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The Bloom Box: a power plant for the home

Posted February 22, 2010 10:11 AM

From Engadget:

Those two blocks can power the average high-consumption American home -- one block can power the average European home. At least that's the claim being made by K.R. Sridhar, founder of Bloom Energy, on 60 Minutes last night. The original technology comes from an oxygen generator meant for a scrapped NASA Mars program that's been converted, with the help of an estimated $400 million in private funding, into a fuel cell. Bloom's design feeds oxygen into one side of a cell while fuel (natural gas, bio gas from landfill waste, solar, etc) is supplied to the other side to provide the chemical reaction required for power. The cells themselves are inexpensive ceramic disks painted with a secret green "ink" on one side and a black "ink" on the other. The disks are separated by a cheap metal alloy, instead of more precious metals like platinum, and stacked into a cube of varying capabilities -- a stack of 64 can power a small business like Starbucks. Now get this, skeptics: there are already several corporate customers using refrigerator-sized Bloom Boxes. The corporate-sized cells cost $700,000 to $800,000 and are installed at 20 customers you've already heard of including FedEx and Wal-mart -- Google was first to this green energy party, using its Bloom Boxes to power a data center for the last 18 months. Ebay has installed its boxes on the front lawn of its San Jose location. It estimates to receive almost 15% of its energy needs from Bloom, saving about $100,000 since installing its five boxes 9 months ago -- an estimate we assume doesn't factor in the millions Ebay paid for the boxes themselves. Bloom makes about one box a day at the moment and believes that within 5 to 10 years it can drive down the cost to about $3,000 to make it suitable for home use. Sounds awfully aggressive to us. Nevertheless, Bloom Energy will go public with details on Wednesday -- until then, check the 60 Minutes sneak peek after the break. (Click Read Full Story For Video)

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#1

Re: The Bloom Box: a power plant for the home

02/22/2010 6:11 PM

YAY - finally a power source that sounds too good to be true!

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#2

Re: The Bloom Box: a power plant for the home

02/22/2010 7:09 PM

The description they're giving of this product just doesn't add up.

" Inexpensive ceramic disks... cheap metal alloy... and secret "ink". Sounds simple and cost-effective...

but then... "Bloom makes about one box a day... within five to ten years it can drive down the cost to about $3000. "

This just doesn't make sense. The man in the picture has a delightful smile, however.

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#3

Re: The Bloom Box: a power plant for the home

02/22/2010 11:15 PM

How many volts? How many amps? How many therms/day of natural gas? How many $ right now? How hot does it get?

Why don't science "journalists" ask real questions, instead of just money and image? Yeah, still just the great wasteland.

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#4

Re: The Bloom Box: a power plant for the home

02/23/2010 12:44 AM

I'm skeptical about this one. For the eBay example $3.75M investment saves $133,000 per year. That's 28 year simple ROI. Not too impressive. But that number really doesn't mean anything.

What really counts is the efficiency of this technology in the mass produced consumer form when running on a fuel like natural gas. In other words cents per kilowatt hour delivered, which has to be enough less than grid delivered power to pay for the Bloom box and its installation in a reasonable period of time.

The obvious home use of this technology is for "peak shaving" when hot summer afternoon power demands are highest for air conditioning. Suppose a modern efficient residential air-conditioning system uses around 3000 kwh/year. If a 5KW Bloom box costs $3000 to buy and another $2000 to install (gas and electric connections, foundation, automatic transfer switch, permits) then the savings payback over 10 years should be $500/year or 17 cents/kwh produced.

Assuming the only time it pays to use the Bloom Box is when the high summer afternoon electric rates are in effect then the cost of fuel should be that much less than the cost of grid electricity. And that assumes the Bloom box is maintenance free for 10 years. So the question is back to efficiency. How much will the fuel cost for 3000 kwh of Bloom box power vs. how much the grid power costs? Then divide by 3000 to get comparative kwh costs.

So I'm waiting for Bloom Energy to start talking about their fuel cell net efficiency. Til then I'll be a sceptic.

