed he still has the cappacity to reproduce and pass his stupidity genes on which means the world is still condemed to the possibility of his potential offspring doing simmilar stupid stuff as well.

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#5
In reply to #1

Re: What Happened to Personal Responsibility?

10/26/2009 9:03 PM

You say:

"It's going to take a judge with some morals to finally stand up and stop this crap. 50 years ago if a man lost an arm in a machine his employer usually paid all or part of his hospital bill then, when he was ready, found a place at the job for the man. Now most people go to work looking for that crack in the floor or loose step to fall over for the life of leisure."

The employers now do no more than legally required, and try to crawl out from under that. This is a street with two way traffic.

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#6
In reply to #1

Re: What Happened to Personal Responsibility?

10/26/2009 10:43 PM

The nose drilling story is not true:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/gruesome/drillnose.asp

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: What Happened to Personal Responsibility?

10/26/2009 10:53 PM

Sure now you say something and now I feel bad for the guy.

Unless he deserved it of course!

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#10
In reply to #6

Re: What Happened to Personal Responsibility?

10/27/2009 8:32 AM

Thanks for clearing that up. As I stated earlier I stole borrowed that bit from another post. I am glad to see that we haven't reached that kind of stupidity yet.

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#8
In reply to #1

Re: What Happened to Personal Responsibility?

10/27/2009 7:13 AM

You are ridiculous. See posting #6.

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#17
In reply to #1

Re: What Happened to Personal Responsibility?

11/07/2009 1:09 AM

pray god Mr. dumba.. er I mean Harleny winds up in front of an intelligent judge who fines him for bringing such an asinine case before the court... One reason I stayed out of law, I'd have him taken out back of my courthouse and shot for being an imminent threat to the gene pool!

There is damn little self responsibility in this country. I blame a government that eschews personal responsibility in exchange for continued parentage... when you turn 18 you are supposed to be taking on legal responsibility for yourself from your parents, now we just switch from Mommy and Daddy's care to Uncle Sam's and adopt this mantra... 'I don't have to be responsible, the government will take care of everything for me... that's why I pay taxes, so I can turn off my brain and watch garbage on TV'. To back up this statement I will utter one acronym... OSHA... there are many other acronyms that I could point to, this one is just too easy.

This is why there are 5 (I just counted them) warning stickers on a 6 foot ladder (not counting the 'not a step' warning on the 'work platform' (as I like to call it). As far as I am concerned no product for private use needs to have more than one warning sticker on it, something to the effect... "Don't be a dumb a$$, use at your own risk." If the product has a defect (either design or material) then clearly you have a right to seek compensation, but if you decide to be 'clever' and find a new way to use some tool then you are not using it as designed, as such you become the designer and must assume responsibility for any harm that comes as a result.

Many of you have already figured out that I am a frothing at the mouth anti-federalist, this in my opinion is simply the inevitable social side effect of too much federal government coupled with one severely dysfunctional education system (which is also largely the fault of too much federal interference as far as I'm concerned).

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: What Happened to Personal Responsibility?

11/07/2009 12:07 PM
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#19
In reply to #18

Re: What Happened to Personal Responsibility?

11/07/2009 5:22 PM

Wow, there's some wonderous hillbilly engineering to be found there! No offense meant to either hillbillies OR engineers... Great stuff, thanks.

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#3

Re: What Happened to Personal Responsibility?

10/26/2009 10:03 AM

Federal law in the US makes it the employer's responsibility, regardless of employee stupidity. Here is some info on assesssing your Lockout tagout system:

http://tinyurl.com/ygb2kbb

milo

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#9

Re: What Happened to Personal Responsibility?

10/27/2009 7:23 AM

Let's all just face it, we are rapidly moving toward an age of stupidity and entitlement like has never been seen before. You want to see the world 70-80 years form now if nothing changes? Watch the Mike Judge movie 'Idiocracy'. It's funny, disturbing, offensive and very scary all at the same time, but shows what we are moving towards, yeah!!

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#11

Re: What Happened to Personal Responsibility?

10/27/2009 9:23 AM

Unfortunately a persons word, good intentions and honor are only of value to another of good character. The tendency of our judicial system is to allow lawyers and juries to accept feeble excuses and place blame based on the accused party's ability to pay, which often rewards irresponsible people for their foolish actions out of sympathy. Seems like the majority now wants others to pay for their foolish mistakes (like a hot coffee spilled into the lap at Mc Donald's).

Product producers are responsible for providing reasonable safety guards and information for the safe intended use of their product. They can not and should not be responsible for every possible misuse of their product. A company using that product is responsible for training employees on the producer's and their intended safe use of the product (policies and practices). Again, they should not be responsible for every possible misuse or violation by an employee.

The final responsibility lies with the individual to learn, understand and follow the information, training and policies & practices of the producer and/or the company. Poor and foolish decisions on their part almost always have consequences for which they should take personal responsibility. We compound the risk of more accidents if we accept judgements that replace a lesson learned with sympathetically rewarding blame for profit.

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#12

Re: What Happened to Personal Responsibility?

10/27/2009 9:13 PM

What happened to personal responsibility? Does a person's word, intentions, and honor mean anything anymore?

Honor, Truth and Integrity can only exist in a society who honors a god to whom the citizens are ultimately responsible for their treatment of their fellow man. No god = no good. America is an excellent example.

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: What Happened to Personal Responsibility?

10/28/2009 6:30 AM

Firstly, would the guest at post #12 keep his religious rantings to himself, they have no place on this forum.

Regarding the personal responsibility issue, it must be obvious that we all, employers and employees take responsibility for each other. Thus, a tool without a guard must have the guard replaced.If an employee sees the tool without a guard then he must report it as faulty, it is no good using the tool for a month then suing for eye damage caused by flying swarf or debris. If he documents a report then the employer deserves a big fine if the fault is not attended to promptly.

regards

Chas

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: What Happened to Personal Responsibility?

10/28/2009 8:39 AM

Your irresponsbile reply to this forum is a perfect example of what happens to Personal Responsibility.

It is becoming a bad habit that this sort of uncharitable lashing-out goes on in society.

Before we "take responsiblity for each other" we must first take responsibility for ourselves.

Sow a good seed

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#15

Re: What Happened to Personal Responsibility?

10/28/2009 1:28 PM

One issue I have come to see that greatly reflects the personal responsibility problem is simply that when you have to take responsibility for your own actions people will often think that they look bad in the eyes of others for what it was they did. If what you do can be passed off on to someone else then you don't look bad because it wasn't your fault it happened.

Most people don't seem to see that personal responsibility is a honorable and respectable action. Yes its often a miserable and humbling experience but I see far too many people I think that could use being knocked off their high horse and and then landing on there ass a few times that would have that be a good experience and lesson to them.

I don't have any respect for those who pass off their responsibilities onto others so that they wont fell bad or think that they look bad. I also have no respect for those who take credit for others actions to make them selves look good either.

I am the one who's overall responsible for what I do good or bad rather than anyone else ever will be. Some days that means I have to fight to get credit for the good things I accomplished and other times I have to swallow my pride and take my lumps hard and heavy.

I feel what it comes down to is, basically if you where stupid or careless enough to do it no one else should be stupid enough to ever let you blame them for what you did.

If you made a bad product then your company is liable for it. If you made a good product and some dumb ass hurts himself with it by being careless or just ignorant of how to properly use it its his fault not the manufactures just because they didn't say dont use our product that way.

I am not rich, powerful, or of great resources but I am respected by my peers and at least try to be accountable for my actions of stupidity. I respect people who have the guts it takes to say I did something and I am responsible for its effects good or bad.

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#16

Re: What Happened to Personal Responsibility?

10/29/2009 8:55 AM

"Personal responsibility" is what the jury will determine against you for any plaintiff that found your sincere words, intentions, and honor were ....sincerely wrong.

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#20

Re: What Happened to Personal Responsibility?