Ed Weldon

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#5

Re: The Bloom Box: a power plant for the home

02/23/2010 10:59 AM

First, let me get a pet peeve out of the way. I can't seem to be able to read an article that deals with science or technology that does not seem to have at least one major error. You know, the type of error that a middle school student should have caught. I even see it in magazines that are supposed to be "technical".

This article is from "Engadget" which I assume purports to be a semi-technical media. And yet: "Bloom's design feeds oxygen into one side of a cell while fuel (natural gas, bio gas from landfill waste, solar, etc) is supplied to the other side" Since when is "solar" a fuel? The mistake was also in the original 60 minutes show. In fact, they even paused for dramatic effect when the interviewer asked if solar could be used as a fuel!

When the media does a technical show or article, can't they find one reporter that has taken junior high science? How about an editor?

Anyway, off the soapbox.

Bloom envisions one of these in every home. How would the natural gas infrastructure support this?

As others have said, $700,000/unit to $3,000/unit is a pretty big leap.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: The Bloom Box: a power plant for the home

02/23/2010 11:04 AM

$700,000/unit to $3,000/unit is a pretty big leap.

Not really - that's just a 700:3 ratio. We do that all the time in the military and space worlds - only backwards, of course. A hammer that cost $3 at Home Depot is manufactured in the many thousands, while a custom designed and manufactured hammer that you only make 12 of easily costs $700 each.

Oh - I think the "solar" fuel they're talking about is lightning bugs in a jar.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: The Bloom Box: a power plant for the home

02/23/2010 12:37 PM

bhankiii,

I don't know if you have ever done government work, but it's easy to see how this stuff happens:

The government has a requirement for an implement to drive a nail into a board. The contractor's engineer specs out a $3 hammer from a Home Depot supplier, and prepares the drawing. Adding profit and documentation charges, the hammer would cost $6 to the government.

The government QA guy, Mr. Covermyass, insists that first article testing is required before he signs off. First article testing is done at a cost of $60,000, and the hammer is approved. The government orders 10,000 hammers to be delivered over 2 years. So now the hammer costs $12 to the government, as part of a cost plus project.

In the second year, the hammer manufacturer improves the design by using a better metal alloy in the head. The contractor's incoming inspection flags the first shipment as not meeting the print. Since the change is an improvement, the contractor's engineer prepares a waiver/deviation document: "Does not effect form, fit, or function. Recommend use as is". The waiver is submitted to Mr. Covermyass.

Mr. Covermyass comes out of his office yelling that the contractor is trying to pull a fast one. "This is an unauthorized design change, not a deviation!" He refuses to sign the waiver. He insists that the drawing must be changed and first article testing be repeated to accept the hammers.

Since there is not enough time in the contract to do this, the contractor must go to specialty manufacturer to have the hammer made to the print. Because of set-up costs for the short run of this now "custom" hammer, the specialty manufacturer charges $700/hammer. Since it is a cost plus project, the government absorbs the higher cost.

Mr. Covermyass goes to sleep at night thinking how lucky the American public is to have such a good civil servant as himself to protect them from the evil contractor.

The next morning, Mr. Covermyass finds a drawing for a finishing nail on his desk for approval. He notices that the alloy is not called out. He mutters under his breath "Those bastards, they're trying to pull another fast one!"

Sorry for the rant. Too much coffee today.

Tad

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#8
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Re: The Bloom Box: a power plant for the home

02/23/2010 1:43 PM

My experience - 30 years worth - is not quite so bleak. What I typically see are situations were an off the shelf item just doesn't fit the bill. Maybe it's a wrench with an odd shaped handle to fit into an odd shaped bit of avionics. Maybe there's a requirement that the alloy not be brittle at temperature extremes, whatever. So the solution is to design a custom tool to do the job.

I've also seen cases where "Does not effect form, fit, or function. Recommend use as is" led to failure, since the guy deciding what the form fit and function was didn't realize the full intent of the guy who originally specified it.

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#9
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Re: The Bloom Box: a power plant for the home

02/23/2010 2:39 PM

I saw both sides as well, but I did see some crazy stuff.