11/07/2009 5:27 PM

The manufacturer of this 2x4 didn't apply a sticker warning against this use... when my gas tank blows up and knocks the board out and I get crushed by my truck I'm going to sue the hell out of the forest and then I can buy a new truck...

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#21

Re: What Happened to Personal Responsibility?

11/09/2009 3:33 PM

Well, someone already mentioned it, and was immediately attacked for doing so, but the poster is at least onto the root of the issue: If humanity is the result of uncontrolled natural forces and "survival of the fittest", the whole notion of "honour" and "a person's word" is largely in the realm of religious talk.

Personal responsibility is just that - I'm responsible for me. When it's clearly beneficial to me to also be responsible for you, then I will, but only then. This is bread and butter evolution. The question is, then, is it more beneficial to me to ALWAYS be responsible for you? What if it is not obvious how it benefits me? What if it even appears to hamper my own personal progress towards enjoyment and survival? Where does one draw the deciding line between personal advancement and advancement of the group or even that of another individual who one may not like or even have ever met? Most people often pick themselves over the group, and very often over another faceless individual, as soon as the balance appears to tip in the favour of personal gain.

How do we convince people that there is ALWAYS a personal benefit to looking out for the group, and/or other person, even when it comes at a personal cost that appears disproportionate. Historically, "fantastic rewards promised by religion" has been the tool of choice. What now?

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#22
In reply to #21

Re: What Happened to Personal Responsibility?

11/10/2009 6:18 PM

I disagree, in my reality the 'looking out for everyone benefits me' theory just doesn't pan out... 'protecting' that numbskull that can't figure out that swinging a running chainsaw around his head yelling yippy-kay-yeah is a good way to get permanently f'd up does not serve me in any way except to increase my risk of being killed by the same idiot swinging a different deadly implement.

Certainly it is the responsibility of a manufacturer to warn you of any unusual or unusually hazardous properties of their product. Crushing your skull because you fell 20' is not unusual, even (or perhaps especially) if it was off a ladder, to tell me that I should be held responsible to warn an adult not lean a ladder against power lines or not to use the belt sander to get his jollies is preposterous, whether I made the ladder/sander or not. Some people are simply determined to cause themselves harm, and I for one, callous as it may be, am not prepared to get in their way. I will stand on the sidelines and say things like 'you really shouldn't do that' or 'wait for me to get a camera so we can nominate you for the Darwin Awards' because the truly determined will only take you out with them if you interfere.

I'll take it a step further, coddling the perpetually stupid will ultimately weaken the species by robbing us of the innate awareness of our surroundings which allowed us to avoid getting eaten by lions and tigers and bears oh my, because common sense is nothing more than paying attention over time.

Don't let this attitude confuse you, I am at the same time one who believes very strongly in guiding people and teaching them how to properly and safely use tools to prevent injury to themselves and others. Often intelligent people do stupid things, I for one have performed innumerable acts of shear idiocy, but I was also prepared to accept responsibility for the consequences of MY actions and I never irresponsibly endangered others (at least not since puberty wore off), and that is all I ask in exchange.

If you stick a power tool in an orifice you should expect to have that orifice altered in some, probably unpleasant, fashion, and you deserve it.

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#23

Re: What Happened to Personal Responsibility?

05/04/2010 8:09 AM

I believe that personal responsibility can be defined very differently in different cultures, and that over US history some of those different cultures have mixed into our society and created a cloudy definition of personal responsibility. For example, I am married to a "latino" and she feels personally responsible for the way I look! She wants to decide if and when I need a haircut - because if I don't look good it is a direct reflection on her. Another example - if a man cheats on his wife, it's because of the other woman putting too much desire on him. He really can't be blamed for what the other woman did to him and how he reacted to that. Maybe these examples are a little off subject, but my point is that I was raised to understand I am completely responsible for my actions and any consequences I may experience from bad decisions I may make cannot be blamed on others. The issues seem to have become based on whether or not the employer or manufacturer took reasonable steps to "protect" their employee or the consumer from themselves. Can I reasonably blame my wife for me wearing a stained shirt to work? Can I blame my employer for not preventing me from tripping on my shoelace?

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