We had a product that used ethylene glycol (EG), strictly as an antifreeze. It was mixed with 50% water before going in the product.

When the product was developed, the development engineer included on the print all the chemical specifications he found on the EG reagent bottle , including the specification that it contained <0.1 % water. Not a relevant spec, given the application. But, it was on the print.

As chemical suppliers became more sophisticated, they realized that there was no way to meet the water spec, as EG absorbs water from the air. So we couldn't find a vendor that would supply the EG with a Certificate of Compliance that it met the print.

My boss called in the government inspection QA guy, explained the situation, and asked to change the print. The QA guy was reasonable. He said he would not authorize a print change because it would would have to go through several approvals on the government side, which was always an expensive hassle, and that someone in the government chain might want cover their ass, and require a new first article test on the whole product (hugely expensive). He realized the spec was silly, and told us he did not care, just to use the EG without a C of C. He wasn't going to open a can of worms for such a stupid issue. As long as the product met the final functional test, he did not care about the cert.

My boss's position was that we can't violate QA rules on the inspector's word. If audited we could be found to be out of compliance, and open to recall of $200k of product or more, debarment etc.

Both sides were right, and would not budge. I was stuck in the middle.

My solution? We ordered the EG without the C of C. When it came in, our internal QA would give me a call, and I would go up and pull a sample. I took it to my lab, and poured it down the sink. An hour later, I would submit an analysis report certifying that it contained <.1 % water. It was then accepted by QA.

One day I'll burn in government hell, but I feel I did the right thing.

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#10
In reply to #5

Re: The Bloom Box: a power plant for the home

02/23/2010 3:17 PM

How about propane? People seem to like it. I'm currently living in an area where juice is about 1/3 the cost of propane but lots of the residents buy lots of it. It's got me scratching my head. Maybe some good old fashioned marketing would help sell the concept. Maybe people feel more macho or secure with large liquid explosive gas in their backyards.

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#11

Re: The Bloom Box: a power plant for the home

02/27/2010 6:28 PM

Thanks for the link. In England they are saying the item is loaf of bread sized, yet the specs show 10 tons. Is the US loaf of bread significantly larger than the UK model, or just heavier.

And it apparently accepts solar "fuel" this side of the pond as well according to the Guardian newspaper

If it only uses sand and paint isn't 700,000 dollars rather a lot, and if he is selling one a day, his paint supplier is getting rich and the local beaches are disappearing.

For anyone who has failed to buy the Bloom Box, I do have a few remaining examples of Brooklyn Bridge available on a first come first served basis.

Simon

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#14
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Re: The Bloom Box: a power plant for the home

02/28/2010 5:11 PM

Maybe they are talking about CSP when they refer to 'solar' ?

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#15
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Re: The Bloom Box: a power plant for the home

02/28/2010 6:18 PM

Brain has stopped functioning, what is CSP?

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#12

Re: The Bloom Box: a power plant for the home

02/27/2010 7:38 PM

Output: 100kW x 3412 Btuh/kW = 341,200 Btu/h.

Input: 0.661 MBtu/h = 661,000Btu/h.

Efficiency: 341,200/661,000 ≈ 0.52. That's pretty decent, if the numbers are accurate and verifiable.

However, this unit weighs about 10 tons, whereas a 100-kW genset would weigh about 1 ton.

No prices were given, but a 100-kW genset might cost around what, $8000? The genset would be less efficient and noisier, but lighter and probably smaller.

The tradeoff between initial cost and operating efficiency would need an economic analysis, which could be skewed if subsidies are involved.

Just an early impression, but it seems the jury is still out on this. I am disappointed at the amount of greenie buzzword marketing versus real engineering information, even if this idea proves to be a winner. I hope it succeeds, but I wish it would do so on better terms.

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: The Bloom Box: a power plant for the home

02/28/2010 2:54 PM

I suppose I was just annoyed by all the media hype. Good point that if it is efficient, quiet and affordable it is to be applauded. GA

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